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mdd-i already said. this isnt my position. i dont formulat emy own positions. the above is the opinion of previous and current gedolei hador. maybe what you and others here call their shitos and feelings are just that – feelings- and nothing more. you cant hope to serve Hashem to the fullest based on feelings alone. even if you really want to keep succos today and not in a few weeks, and you think it will make you close toi Hashem, you would obviously would be mistaken. in the same light (though i obviously exaggerated to make a point) the feelings youve developed for the state dont make it a part of yiddishkeit, as much as you wish it would. only what we are told by our gedolim to be correct and in service to Hashem is a valid means of serving him. so if they say yaharog vial yaavor im inclined to listen. and obviously i dont mean only the army. i mean the general idea of its validity. the jewish nation only has a right to be called that when we unite under the banner of torah. if we pointedly do not, which the medina seemingly doesnt make a priority, then how is this a jewish ideal? and i assure you, if canada would have tried to en-masse abduct children from a life of torah; from a life of having anything to do with Hashem, i’d oppose them too, even if they didnt claim to be the salvation of yidden.
tahini- i appreciate your understanding as not writing me off as a fanatic which seems to be a fad; especially to those who do nought but echo the words of geolim. if i can explain the reference, which, i assure you, was intentional, without anyone jumping to conclusions or automatically saying im downright nuts then i will. odds are that when it comes to these things people arent interested in listening. whatever misplaced love they have seems to over-ride logic and simple explanation. the argument is that if indeed this is the objective of the state, though no liberal-minded member here will ever admit that the actions of a 60 year old state from its inception till now would logically define its agenda, then in truth its worse then said referance. why? i preface that i do not in any way wish to minimalize what im referancing; rather, that the listener understands the gravity of what we’re dealing with. R”L, kedoshim beyond numbers to be apreciated were killed. that, nebach, was a dor that was lost, along with RYs and gedolim. after that, klal yisroel moved further into galus and started anew. B”H we’re witnessing today more learning, al kol ponim in quantity then ever. imagine though, if you will, what would klal yisroel look like if said medina was, in fact, succesful in promoting and carrying out its agenda. if youre convinced by 60 years of anti frumism as to what theyre interested in doing to the whole klal yisroel then that would mean the discontinuation of connection to real judasim and serving Hashem. in short, everything that gives klal yisroel a right to be the am hanivchar would CV”S be gone. goodbye. kaput. thats the pshat in the reference. im sure by now youve written me off as nuts, but i expected as much.
i hear your taanos. but in the real world your expectations are retarded. the first time shes too tired to put on makeup or her head hurts so no shaitel what are you gonna do? Divorce her? base your marriage on things that count. demanding heels is nuts. and theyre uncomfortable.
i think the demanding bochur thing is over exaggerated to make them the scapegoat but i agree on the prob. ive got a 30 yo cousin who went to hadar, makes loads of cash and is frummer then most people i know. and she cant get a date.
ya sure fire away
they cut off childrens payos and fed them pork on yom kippur. the actual finalization of the state coming into being was announced on the radio in israel on erev shabbos bein hashmashos. they plan beach festivals and pride parades. i dont know why more examples need to be given. the chazon ish held it was yaharog vi’al yaavor. do you have a bigger midda of hakaras hatov then him?? your sentiments are misplaced. the frum mks constantly have to fight the rest of knesset when they try to take away said stipends, which are only there in the first place to allow them enough olitical clout to further their own agendas. the chareidim are constanly villified. does this sound like a government and state that loves torah and the creator? how can you be so blind. these are all facts. why keep clinging to a false hope/dream thats spitting you in the face. i cant understand how thinking people ignore this. the state wants israel to be frumkeitrein.
women are more good….i dont know what that means. men and women are different. created so. the way Hashem created women doesnt make them “more good”. thats like saying a bird is more good then a cat because it can fly. theyre different. with different nisyonos, different needs, etc. im not sure how everyone is defining better…at making supper? or at farshtaying a R Boruch Ber?
