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flowers:
There are medical professionals and there are medical professionals. The ones I know are ethical, professional, and dedicated to their work. They receive the same fee for the office visit whether they prescribe or not. They are fully aware that medication needs to be required before prescribing. They are cognizant that all medications have side effects, and they are also aware that the knee jerk reactions to prescribe are sometimes bad guesses. Those are the ones I know. They have established the diagnosis by evaluation before intervening. Perhaps you are acquainted with those that lack these basics in professionalism and medical ethics. I do feel bad for you, and hope you receive your medical care from the ethical and moral ones I described above.
It is legendary that health care professionals, especially in the mental health field, differ in their diagnostic impressions. I have yet to meet a psychiatrist who prescribes solely on the assessment of any other professional. Of course, the referring therapist has input. But to accuse the physicians of not doing their own evaluation is a serious allegation. Again, there may some that are lacking in their professional ethics. Those are the exceptions.
Lastly, it is true that psychiatrists will focus on the need for medication, and not concentrate on the parental roles. It is assumed that this was addressed earlier. But they are not ignorant of it. Have you ever made a referral to a psychiatrist? What does this doctor ask you while accepting the referral? If he/she is worth their salt, they ask all these questions.
I should call attention to your insinuation that the “parents caused it”. That’s remnants of the Freudian approach to psychology. While the concept has merit, it is overblown to drastic degrees. It comes from the drive to blame someone else for the problem instead of addressing the individual and helping them in whatever manner is effective to overcome the problem.
flowers:
Sorry, but your comment is irresponsible. The mental health field contains a wide variety of professionals with many different levels of involvement with different populations. Not all those who work with children are working in conjunction with the prescribing physicians, and not all are making specific recommendations. It is professionally prudent for these non-physicians to make observations and share them with a prescribing physician. yet the doctor remains in charge, and must be capable of performing a suitable evaluation. Collecting observations from teachers, family, and other professionals is part of the picture. You cannot broad stroke these professionals as the wolf guarding the coop.
The point is the basic definition of tefiloh. And that is discussed extensively throughout Torah sheb’al peh. From Shas through midrashim, from the basics of sifrei Rishonim throughout the rest of our history.
Firstly, the purpose of tefiloh is NOT to inform Hashem of our needs. He already knows our needs better than we do. But He does want us to speak to him several times a day, and to place our bakashos before Him – He wants to hear us. Tefiloh is all about connection, and the content of our tefiloh is secondary to that. How many tefilos do we utter every day without understanding them? Or grasping them only superficially without getting anywhere close to the deep and profound kavanos that are embedded in them?
The sugya is vast and deep. And it would be a valuable undertaking to explore this to the degree possible, both for us to be able to approach tefiloh better, as well as the meriting the zechus of transmitting the precious value of tefiloh to our children and talmidim.
GH:
It’s terrific if the encounter is considered casual and mechanical by all players. But that’s not always the case. I have known people who seek to casually have such encounters that appear to be fully innocent, but, at least to that individual, are not.
Any Rov can only pasken the shailoh asked. It is a task to ask a shailoh correctly. I have encountered countless situations in which a particular psak was questioned, and it turns out that the there was information that was either distorted, withheld, or misunderstood. The ideal Rov recognizes the role of the one inquiring, and persists in verifying details in order to deliver the most emesdige psak. In reality, even the greatest can be duped.
I have personal knowledge of a shailoh that elicited a serious psak from Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT”L. The question posed contained seriously erroneous information, and there were huge stakes. (I cannot say more without providing identifying details and causing huge embarrassment to several people.)
Rav Moshe forbade the rav who lied to him from ever contacting him again. There are other ways to manipulate Daas Torah. It’s a huge chilul Hashem, and is a disgrace to all of Klal Yisroel.
