Thinking out loud

Shimon Nodel
RE: “They had it 1000 years ago” Can you explain? Who had a registry of all Jews? Other than the Nazis. IF the inquisition (I am speculating), attempted to make such a list of the LOCAL definable Jews, that was not 1000 years ago. What are you referring to?

Have you ever heard of the “Smartlist” App?

You do all realize that this exact message is going around currently on Whatsapp, right? I received it twice already. And apparently it’s at least 10 years old, based on this thread!
These things to NOT make people focus on meaning, Yiras Shamayim, or anything else. They promote cynicism, and distraction from the appropriate response to an Eis Tzarah. And that is the fault of whomever started this thing….

@csr1
Forgive my long reply, but if you read it fully, you will see where I have directly addressed your posts.

Tisha B’av is indeed a day of sadness and mourning. We have a mesora of how to spend the time before chatzos, focused completely on the churban, and its devastating impact on our lives throughout galus. We do this by reciting kinos, painful, emotion laden dirges, written by our leaders referencing the details of the destruction of the Bais Hamikdosh, the dispersion of Klal Yisrael into galus, and the terrible tragedies we have experienced throughout this long galus.

At chatzos, the tone changes somewhat. Although we are not supposed to distract ourselves from the mourning that is the essence of the day, we are PERMITTED to do other things as needed. I don’t know the source, but there does come a time in the day, where we talk about the future, teshuva, and hope for a return of the shechina to Eretz Yisrael, with the coming of Moshiach.

Chazal tell us that in any generation that the Bais Hamikdosh is not rebuilt, it is as if that generation is equally responsible for its destruction as we were at the time of the churban. In other words, we need to make changes in OUR lives, in the areas that we have been told would have prevented the churban, and as it follows, can reverse it, and lead to the return of the Bais Hamikdosh, and the open manifestation of the Shechina, with the coming of Moshiach Tzidkeinu.

Some people are able to maintain the focus on the enormous tragedy of our continued exile by learning parts of Torah that refer to galus, and its causes, or reading intense, painful books and stories of the terrible things that have happened to our nation as a whole, even in recent times. An example of this would be books describing the violence of the crusades, the fires of the Spanish Inquisition, and most recently, the horrors of the Nazi holocaust.

For many, it is difficult to maintain that focus for an entire day. Others, due to the physical burden of the fast itself, find it difficult to learn, or even read. Being that some activities are permitted after chatzos, they become distracted from the meaning of the day altogether. It is these conditions that have prompted some organizations to create programs that focus on mussar, and self introspection, with the goal of encouraging us to make the changes necessary to bring geulah. It is a different, less intense way to stay connected to the severity of our remaining in galus.

This galus is said to have been caused by “sinas chinam”, which is translated as BASELESS hate or disregard for other observant Jews, because of perceived imperfection, or simply because of (non-halachic) cultural differences. Over the years, events have been organized, to provide excellent lectures on the topics that are appropriate for Tisha B’av, specifically improving our interpersonal standards as required by Torah. These live events feature talented speakers who educate, and remind us of our obligation to do teshuva, and thus hopefully precipitate the coming of Moshiach and the Geula. In addition, there are masterful video presentations available, geared to acknowledging such shortcomings, and hopefully inspiring us to change our attitudes, and behaviors, with the same intended goal, of making us worthy once again.

In more recent years, there has been movement to challenge us to recognize that the overwhelming loss of Jews to intermarriage, is equally as tragic and devastating as the murder of our brethren. This is a unique tragedy to our generation. Millions of Jews are either intentionally, or due to circumstance, ignorant of our heritage, and thus almost guaranteed to sever their ties to Judaism. This reality has been referred to as a Spiritual Holocaust. Each individual who cuts himself off, also cuts off untold numbers of potential descendants from Torah observance. Their right of passage to Eternity is being lost forever. This dire situation should disturb us as much as any physical threat to our brothers.

There are individuals who have been attempting to wake us up to this reality, recognize it for the tragedy that it is, and INSPIRE us to care about our brothers, and ACT before they are lost forever. In an effort to impress the seriousness of this message to us, video presentations have been created to be shown on Tisha B’av, highlighting the lives and activities of individuals who recognize[d] the severity of this threat, and did not sit idly by while other Jews are being lost. The intention is to sensitize us to this form of destruction within our nation, and inspire us to act accordingly. The loss of masses of Jews to assimilation, is also an example of epic destruction to our Nation, and should be no less disturbing than the holocaust.

