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Sam2: Ha, no you didn’t.

You said “Interesting. Regardless of how good the idea is, I feel like this is an actual violation Min Hatorah of “Eichah Ya’avdu Hagoyim Ha’eileh Es Eloheihem”.

Avi: “The Mishna Berura says (124:27) that shul police should be appointed to preevnt this. The Kaf HaChaim says (124:37) that they should be given many punishments and embarrassed in public”

+1

So anyone can just learn in advanced, take the test and is a Rabbi? That is a little scary. I guess they should make smicha standard if they are already doing this. That anyone who goes to yeshiva should by default take the test and get smicha.

Perhaps people do not know the history of acher. He went off the derech in part because he listened to non-Jewish Greek music when he was in yeshiva.

No cop outs, I always have sources to what I say.

Sam2: Of course there are sources. He was not mattir it stam but in many situations he was mattir it. It was not a blanket hetter of course. Now, I have read many of your other posts. You are the type of poster that will simply never stop no matter what the other person says or what sources you are shown. I do not have the energy or time to get into a long debate with you here. So I will not be responding to you anymore (at least I hope not). as it will do no good. Kol tov

oomis: Also, you missed the punchline of the joke. It goes, “my father was a Kohen, my grandfather was a kohen, I want to be one too!” Then the Rabbi says, “well, in that case, maybe for $100,000 we could make it happen.”

I think a more accurate parallel is being proud of a specific yichus that rov people cannot lay claim to than being Jewish (the later being open to all).

Nevertheless, my argument was a halachic one.

“Why would she want her family’s special status questioned?”

But for someone to claim that they are inherently superior to their neighbors and more close to G-d when it is not true is perfectly fine?

Yes, what motive would she have…..

I do wonder why oomis, being the daughter of a Jew who claims to be a Kohen, would have a “vested interest in this”. Being that she has no marriage restrictions as a bas kohen, why would she look at it any less objectively than any other Jew.

DaasYochid: Thank you, that is correct.

oomis: Sorry, but that is the reality. In fact, we do have it both ways. We indeed often allow for room in difficult situations because of this: Both in cases when it is difficult for a Jew who does not claim to be a Kohen and for a Jew who does claim to be a Kohen.

This is not thread for this topic though.

HaLeivi: “very profoundly about how we are different than the western culture in that we give inherent value to deed and externals.”

What are you talking about? Christianity along with all religions lehavdeel puts emphasis on deeds and externals. Have you ever walked into the Sistine Chapel? Most Christian organisations lehavdeel put more emphasis on deed than Judaism does. Judaism says talmud torah kneged kulam while other religions focus on acts of kindess and charity instead of prayer. That is why we say tzedaka is a lower form of giving then fasting and davening is. If you read Chovos Halevavos you will see that the ideal is to not be physical but most people in society need the psychical.

The nature of most people on a low or average spiritual madreiga is that they need the lofty spiritual to be accompanied by the lofty physical. That is why an “ugly” kohen cannot do the avodah. The average non-ideal person unfortunately needs an attractive kohen to do the avodah and not an ugly one to have respect for it.

Do not confuse the necessary with the ideal and spiritual-superficiality with physical-superficiality.

“Even if he held it was a safek, we clearly don’t pasken that way, as we are satisfied with one, and we say a brachah.”

We are not satisfied with one. We just don’t have any other choice. Many poskim say the modern day “kohen” should give the money back, even lechatchila, because it is very likely he is not truly entitled to the money as he is very likely not a true kohen. Today, it is even vastly worse than it was 200 hundred years ago regarding who is and who is not a kohen with the entire BT movement- some people mistakenly think they can just look at a gravestone and if engraved within them are are the iconic Kohen hands will say “great, I’m a kohen” and they mistakenly tell their kids this and on goes the cycle.

Regarding saying the bracha, this is no problem at all. The poskim ask how can it be that modern day “kohanim” are allowed to say a bracha since they are very likely not true kohanim. We say that safek brachos lehakel does not apply to a birchas mitzvah.

Anyway, I will say it again, this has next to nothing to do with the asker’s question and is not the right place to address this topic.

Sam: of course kohanim today are not true kohanim. We don’t give them chala today for that reason. The rest of things kohanim do is only minhag. So suddenly after 200 years they magically became kohanim again according to all poskim? Of course they aren’t.

This question is rather silly. You can ask such a question about everything in the Torah. That fact that a blemished Kohen cannot duchen is problematic to you but the fact that a Levi or a woman cannot duchen is not problematic? The entire concept of kehuna is not a Meritocracy to begin with, it is passed down from father to son. So why does the superficial suddenly bother you?

(btw, today our kohanim are in nearly all cases not true kohanim but that is a topic for a different thread)

Daniela: How does what I say further your point? It is completely contrary to what you said.

sw33t: I assure you my statement was in no way intended to attack you so much as what you had passionately professed. Regarding your statement: there is a fine line between disagreeing and disrespecting them by calling what they say “ridiculous”.

I agree with the others here that flaunting these luxuries and even purchasing them leads to harm.

What is wrong with giving tochacha to klal yisroel about this? I do not understand.

“For when one regards their elegance and dignity, it is impossible that his lust will not be awakened to desire these things. And even if he will not permit his evil inclination to conquer him, he will, in any event, not escape the battle and its dangers.”

Seems to me this alone is a raya why people who buy luxry Gucci shoes and luxry cars should be rebuked. They will undoubtedly cause others to either spend more hours at work to attain such vanities or engender within them and their wives and children envy. Mesilas Yesharim says it is IMPOSSIBLE for it not to. So if not in order to give more tzedaka, this alone is of sufficient reason.

If you come to my seder I will tell you.

Lakewood fellow: “No, you were, and you called me a liar for disagreeing with you remember?”

I agree, that is a good point.

Health: -1

Lakewood fellow: +1

As secular as Israel gets orthodox Jews will always have a step up there over other countries because while they are secular they are still biologically Jewish and we share a common history and heritage. That will always count for something.