Johnklets:
I am talking al pi Torah, not modern psychology. I will recommend you to peruse the library of authoritative compendia of mesoros from the great leaders of our current and recent generations. First, read what they say. All of them are far more knowledgeable of chinuch “al pi Torah” than either of us can claim to be. Check out what they say. Then we’ll resume our dialogue. Everything I said until now was based on my study of their positions, and often direct quotes.
johnklets:
Here is where you’re wrong. Precisely who makes the determination that “spanking is necessary” in a certain circumstance? We are seriously deficient in being able to put our own emotions to the side, and to exercise a true, Torah dictated chinuch approach. First, who has the training needed to make appropriate application of discipline? Frighteningly few. It is rare that a yeshiva demands such training prior to being assigned a classroom. Even many menahalim are undertrained in that (although Torah Umesorah has led the way to reducing that).
Next, repetitive of my earlier comment, everything, absolutely everything done with a student in yeshiva must be educational. Punishments that do not teach have no place in chinuch. Teaching to follow school’s rules is not the mission of chinuch. In fact, downloading Torah data isn’t either. It is the teaching of the basic skills of learning (how to learn), and the building of a connection to Torah (ahavas haTorah). The actual teaching of Chumash, Gemora, Halacha, etc. is just the vehicle to achieve the missions. A talmid that scores a 65 on a Chumash or Gemora test probably reflects a melamed that fared poorly in teaching him, not a talmid that didn’t care to learn. No, talmidim are not identical, and the cookie cutter stuff is not Torah based. Rather חנוך לנער על פי דרכו, oft repeated, but less often obeyed.
I’m not attacking yeshivos. They have a mammoth task, complicated by cramming more students in a classroom than true chinuch that allows for על פי דרכו. Hence we have curricula that push agendas based mostly on volume of material taught. Challenge from a difficult student is seen as a threat to the rebbe’s authority. That is a tragic misinterpretation most of the time. It’s more often a cry for help and connection. But staffing to cope with the sheer numbers of talmidim is limited, and everyone suffers.
The point of medication vs. spanking as a false dichotomy is extremely valid. Can anyone tell me whether Rabbi Trenk ever asked this question?
jackk:
What on earth are you talking about? You appear to have a serious case of TDS. The president was not impeached, and the basis for the impeachment was noting beyond political witchhunt. That was all proven. In fact, the info being disclosed these days shows the hoax was initiated by the top. The Dems abdicated their legislative duties and did nothing intheir terms in office except to make Trump miserable. And Trump accomplished more in his first 8 weeks than Obama y”sh in his eight years.
You are free to disagree with him. But stop making up false narratives. Go ahead and vote against him (once). But stop your stupidity. I don’t like Trump’s persona either. But he was more effective than anyone in the Dem party for many years.
As a thread about spanking, I find the comments here quite rational, regardless of whether i agree or not. I commend the commenters here for maintaining the focus.
Let’s repeat something stated in a few of the comments here. We need to match a solution to the problem if we expect a useful outcome. To fix a broken arm by amputating it sounds quite rash, and it is unlikely that we would recommend it. But once no longer part of the body, one would to need to fix the fracture anymore. If our focus is that limited, we can use any intervention we wished. we might eliminate the problematic behavior. But we might lose the child. And that doesn’t really solve the problem.
There are kids that need medication. Treating that with bandaids will not correct anything. Petch provide a very limited window of effectiveness, and it has its place. The misappropriated potch is an assault on a child, and its a greater problem than most things kids can do.
It is likewise difficult to address “medication” as a single approach. There are quite a few psychiatric diagnoses. The ones that are helped by medication are quite diverse, and different meds help for different conditions. The stimulants used for ADHD disorders may likely clash for others without those disorders. Anti-anxiety meds might help for certain kids, but might be contraindicated for the ADHD cases. Professional evaluation is critical, and this should be done by someone with specific expertise in child psychiatry or similar specialists. Schools can contribute info, but should never utter the common phrase, “Medicate your child or else keep him/her home.” That typically leads to parents twisting the arms of pediatricians who are often undertrained for child psychiatry to prescribe meds.