The message is: if you could save just ONE Jew from a train headed to Auschwitz, would you? If you can prevent the termination of just ONE Jewis family’s ETERNITY, how can you not?

For those who can maintain their awareness throughout the day, continuously mourning, and feeling the profound tragedy of our continued exile, such videos may be considered somewhat of an entertaining distraction, and perhaps should be viewed at a different time. For many others, such videos assist in feeling appropriate distress of our current Galus, and hopefully inspire them to care, and make a difference. In this way, Tisha B’av afternoon changes from a time of mindless distraction to meaningful inspiration for change that will hopefully bring the Geula. Individuals ought to be honest with themselves about what is or is not going to keep their attention properly focused on the sadness of Tisha B’av.

searchin345:
Please don’t attack me for not providing a sources, I’m not as learned as many here.

If i say something halachic on a forum, then i definitely have heard it from somebody who is clearly a talmid chochom, and baki b’ halacha. In this case i can’t remember who it was, but it made a roshem. Generally, i am more of a skeptic.

Maybe everyone else knows this , but
I have only recently learned that Yashan in Eretz Yisrael is not a chumra.

Outside of EY, it is still considered a chumra to refrain from chadash, because there are significant chilukei dayos haposkim of whether it applies. I don’t think there’s much disagreement that eating only yashan is REQUIRED in Eretz Yisrael. That applies to food that grew there, AND [If understood this correctly] also to food that you bring in, if you’re going to eat it there! (The sandwich you didn’t end up eating on the plane). You do have the option of holding on to your (crackers?) and eat them once you have left the holy Land. And… food that is chodosh, that grew in E.Y. has no special requirement to be avoided outside E.Y. (unless of course you are following the chumra of eating only yoshon outside of E.Y.)

If you are frum, you are quite likely to have learned that there are special halachos that apply to food in E.Y. As a Torah observant jew, if you go to E.Y., it is up to you to prepare, and learn how to follow the halachos that pertain only to there. You should find about them from the outset, or immediately upon arriving there.(You probably DO make sure to check the weather forecast before you go, not leaving it up to chance!). It shouldn’t be up to the OU to notify you that INSIDE E.Y., you must eat only yoshon, no matter where it comes from. For such issues, kashrus is highly dependent on how and where a product is consumed.

Regarding milk powder, Rav Moshe Feinstein’s psak about chalav yisroel affects how we look at the issue. For those not in the U.S.A., it is a far different matter. There apparently is strong reason to conclude that although chalav yisroel is non-negotiable (outside of the U.S., where Reb Moshe’s psak has any significance at all), milk powder as a substance is changed so drastically in the process, that for some reason it no longer requires to be of a chalav yisroel source for some reason – I don’t remember the details.

The Torah says to do Teshuva one day before you die. And since one does not know when he will die, it means he should do teshuva every day. If a person lives with that kind of cheshbon hanefesh, his death will be neither sudden or untimely. A life well lived, where each day is meaningful, ends at the exact time that the neshama has completed its tafkid on this Earth. Whether that is old or young. Suddenness can be a bracha: Happiness and joy up to the abrupt end. And very little suffering, if any. It is for the surviving family that shock is very painful.

Than being said, living every day with a cheshbon hanefesh, includes utilizing the gift of life fully, which includes taking care of one’s health to the best of their ability.

I am adding this note, just in case this thread was started as a reaction to the news of a “sudden, untimely” death:

Please be careful to be sensitive to surviving family members. It is highly inappropriate to imply that a particular death could have been prevented.
1. Only Hashem knows all the facts
2. Even if you know facts, you don’t know all of them.
3. One can not judge another’s degree of hishtadlus, and whether or not that had an impact on when they were niftar. Some reckless, unhealthy people have outlived some very conscientious, and health minded ones.
4. It is ona’as devorim to question the health, or behavioral decisions of a niftar in front of his/her surviving relatives.

May we all be blessed with long, healthy, and meaningful lives!

I would also like to add, a person with Narcissistic Personality Disorder will not likely go into treatment…. by choice. However, due to things they may do that hurt others, they may end up in mandated treatment. Apparently, there are ways to slowly have an impact, where the person can (with much difficulty) recognize that they do have a problem. What I said above, is that maybe getting to a place where they recognize that they have a problem at all, is the goal of treatment. There are approaches that have worked. There are many approaches that do not work at all. That much I know. But again, NPD is not a DX that I have personal experience with. I do have first-hand experience with a number of other diagnosed mental health conditions.

