Torah613Torah

TLIK: You keep on repeating that the blame shouldn’t be diverted AWAY from the yeshivos. In other words, aren’t you blaming the yeshivos? You immediately follow that up by blaming everyone. I’m confused.

Again, I agree that everyone bears some responsibility, including yeshivos. But by “yeshivos” do you mean Roshei Yeshiva, Menahelim, Mashgichim (or the lack of such), or the yeshiva system, or the yeshivish culture? And let’s say you do blame the yeshivos, what good does that do?

I am simply stating with full conviction that the defense of diverting responsibility away from yeshivos is irresponsible and blatantly false. We are all in this together, and we all share a collective responsibility to insure that every boy or girl has a yeshiva, school, program, and all needed services.

Isn’t this self-contradictory? We are all responsible. Not just yeshivas (or parents, or grocery stores, or grandmothers)

sw33t: To be perfectly honest, I have not been following the thread, but this post jumped out at me. I did not read your comments and they did not prompt this thread. That said, I am happy to see that you think that every child lost to the Jewish community is a tragedy. I agree.

pou_bear: I’m sorry the CR made you so mad. Please recall that this is from a Yiddishkeit perspective.

gavra_at_work: Not necessarily. There’s “honest” and there’s honest. ??? ?????? ???????

Veltz Meshugener: I agree that it is not all dysfunctional families. I know plenty of kids from dysfunctional homes who stayed on the derech, and kids from excellent homes who went off. I agree that it is far better than it has ever been (except maybe when the Bais HaMikdash was standing)

EzratHashem: Please let’s not drag shidduchim into every thread. (I was just giving an example of a BAD attitude. It is BAD to connect the issues of OTD with shidduchim.)

Gamanit: Agreed.

emunah613: Beautiful post.

The little I know: You obviously know a lot about this topic. I am impressed when you write that you are connected to 100s of kids.

I volunteer with people “at risk”, tweens, as a non-professional who helps them transition to professional help. I always emphasize that no matter what has happened to them, they have choices. Right now, they have to choose whether to face their anger / depression / academic struggles / social issues and make an effort to change, reach out to others, or they can stay unhappy, rejected, failing as they are. All eventually choose to make positive changes.

It bothers me that you blame parents and mechanchim. I do not think that they can be blamed for everything, and this only encourages the characteristic endemic of modern society of avoiding responsibility for one’s actions. Our job is to protect the kids as much as possible, teach them tools to protect themselves, and help them become constructive adults who serve Hashem in the way that is best for them.

Sam2: Are you saying we’re more responsible for the less smart kids, because smarter kids are more self-empowered?

Imaofthree: Amen.

WIY: There is no way to predict it (very similar to predicting who will get married first, actually.)

writersoul: Right, I’m talking from a Yiddishkeit perspective. Of course the most important thing is emotional health.

Veltz Meshugener: Thank you.

For example, if the kid is a drug addict, it’s obvious that his parents beat him. If the kid is at Harvard, it’s obvious that the parents let him read inappropriate books. lol

Ms. Critique who may always know the answers correctly

That is very sad.

The little I know: 2/4 I have heard in real life. 4/4 are variations of things I have heard in real life.

I agree with you that it is a community problem, but it is ALSO a family problem, and ALSO an individual problem. At the end of the day, every person has choices.

Here’s the litmus test. How much effort is invested by a yeshiva that rejects an applicant or refuses to permit a talmid(oh) to continue in their school? How many alumni maintain contact with their rebbeim and teachers long after they left?

Very good point,but not the only reason it is a single issue.

“Her sister went OTD? At least it won’t worsen the shidduch crisis”

“She went OTD and is now a doctor”

“He went OTD and is now a veterinarian in sub-Saharan Africa dying from AIDS”

“He went OTD and is now a drug dealer in Ukraine”

Can anyone tell what these have in common? They all bother me for the same reason.

Crisis: I feel that your post implies that we should not feel so guilty if a kid goes OTD and is successful, as we do when a kid goes OTD and hurts themselves.

The drones issue is interesting. DY – IYH I’ll ask a Rav.

Thanks to all the responses.

OOM: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/tzahal-sweatshirts/page/2#post-433568

I’m confused.

OOM: You deserve an infinite number of points, but due to my natural limitations, I can only give a finite number.

Now that I’ve thoroughly lambasted this book, I should note that I re-read relevant parts today (mostly Cantor) and the foundations are slowly penetrating my brain. I’m just developmentally delayed on this topic.

LOL OOM. (or SNORT if you prefer 🙂 )