Schools that insure their faculty have solid training in discipline and knowing when to reach out for professional consultation are to be commended. It’s as important to writing good curriculum.
Reb Eliezer:
You wrote: “A young child crossing the road in traffic requires spanking to avoid this in the future or any other endangerment like striking a match or opening the gas.”
Apples and oranges. I have no interest in “teaching” my young child about traffic, matches, and the gas stove. My only interest is in inhibiting the dangerous behavior. That can be accomplished with various negative consequences, including the potch. I can reserve lessons about the dangers for later. In the behaviors which parents find irritating, which include chutzpah etc., the goal is to absorb the proper values in which these behaviors will not occur. The goal is to teach, not inhibit. Punishments fail to accomplish that. The comparison is irrelevant. You need a better argument to make potching something that is effective, a choice intervention, and logically appropriate.
And I thought the remedy for shingles was Shabbatons and shadchanim.
These discussions get a bit silly. Commenters make all sorts of generalizations and propose various inane ideas. And it boils down to bashert and hishtadlus.
But let’s examine one of the greatest decoys of all time, as it does impact the shidduch scene. The myth of the learning boy. Yes, it’s a fantasy. The scholarly prowess of a boy has a zero predictive factor in how he will be as a husband or father. One might be able to successfully determine how vast of a student the boy is, but we have never devised a reliable method for assessing the midos – which is the true determinant of successful marriage.
So I am essentially trashing the variants of how many times to date. And the bulk of information that gets discovered before the shidduch results in a meeting/date tends to be superficial, and considers areas of info that are trivial, at best. But we now have leaders, roshei yeshivos, rabbonim, and others who deliver us these broad strokes of genius of how many times to date, how much to disclose, and criteria to seek in order to approve. Yet, none of them can suggest ways to do discovery of one’s true midos.
I have listened to some of the talks given publicly to facilitate shidduchim. The disappointment is huge. The speakers purport to know so much on the subject. A recent broadcast was probably pleasant to some listeners. I was waiting for someone to say something smart, and no one gave me something to satisfy that desire. But that’s what we show for the experts.
This is a daring thing to say, but here goes. If we stopped pushing the myth of the learning boy, and made kollel a resource for those who were truly gifted in learning, the scene would change drastically. But that’s my fantasy.
A few commenters here are blind to the obvious. The support to Israel that is most critical is the withdrawal of any form of support for terrorist regimes. This includes Iran, and it royally includes Palestinians. And this is precisely where Obama failed, embracing terror anywhere, from money that was handed to the Palis disguised as “humanitarian aid”, to the billions of dollars in cash supplied to Iran. The Iran deal was a farce, and was never followed. Trump was right for withdrawing. All the violations had already been going on for long. That deal also expressly permitted any other forms of weapon development, and it was close to a guarantee that Iran would be in possession of nuclear weapons in 10 years or less. Blaming Trump for Iran violating its agreement is stupid and ignorant.
I believe that Biden will say all the right things to Israel in commitment of support. But he will commit the gravest of offenses to Israel when he turns to support the Palis. The Palestinian mission in life is to destroy Israel, something which they have never abandoned. Only Trump promised to withdraw support from that. Biden won’t, and that’s hs he will throw Israel under the bus.
Flatbush:
Your comment is not just insensitive. It’s plain nasty and not true. The maturity issue is not decided by gender or biological age. There are plenty of young men who are decently mature before 20, and plenty of overgrown babies at 30. Same goes for women. Your labeling boys reshoim is cruel, and unbecoming for a Yid. How dare you!
I am quite skeptical about all these discussions about “shidduch crisis”. yes, there are singles out there. There are too many single men, and there are too many single women. I do not believe that any individual boy or girl is single because of a crisis. I believe that each one has its own reasons and issues, and that all these efforts to solve the problem on a community basis are missing the point. Since there are singles who fall outside the age brackets common to our community today for shidduchim, we do need to have shadchanim ready and able to take on those situations. Some of the candidates may need some counseling or intervention to identify what did not work for them. Others need to access more shadchanim. Each single should be dealt with individually.