I would like to qualify one of the above posts that refer collectively to personality disorders. I do not personally know anyone who has been diagnosed specifically with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

However, I DO know people who fit the criterion and/or have been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. In a different thread, I assertively disagreed with a poster who stated as a fact that BPD can not be “cured”. I have since been in contact with one of the foremost professionals who specializes in BPD. She clarified, that often when people are describing a person with Borderline Personality Disorder, the person they are referring to ALSO has Narcissistic Personality Disorder. This detail may explain the difference of opinion and experience I have with Borderline Personality Disorder. People who fit the criterion can definitely recover, and overcome most if not all of the symptoms with a mixture of various approaches. It is very hard work, and every step is heroic. A person who is in the process of recovery deserves a lot of support, respect, and inclusion.

If they have co-existing Narcissistic Personality Disorder, I do not claim to know the dynamics, or how one might recover from that. As a frum Jew, I find it difficult to believe that something that is truly a personality disorder can not be improved upon with the proper approach. But we are using terminology that does not clearly describe biological realities. We are using terminology that was created by humans, to describe a particular group of behavioral symptoms. Only Hashem knows where a person’s nekudas habechira lies at any given time. Maybe for some people, the nisayon is just to recognize that there is something to fix. That recognition may be a tremedous avoda in itself! (meaning it will take a considerable amount of time and effort to just acknowledge that there is a problem). And maybe that is what Hashem wants from them.

Also, I would like to second the poster who explained that treating an emotional/mental health problem allows the person to get to a place where they can THEN learn mussar, and apply it. Ironically, the people that I have encountered who have worked very hard to overcome emotional dysregulation with therapy, are already practicing actual mussar concepts; they have challenged previous thoughts and behaviors, and systematically use particular skills to CHANGE their default responses.

However, had they gone directly to a mussar sefer, the effort would have likely backfired. The first thing they would experience is guilt, self-blame, hopelessness, and other non-productive emotions. Their issues would likely get worse, and the mussar would not be able to be internalized. Because the part of the person that can integrate mussar is not functioning properly! Professional intervention is indicated for healthy function to either resume, or possibly to begin for the first time.

“The mashgiach is probably paid by both organizations, when he comes for one, he knows exactly whats going on, on behalf of the other as well”.

Is it likely that yochy, who has a hechsher on his “place” doesn’t know that the mashgiach works for both hechsherim?
If that is the case, does the mashgiach look for “extra” or “more” details than yochy is expecting from the national hechsher? If the standards are the same, the mashgiach is just getting paid double for doing nothing extra??
Or, perhaps, the “heimishe” hechsher serves as a “clearing house” for products with the national hescher, for their constituency. Maybe they are stamping their approval on the national hechsher’s standards in this location, because their constituency has certain standards, and they are letting them know that those standards are being met by the national hechsher, in this particular case?

For example, if they are makpid on bishul yisroel for tuna fish, and the national hechsher isn’t, but in this location, only tuna fish that is bishul yisroel is being used, and the rest of their standards are in sync for this type of place, they will put their stamp on it too.

Or it’s a bunch of nonsense, in which case, the problem with the heimishe hechsher is even bigger. If they are playing games, than they are not trustworthy altogether, no matter what chumras they hold from! I hope not.

Moderators: Did most of my post get deleted?

