Ah, whoops, sorry folks, missed that.

Here’s something from an individual who was a counselor and teacher at Camp Gan Yisroel of Montreal, Camp Gan Yisroel of Parksville, NY and Camp Gan Yisroel of Los Angeles:

“There is a song that we would sing with the kids every day, here is the chorus:

“The Rebbe is,
The Rebbe lives,
The Rebbe cares,
The Rebbe hears,
The Rebbes sees,
The Rebbe leads,
He is concerned for all our needs.

The Rebbe is,
The Rebbe gives,
The Rebbe sees,
The Rebbe speaks,
The Rebbe smiles…”

@SHY- Lol, I actually have no clue what book you’re talking about. Not only do I not know its name, I was entirely unaware of its existence until you introduced it into this thread. I still don’t know its name, and have certainly never read it. There’s enough history freely available without reading whichever book in question. I do find it funny, though, that you immediately decided to turn my comment into a personal attack. In the litvishe world, the fact that frumkeit was in shambles in prewar Europe doesn’t make us nervous. We are not them and have progressed well in dikduk halachah. I simply wrote, very clearly “as an aside”, which usually means “unrelated to the topic at hand, though nevertheless a valuable idea you may find useful outside of the current discussion”, because that’s what I meant. Y’all gotta chill.

What does remain true is that the atzmus “explanation/answer” given here is entirely insufficient, and as DY pointed, logically doesn’t follow, mima nifshach. Secondly, CS has demonstrated an extreme lack of understanding of basically every concept of Tanya she has cited, using crude mashalim and kinuyim out of context, which is why I stopped actually arguing with her. I suppose this is the chabad education system’s fault, trying to teach little kids about things way beyond their pay grade, resulting in an (assumed) near universal lack of understanding and ability to internalize the sefer later in life. Thirdly, no answer has been given to answer up the kol yachol sicha, and, what I think is really the most damning, besides the actual hiskashrus “hashkofo”, is that I’ve never heard one word of condemnation from any chabad rov on any questionable practice/belief. I understand that you may think the bais moshiach magazine is questionable at best, and I imagine your rov does, too, so why is noone outspoken about theses cuckoo publications? I’m sure the best and brightest have no problem putting pen to paper when a litvishe gadol writes a critical piece on chabad, as has been the case in the past, so why can’t they do the same if chabad is being threatened from within? Also, why do those weirdos/black sheep continue to hold powerful positions within chabad. In analytical, logical thinking, most of this points to one answer. That everything written in this thread so far has been classic evasion, and the answer is a lot more uncomfortable than you’d like it to be. After a couple weeks learning in one of the big brisker yeshivos, I coined a line, which I think is very appropriate here. “Ein kasha iz a kasha, und tzvei kashas is shoin a yesod mit a raya.” How very applicable.

@CS- I never said that, go back and check. as @DaasYochid pointed out, you haven’t really answered anything here.

@DY- I think you’re wasting your time-the defenders of the faith here are really only reinforcing what I think we all already knew, however politely you want to say it, their posts continue to confirm that they believe a man, dead at that, is simply more, blame it on his own words, expect us to swallow sichas whole, etc. No point.
@CS- If for nothing else, because answers certainly have not been forthcoming, thanks for clarifying my doubts; it’s not the moshiach monkey business that’s the issue, it’s the whole movement.

@sechel- You said “And the Rebbe watching you? Well people have no qualms saying that about their parents in Olam Haemes. If I believe my Rebbe has Ruach Hakodesh, he’s probably watching me to. And if he’s passed away, he can see me from Olam Haemes.”

First off, I do, and haven’t heard of being watched by my dead grandparents. If you can source this, it wouldn’t bother me, though, and do you know why? Because w/e mekor you’ll bring that neshamos can sit on the sidelines after death and watch their children means nothing practically. But the sicha quoted above must mean that the rebbe will be doing something for you up there, or why the heck else would you do things to help remind you he’s watching?? Why not think about Moshe Rabbeinu, or Yaakov Avinu, or the Taanoim and Amoraim, if all you’re looking for is inspiration. So he sees, hears, answers your requests…uh huh. Well played.

@DY- Please see the sicha I brought a link for, a couple pages ago, where the heintiger literally refers to the friediker as a kol yachol. Heck, since the mods let it through last time, I’ll just post it again.
Here: (starts at the bottom of page 162, continues onto 163; I don’t even believe there can be a rational explanation for this one.)
https://identifyingchabad.org/torasmenachem_1_162.pdf
https://identifyingchabad.org/torasmenachem_1_163.pdf

@EVERYONE-
CS said “Here’s the sources from the Rebbe about looking at the picture of a tzadik. You may have a different shita, which I respect. As for me, this is my Rebbe. From a class I teach (to lubavitchers) in the power of Sight. We go through how looking at positive things impacts a person and also the opposite.