im not sure what i said that the chazon ish didnt already. i find no need to defend the positions of gedolei hador. moreover, unless a malach or eliyahu hanavi came and told you otherwise im not sure where your chutzpa came from to disagree. in response to all your taanos- a secular, antitorah medina cannot be a good thing. theyre opposed to torah and mitzvos, and from my understanding, Hashem doesnt like people (or al kol ponim their actions) that go k’neged his torah. by extension i dont like them either. joining up with risho’im isnt good. theyre not doing you any favors, and if they are their intentions are to put you off from serving Hashem even if you cant see it.
cuz its a state bent on the utter nulification of serving god and doing what he commands. you want to defend them?
as grandma would say “I’ll stick to orthodox. mm hmm”.
all i meant was that its not all that far-fetched, and certainly not something that deserves a rant. i didnt mean to give it quasi-halachic staus. just saying its in the spirit.
title is misleading. people are judgemental. people stare. not gonna change. get over it
i stopped reading yor post in middle it was too long. but i hear the issue. when i was 21 i debated my mashgiach as to whether Hashem created the world. not that i doubted it; rather, that arguments being raised for were uncompelling. i did so because i wanted to but i did have to quiet a voice inside me saying not to cuz he might kick me out.
its tough to say it too, btw. at my own wedding a friend of mine two years my elder (considered an elter’ bochur) came over to wish me mazel tov. because chassanim give brochos i felt i had to give him a real sincere brocho for a shidduch. for the record hes engaged. (yes im a bal moifes.) do you know how hard it was to look him in the eyes at my own wedding? dcan you understand how guilty i felt that for me it was B”H easy and for him took forever? it really hurt. so dont think that all those brochos are given so flippantly.
i pointedly disagree with this post. duh. if the S”A says to be makpid on pas akum and these areas during AY”T then by extension being makpid on CY the whole elul seems appropriate. why the hating on fellow jews. troll
umen. i spell it vivdy.
ok open a new mehitza thread; this ones doomed
no
popa- having to listen to a certain someones diatribe on the US’ legal system.
what is she gonna learn new. no problem. she may as wel be prepared.
bais medrash. you get an oilam thats there to be clse to hashem, not close to a bottle of booze. minyan gal- music and hugging? what type of shul is that?
i understood from my rabbeim that the reason men dont generally wear cologne is that it usually smells like week old pizza.
ha.ha. fyi, all kollel fathers have the same interest and involvment in their childs education. most bochurim and yungerleit daven well b4 eight; i personally am up b4 seven. i also think its the exception of workers who manage to put in a schgedule you described ie wake up to learn an hour b4 davening. not to common. secondly, after shono rishona the average serious yungerman gets home around 11. he helped with homework and dishes in his hour long break between 7 hours of learning.
i meant the title implied one entity vs another. dude you gotta chill
i dont know why this post didnt get more hits. id ask that this doesnt become a holier then thou or ripping on parasites thread; just stick to the issue.
I think its plausable that a bochur/yungerman who learns seriously, all day, everyday, has a more rigorous schedule. day begins usually at seven endes near midnight and has 12+ hours of intense mind straining concentration. i appreciate that working 8 till 8 is tough too; believe me my father is a workaholic who often doesnt sleep nights, but i believe he is the exception not the rule. also, while work might not be totally enjoyable or fun at all, and total drudgery at times, anyone who is having a slump and still pounds through a complete second seder has worked herder then climbing everest. the yetzer hara doesnt mind if you climb everest. although most people who are learning enjoy it, it can still be extremely difficult at times to stay focused. if your working and only have two hours a day to learn i dont think this problem surfaces. i know im gonna be called a lazy behind along with the rest of my kind but please, try to stay on topic.
there werent that many people in kollel because it was physically impossiblr. soon itll be back to that.