To yitzymotcha: my heart goes out to you. The frum world is in a cocoon when it comes to this. In the outside world, most people meet and develop a relationship before it ever occurs to them to consider marriage. A strong relationship leads many to marry people with whom they know that life may be challenging. Whether it is Mental Illness, early onset Parkinson’s, Multiple Sclerosis, Type 1 diabetes, or a genetic problem in their family. Because they really want to be with that person. It’s WORTH it to them! In our world, the system, for understandable reasons doesn’t lend itself to that sort of situation. I am close enough to this topic to be quite well-informed. If I can give you some chizuk, this is what it would be:
1. Hashem is really, really in charge. He has given different people different nisyonos. I’m sure that you have some very special qualities. My assumption, based on some of what you’ve written, is that you know yourself, perhaps better than many others know themselves. Which lends itself to a refreshing sort of honesty, and reality based approach to life, and perhaps also to your yiddishkeit. My hope for you, and one that YOU should daven for, is that at least one… (and you only need one!) young woman will meet you, and find your individual strengths so worthwhile, that their response to your revelation will be… things like “How does that work? How does it feel? How would it affect me? What would I/could I do to complement who you are, and what you struggle with?” This would be a person who has already seen that you have very special qualities that would benefit her life, and that she is attracted to. You will be “WORTH” it to her! If she is really listening, because she wants to understand you better, you may be surprised at how impressed she will be with the strengths you have developed. She may even say “You seem so “normal”, I didn’t know one day I would meet someone who could truly understand my own triumphs over adversity!”
I have seen it, and I have spoken to Doctors who have seen it. I don’t know the “right” shadchan for you. I know ultimately Hashem orchestrates shidduchim.

2. There is currently a program in Cornell for especially dedicated to treatment of pregnant women who have emotional dysregulation in their history. This is a program dedicated to successful, productive outcomes in building a family, for individuals who are on medication, in therapy, and are high risk for mental health problems during and after pregnancy. I am mentioning this, despite your being a male, as an example of what some educated people out there believe, and what they are doing about it. It is possible, and it is doable, and it is reasonable for adults with challenges to have and raise healthy children, given the proper approaches, support, and reality checking that is necessary. If these medical doctors and therapists didn’t truly believe that, they would not have such a program. They would be referring people to “family planning” resources, as well as clinics to simply “get rid” of the “problem” as early as possible. (It would be inappropriate to use explicit terminology on this board).

3. I know a woman who is currently in that program. She has very mild asperger’s, bipolar disorder, AND borderline personality disorder! Really! She takes medication, and has done a lot of therapy, and continues to do more. She is constantly growing. Her husband loves her for everything she is: A deeply caring friend, an incredibly dedicated partner, a smart, capable and proactive, solution oriented person, and so much more. Why did he marry her? Because they dated for many months, over which time he got to know her well – and can’t imagine life without her. But what about him? Well they were introduced because they have common interests in the area of emergency medicine! Guess what: like most people, he has plenty of “issues”. Ironically, his have never been diagnosed, because apparently they never got in the way of his functioning as a bachelor! But he is a very devoted, responsible, loving person, and she is very attracted to him, and appreciative of how he treats her. Often, she has more insight into his “mishugasin” than he does. But she sees him as a whole person, who comes with strengths and weaknesses. As we all do. He has learned how to keep things real during her times of distress, and she has learned to tolerate and/or redirect the focus, when it is necessary for sholom bayis. And they keep learning!

As a friend, I am amazed at their relationship: How they go about their life together, the ups and downs, and the incredible commitment they each have to the other – and to their marriage. They are constantly doing things – small things – specifically to make each other happy.
They don’t sacrifice – they invest!

4. Many years ago, a young man was a guest for Shabbos in my parents’ home. He had come from a distant country for the simcha of a close friend. His wife and 4 children stayed behind. Due to a bunch of circumstances I ended up driving him to JFK airport after Shabbos. Somehow during that trip, this gentleman revealed to me that his wife suffers from major depression. She takes medication, and sees a therapist. To paraphrase HIS words, “this is a nisayon that Hashem has given US. I am glad that I did NOT know before, because I shudder to think that in my ignorance I may have turned away my zivug, the love of my life. I didn’t know because She didn’t know.” Apparently she had not yet had a major episode before they got married. Being that I do know more than the average frum Brooklyn Jew about mental dysregulation, I asked him how it has affected him. His answer: “I am much closer to my children than most fathers. At times that she was unable to be there for the children, I stepped in as father AND mother. I have explained to them that Mommy loves you very much. but that part of her is not working correctly right now. She will get better. Let’s daaven that it is soon. And the rest of the time, we raise our children together. I just wish she suffered less”.

He did not sigh. He in no way presented as carrying a heavy burden. He was far from pitiful. I must add that due to his geographical location, he is not “handicapped” by the limited vision that seems to be common in the frum community in and around New York, where I live. He said a lot more, (In his delightful accent), but as I mentioned in my first paragraph above, I hesitate to share more information on this forum.

I believe that Hashem orchestrated that this man stayed in my parents’ home, and needed a ride at the last minute, at least in part so that I could see what is possible. So that further down the road, I would be able to give chizuk to those whose mental health challenges are known to me.