ב. כל אברך שראה את הרבי, צריך בכל בוקר – לא משנה אם לפני ברכות השחר או לאחרי ברכות השחר ]נ”א: “צי פאר ‘מודה אני’ צי נאך ‘מודה אני’ “[ – ללכת לפינה, לצייר לעצמו את צורת הרבי, וזה יתן לו חיות לעשות את מה שצריך. )מיחידות שנת תשי”ב(

א. ציור פני הרב הוא ע”ד ובדוגמת ראיית פניו, שיש בזה עילוי לגבי לימוד תורתו, בדוגמת מעלת הראי’ לגבי שמיעה. )משיחת פסח שני תש”י(

ד. “וועסט האלטן ביי זיך א פיקטשער פון רבי’ן, און בשעת ס’פאלן דיר אריין די מחשבות – זולסטו א קוק טאן אויף עם, און ווי ער קוקט אויף דיר”. )מיחידות שנת תשכ”ח(

ה. “זאלסט האלטן ביי זיך א בילד פון דעם רבי’ן דעם נשיא, און יעדן מאל וואס ס’וועט אנקומען שווער זאלסטו אנקוקן דעם בילד און דאס וועט דיר דערמאנען אז דער רבי קוקט שטענדיק אויף דיר, ובמילא וועט מען קענען בייקומען די ענינים בלתי רצויים”. )מיחידות שנת תשכ”ט

ו. בעת האכילה – יהי’ מונח לפניך תמונה של כ”ק מו”ח אדמו”ר. )מיחידות לא’ שהתאונן ביחידות שאוכל ומתענג והוא בעל תאוה כו'(”

I this doesn’t close the conversation, I don’t know what does. Shivisi harebbe linegdi samid, anyone?

Honestly, shtelling tzu the Nefesh Hachaim is nutto. Maybe y’all need to understand what Shechina is in the first place.

@CS A tzaddik is not a revelation of Hashem. Moshe Rabbeinu was saying over nevuah, directly from Hashem. No other Navi in history has had that darga of nevuah…unless the Rebbe did?!
And again, you haven’t dealt with the heintiger referring to the frierdiker as in the room with us, hakol yachol,etc., as well as the widely available quotes of davening to the Rebbe after he died, and the Cunin video. Do you have an answer for the cunin video? Or is one of the top men in Chabad also one of the marginized, insignificant boreinu-niks?

Also, I’m randomly going to chime in here that I miss my old under-screen-name-description-thingy. Mine was funny, and now it looks like they’ve been nistalek. Bummer.

@chabadshlucha ” Which is why I don’t get hope toi thinks he’s learning more pnimius HaTorah than me – with no Chassidus….”

That’s funny. As if learning Kabbalah with chassidus is conventional, and people who learn Nistar with a Rebbi are innovating. In any event, enough posters have tried to explain where you guys are lacking, again, I’m done. Though, once again, you never even acknowledged the ridiculous things mainstream, accepted, powerful Lubavitchers say (Cunin et al). And I’m pretty sure I explained that one. It’s utterly crazy for you to quote Zohars and Tanya like your repeating basic arithmetic, using primitive mashalim to explain neshamos and where they originate, and ignore sichas that literally encourage a’z. Mod, I took out a dot, so it’s not technically a link, and it’s literally source material, I hope that’s okay. See this

https://identifyingchabad.org/torasmenachem_1_162 dot pdf and the continuation here

https://identifyingchabad.org/torasmenachem_1_163 dot pdf

When you can explain away how Chabad teaches that Rebbes are veritable gods, you can start expecting others to respect Chabad. Until then, you’re all chashud on a’z. Not my words, your Rebbe’s. As an aside, I have a new understanding of how deeply a tzibbur can be brainwashed- your inability to deal with these facts, trying to quote one line from any sefer and explain away an entire movement/religion of hiskashrus is mind boggling.

I have to be honest, I really thought this was going to be informative and intelligent. Seems like the less-than-basic understanding here, both of sources, and the depth of concepts being discussed precludes more discussion. What a letdown. I was going to start shtelling tzu the rest of that maamer, and the one where he calles the friediker rebbe hakol yachol and a whole bunch more godliness, but seeing as CS thinks her point has been proved with nothing other than the sicha that is a’z, I’m done.

@CS We are not questioning the Rebbe. What we are questioning are several statements he made, to better understand what those statements mean. I’m fine with an interpretation the chassidim give, but the interpretation must a) be given, b) fit with core beliefs in Judaism. The statements he made about the Friediker Rebbe, among others, need to be understood to be accepted, not taken as a given, perhaps not by Lubavitch chassidim (they can take whatever he said on faith if they so choose) but Jews from other sects would be in remiss if they didn’t attempt to understand those statements. If the Lubavitcher Chassidim cannot offer an explanation that shtims with basic, core beliefs in Judaism, how can you expect anyone to take those statements at anything but face value, which, you’ll excuse me, sound incredibly wild, and objectively considered, border on heresy. Again, please do not get emotional- what I have stated is, as best I can see, a fact, and I mean no offense. Can we accept that perplexing statements made by anyone are up for logical explanation in a way that fits with classic sources, be they in nigla or nistar? Or do some people have a carte blanche to say whatever they want, beyond question, and expect the rest of the world to believe it, as troublesome as that sounds?

@CS I’m entirely unfamiliar with classic Chassidic sources, and still have no problem with them being brought as sources; I thought it would be obvious that you can’t bring the Rebbe as a source if the validity of those ideas are in question. I have no problem with you clarifying who the Rebbe was. “Is” would be a bot more complicated, and probably more problematic, as he isn’t. Dan likaf zchus means that if you see something questionable and have no definite knowledge of the situation you need to be dan the individual lkaf zchus. It does not mean that when extremely problematic halachic issues have been raised, verified, and recorded in sichas, that you must ignore them. Again, I would appreciate an honest response explaining the troublesome sources, not beating around them with claims of fealty to the Rebbe. Don’t you think he’d rather you explain them and spread the light more than backing away with an lol?