actually shlishi theres a ton of aggadah on what the sword and bow mean and represaent and how klal yisroel use both. its generaly a metaphor for tefilla.
the orchas tyzdikkim says that the absolute most digusting thing is being drunk. i assue he means more then bartefoot.
i didnt say you were right, FYI. im just not well-versed enough in the netzivs writings to shlugg you up. and r shamshon r hirschs i am, but im goin to bed. and you didnt adress the end of my post. shtikah k….
when asked to go on vacation with friends i responded”can i bring my wife?” they asked why would you want to? so i replied “because i like her”.
i dont know why i go modded. linden is great but if the kid is academic it may not be the right choice.
IS- i dont know why you found my remark offensive. it is common knowledg (yes, i know this is the typical uneducated way of arguing but i have no koiach to start thinking its nearly midnight) that MO usurped certain gedolim of their positions and posited that they were MO, even when many examples of these gedolims positions are clearly at odds with MO. most notably the netziv and r shamshon r hirsch. im sure youll give me a long reply (if youll deign to, after all im but a kollel yungerman and maybe not worthy of reply) citing examples of how MO didnt skew their hashkafos and its the chareidim that did blah blah blah, thats ok. i just want to point out that id have an easier time convincing you that that toeva laws are within my rights more readily than learning in kollel, and thats a problem.
i dont know why people have to rip on others who keep cholov yisroel. they want to. theyre not telling you to. leave them alone. equal rights- let them eat what they want. dont get involved in hteir diet. and you can be all holy in elul in whatever way you want; so can they. get a life.
sometimes kids cant express their gratitude to their parents because its so overwhelming and al encompassing. it also can lead to resentment because the child feels so indebted to the parent; theres no way to adequately express themselves and so they kind of end up being distant so as not to feel like they owe so much. that could be a pshat here even if you dont think so.
im a shtick physcologist, what?!
washing tons of dishes is tough and theres nothing wrong with also being mechabed orchim
youre not going to marry your bashert because…lets get this straight…you didnt like her choice of foot apparel??she didnt come in sneakers! she didnt come in sandals! she came in shoes. what are you going to do the first time your wife weants to wear a snood in public- i know!! divorce her!!ya!! cuz your not proud of a snood; noo you need a shaitel!!this is the most ridiculous post ive ever seen in my life. i hope its just a troll im overreacting to-cuz your head is on backwards if its not. please dont be the single most unforgiving person ever to get married- it wont work out too well in the long run
ya a cousin of mine tried to convince me that moshiach is coming over the internet because it reaches everyone. i gave him one of those looks that kinds says drop dead, your pretty dumb
i dont understand. in communities where this is the accepted way of life the women are perfectly hapy; thyre not picketing in the streets to have people more modern then them liberabte them from their shakles. if people are content with theyre positions on certain issues, why do you have to enlighten them?? because YOU believe that your way is the only way. ironic; thats exactly what you accuse the kollel/yeshivaleit of doing
could the thread title be switched?
ya the netziv surely was MO. what happened to equal oppurtunity and rights – i want to try an dbecome TC and learn in yeshiva. leave me my rights and leave me alone.
theyre not bts. what shaychis
shteiger- i think if you took some ESL courses your posts might be easier to understand; by extension, you would have an easier time being able to formulate and express a coherent arguement.
i was. after it all my mother told me the most brilliant thing that she did. being as im the oldest all my younger sibs looked up to me. without me ever knowing (cuz i wouldve reacted beyond strongly) my mother used to tell the kids-we love your brother unconditionally and he’ll always be part of the fam but what hes doing now is wrong and you musnt learn from him.it worked on them. if they know that youre good to go from every angle.
bad bad bad. get a rov to talk to him. dont let it continue. he’ll thank you in the long run and marriage is the farthest thing from his mind. and if its not- its still wrong.
maskm- after marriage is adarker road. nebach that this had to happen but B”H now then later.