(In no way do I mean to insinuate that anyone should hide a serious detail in their life from a potential shidduch. Deceipt destroys trust, without which a marriage is not viable. One should look for signs that the potential mate has the backbone and skills to deal with his/her personal problem, and then share the challenge intelligently, paying careful attention to the response. Rejection hurts, but it also protects you from someone who is not right for you.)

Where there is capacity for deep pain, there is also capacity for deep simcha, deep compassion, deep connection, and deep love. Some people really value that.

May your tefillos: spoken and unspoken, be answered for good very soon. Forget about statistics; Hashem works with each of us in a personal, individual way.

Perhaps this is worthy of a new thread, but for now I’m posting it here. Maybe it’s not a bad thing to go off topic for a bit…. in order to help people more intelligently communicate their opinions or thoughts!
This is a pet peeve of mine, based not in perfectionism, but in intelligent communication:

Tznius is a noun!
It is not an adjective.

To use it in a sentence:
a. Tznius is a good trait. b. One can have a discussion on proper dress, and proper behavior. That would be a discussion about Tznius. c. The topic in which we review, or teach, the Torah’s approach for proper presentation of ourselves in a way that does not attract attention is called Tznius.

A noun is a word used as the name of a person, place, thing, state, quality, activity, action etc… The word Tznius is an abstract noun. (the name given to a quality or action or state which we can understand but we can not touch and see.) Other abstract nouns are hunger, and altruism.
A person can not be Tznius, just like a person can not be hunger or altruism.

An adjective is a word that describes or modifies another word; usually a noun or another adjective. If we want to describe a person in any way, we need to use an adjective. In this thread, posters are trying to describe themselves or others, as having the trait of tznius.

In Yiddish an adjective was made out of the noun, using Yiddish grammar: That word is “TZNIUSDIK“. Tzniusdik is a word that DESCRIBES either a person, or a behavior, or a type of clothing.
A person can</can> be Tzniusdik Just like a person can be hungry or altruistic. (adjectives)

In Hebrew one would say that a person dresses or acts “Bitznius” (with tznius). There IS a descriptive noun in Hebrew for one who dresses or acts in this way. That person is a Tzanua צנוע (male), or a Tzinuah צנועה (female). The person would not be called a “tznius”.

It seems like the current generation has an aversion to using the Yiddish term, but they have not replaced it with an English one! I suppose it would be reasonable to say “I act or dress tsniusly” (an adverb describing the verb act or the verb dress). However, that term hasn’t taken off as of yet! I haven’t yet found anyone who has properly “Englishized” (my own made up term) the word tniusdik. Instead the Hebrew noun tznius is being used incorrectly as an adjective,

For those of us who typically use proper Grammar, hearing a noun used incorrectly, or as an adjective distracts from the subject just as much as this post distracts from the topic of the thread!

You may think you are not particular about grammar, but If someone said to you “I am Science”, instead of saying “I am a Scientist”, I’m pretty sure you would correct them! They are both nouns, but only the second one can be properly used in that sentence, with the word “a” before it. The sentence “She is tznius” makes no sense. Grammatically, you could say “She is a tniusist”, but that word hasn’t taken off either.

Furthermore, If someone said “He is hunger” instead of “He is hungry” you would likely correct their use of a noun (hunger) in place of an adjective (hungry). Otherwise, you would lose track of the rest of their thought, as your mind gets dsitracted by that incongruous statement. (How can he be hunger?)

I have not come up with an Englishized word for the Yiddish term tniusdik. which means “has the characteristics of tznius”, and is an adjective according to Yiddish Grammar.

hunger is to hungry as
tnius is to tsniusdik. But that is Yiddish.

Modest, modesty, and modestly, are used by some, but they do not quite translate the Jewish concept of tznius satisfactorily! Can someone come up with a grammatically correct English ADJECTIVE derived from the Hebew noun tznius?

Until then, your language will be more intelligible if you just use the Yiddish adjective, instead of incorrectly using the Hebrew noun as a description!

Can someone tell me how to access my profile and change my password?!

Yes, Lilmos Ulelamaid, you are correct.
Thank you.
Yiras Shamayim should be done with Joy.

