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thank you anonymous for answering my call so quickly and proving my point so eloquently!
Any other balah batim could help me out here as well!(just a side note – you really beleive any any gedolim would be opposed to blocking traffic to protest if people were murdering frum people by the hundreds or do you just not believe the gemara that it is worse to cause one to sin then to murder him or does your das bala bayis argue with the this das torah that causing chareidy youth to go into the army is causing one to sin>? or do you not believe the army statistics that the rate of service by chareidim has gone up due to their aggressive campaign to get weaker chareidim to join? (not that it makes a difference just wondering what goes on in the mind of an antichareidy whose obviously not the brightest knife in the drawer)the answer is ofcourse all gedolim agree in such situations you can block traffic all of them at times when they felt that was the best way to prevent spiritual destruction in this situation some gedolei hador think this is a way to stem the destruction and some dont a bala bas’s opinion on the web just strengthens the opposite side
clarification:
i have nothing against balah batim, i happened to be one myself (or else i wouldnt be waisting time on the web) but thats why i dont express personal opinions on matters that gedolei hador disagree about.every balah bos is unbeleivably holy and needed in klal yisroel!
just the question a torah jew asks is what is hashems veiw on the matter and that we can only know from gedolei torah our natural is usually off as hashem says כי לא מחשבותי מחשבותיכם ולא דרכיכם דרכי
so all we have left is to listen to the gedolei torah (or the balei batim and figure out whats the oppisite thats why when gedolim argue balei batim need to speak up dont be shy we need you here)apushatayid – good point just be clear “they” is one little kid” out of tens of thousands of bnei Torah! please explain then bhow we could be upset when antisemites say all jews are thieves because of bernie madoff?
Yekke2 thank you
dont know about story but the halacha is decided by the sema in shulchan aruchshout out to all balei batim: please voice your opinions being that the gedolim are split we could really really use them
dont worry about giving the chareidy world a bad name. Only people who ignore the actions of tens of thousands and instead judge them by the actions of a little kid will thing bad about them and those people probably think all jews are thieves anyway because look at Bernei Madoff
no need to worry noone with a little brains thinks that way despite the instigation by anti religious news outlets – See more at: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/ywn-videos/1245936/watch-this-violent-peleg-yerushalmi-protesters-kick-and-beat-woman-call-her-names-until-rescued-by-cops.html#commentswho am i to decide which gedolim are right. i see big gedolim who were both praised by the gedolei hador of previous generations as gedolei olam taking differant sides on the way to deal with these matters.
However in truth there are 2 ways to find out what is da’as torah.
1) what the gedolei torah say.
2) what bala batim – who aren’t chachomim say.
Why? because the Sm”a in Choshen Mishpat says that דעת בעלי בתים הפך דעת תורה because Hashem says כי לא מחשבותי מחשבותיכם Hashem machashavos are differant then the natural thought process of mankind only through the study of HIS Torah day and night for many many years can we begin to understand the correct approach of Torah.
in this situation method 1 to reach daas Torah is split for there are gedolei olam on each side however method two seems to lead to a clear conclusion. amongst people who are engrossed in torah all day i see a split in opinions but a see all the people who dont learn and all the people who never felt they must follow exactly what the gedolim say in so many other situations – they all seem to be on one side…
i cant stop laughing when i see people who have no shaychus to torah emphatically stating there personal veiws on matters the gedolei hador disagree over – when will they realize that whatever they say is just strengthening the opposing veiw…
if they want to support their opinions they should pretend they support the opposite side…
there’s a famous story about two of the greatest gedolim of the last century Rav Meir Simcha the ohr samei’ach and the Ragachover Gaon. they had a big argument and could not come to an agreement so they decided to ask an someone who was unlearned in Torah and who ever he would say like the other was really correct…