I think I mixed up the two, because the “movement” to serve Hashem with Joy these days, often mixes the two concepts.
Love sounds more joyful than Awe or fear, or trepidation. There are songs that seem to mix the two together. Perhaps it is more accurate to say, that often those who are singing and dancing (sometimes in the streets) that it is a mitzvah to always be happy, also seem to be focused on Loving HaShem (whatever that means to them). It just sounds “lighter”.
I was addressing that.

Still you are 100% correct. They are NOT automatically linked. Yiras Shamayim needs to be lived with Joy. That takes a deeper understanding.

Fascinating fact:
If a person did proper Teshuva in this world – from Yirah – the negative act literally disappears. And if the person did proper Teshuva in this world – from Ahava – the negative act actually is transformed into a Mitzvah. This is not “logical”. But it is part of Creation. Teshuva had to be created separately, because it defies all of nature. (How can you change the past? You Can!!)

The following are things I learned, which at the time were well sourced. I did not make up any of this! I do not remember the sources, but perhaps some of the more learned people here can identify those sources:

Another approach is that Gehinom is an experience of intolerable deep shame and regret.

In this world, we are subject to time, as well as other parts of creation that mask the perpetual reality of Hashem, His Light, and our only purpose for being here – to do things that will make us closer to Him (read: s’char – reward). We have opportunities here. Once our time is up, we separate from the limitations of our bodies, creation in this world, and all other “things” that only exist in the world as we know it when we are alive. Those things may have served as a mask to the full Glory of Hashem, and His Omnipotence, causing us to at times choose things that did not bring us closer to Him. All at once, (there is no time outside the creation that we live in), we are faced with where we ARE, compared to where we COULD have been. It is crystal clear to us. And we can no longer do anything about it. The shame and regret is beyond what a living human being can fathom.

note: those of us in this world, who were in ANY way affected by the Neshama that has departed, CAN do things HERE that can affect that Neshama. The mitzvos, Torah learning, Kiddush Shem Shamayim, etc. that we do has a direct impact on “compensating” for the lost opportunities. That is why we say Kaddish for the first 11 months, and why children, students, or acquaintances deliberately do things for the Neshama to have an “Aliya”. After the first year, the yahrtzeit serves as a time where the persons’ life is again under “review” of some sort, and is a date on which we can, and should do things that give the Neshama an Aliya.

This thread has changed topic unfortunately, and I hope for everyone’s sake, that we find a way to get back to the more lighthearted spirit of the thread.

That being said, I do have a comment that is both an innacurate thing we [may have] learned as kids, as well as my 2 cents regarding a person’s inherent value. It really deserves a thread all of its own:

Many people, some of whom I am very close to, were taught as kids that they in fact do not have worth. It could have been through direct emotionally abusive statements, or indirectly, by implication, as their primary caregivers gave that message in their invalidating interactions.

As disturbing and untrue that belief may be, it is sadly at the heart of emotional difficulties for many people. What we are taught as kids on this topic is critical to our development. We BELIEVE our primary caregivers, because they are the initial providers of our realities.

It can take a lifetime of therapy to challenge such a destructive belief successfully. Logic, or proofs from the Torah are usually not enough to override such a deeply ingrained handicap. It is incredibly powerful. Even sadder, this belief, when expressed to, or perceived by others, often results in rejection. It’s not pleasant to be around someone who constantly puts themselves down. And so the negative belief develops into a life in which it is routinely reinforced as the truth!

If your early life experience gave you a message that you have worth just because you exist, do not take that lightly. It is something to be very grateful for. Not everyone received that message.

Only Hashem knows why some people are given this nisayon, which impacts almost every interaction they experience.

There is help out there. It takes a lot for a person to even recognize that what they consider a fact, is really an unfortunate learned belief, and it may be helped with therapy.

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<attempt at topic redirection>

“reprinted” from another thread,

Inaccurate thing:

a bungalow colony is called a country!

There are currently a number of community based telephone directories that are distributed in certain areas of Brooklyn. They are for-profit publications supported by commercial listings. There is usually an attempt to include a reference section, with random useful information. In one of these directories, a section for the Catskills is included. One of the lists in this section is titled – I couldn’t make this up – Camps, Mikvas, and Countries!!!

</attempt at topic redirection>

bump

It is my understanding that pidyon shevuyim trumps all other causes. (Is that true?). I donated to this campaign. The trial was supposedly postponed for 2 weeks.

Does anybody know what happened since then?