This may sound cruel, but there is no such intention. Occasionally, there is a boy or girl who should stay single. No, I don’t wish it on anyone. But some people lack some of the basic traits and skills needed to engage in a marriage and sustain it. Likewise, there are some families that will struggle with finding shidduchim for their children because of how they manage themselves. These are not common situations, but they are also not rare exceptions.
Bottom line – there are no two sides here, and no one is being stubborn. Just ditch the community wide approaches, and address each situation individually. Yes, that is top heavy. But this is what will work.
GH:
Democracy is a good thing. But the underlying philosophy of it requires rules and guidelines to keep it in check. In fact, the Gedolei Yisroel who were around at the time of the American Revolution did express their pleasure at the idea of religious freedom. However, they were quick to note that these is a serious risk of doom in its wake. We talk of independence. But that concept gets redefined by the people. And they have taken it to ridiculous extremes, such as legalization and official recognition of hard drugs, gender identity and all its perversions, and bizarre extremes of victimhood. We are watching before our own eyes how leaders condone destruction and violence, yet will vehemently oppose religious services. We watch them decry “institutional racism” as if it still exists, yet will engage in clear anti-Semitism. We watch them severely punish so many, mostly Jews, for infractions, while the vilest of crimes get treated to free meals and sports tickets. Yes, Sodom.
Trump is correct in his observation. But he is pointing to the goof in the system, and this was already known two centuries ago. And in case you’re interpreting his intention of instituting an oppressive system, stop the foolishness. That is far more likely to happen under the Dems. The Dems see their leadership as the license to take what is mine. They see savagery as an indication of victimhood and entitlement, not evil. Trouble is, I can’t see any silver lining in the Dems positions.
Johnklets:
The idea of spanking on the bottom, I believe, was based on the assumption that one can inflict pain without injury. I also believe that this was not done with exposing raw skin. I am aware of situations in which the intensity and amount of petch given was enough to cause serious pain of long duration. And I know of one instance that the rebbe who did that was terminated immediately and banned from chinuch for life. Yes, the powers that be kept track of his efforts to be rehired elsewhere and insured it would not happen.
I get it. The jury is out on masks. Help? Maybe. Hurt, probably not. So, saichel would say to use them. Even if clinically useless, it will keep the dogs (the political enforcers) at bay.
But there is something missing from all this. We have been believing that if not for masks, things “would have been” worse. That’s not scientific, and is something we only believe. It might be rational, but it does not become fact. Why is this relevant? Here’s my hypothesis. So many of the cases of infections have been good at social distancing, and wore masks. How did they contract Covid-19? I believe there are other means of transmission, besides the droplets. Without having identified anything yet, there must be alternative explanations for so many cases who have been quarantined, distanced, and masked.
So debate the mask thing, and pasken in whichever direction you want. We are still missing so much data.
Johnklets:
The use of corporal punishment is limited, and for a good reason. Punishment does not teach. It inhibits. The latter is occasionally required in a chinuch (school and parent) setting. Mostly, the goal is to teach. And spanking fails to accomplish that. Just associating a negative experience with a behavior does not convey the knowledge that a child truly needs.
What is appropriate? First identify the goal. Controlling behavior or teaching. I would hope that the scientist in the lab recognizes the task of controlling behavior, accomplished by reward and punishment. The learning of children, aka little humans, should not be reduced to that of lab animal, and we should set the goal to teach. Now, will spanking help achieve that goal? I just did the Jewish thing of answering one question with another. Why? Why not?
256:
What rebbe?
Ari256:
Disagree if you choose. But your pronouncement about Reb Shmuel is beyond ignorant. I am not of the opinion that someone’s prowess in learning has earned the qualifications to guide the Klal on political decisions, etc. Here, I must protest your claiming that to be relevant to Reb Shmuel. For quite some years, his son, Reb Sholom, has been the functional Rosh Hayeshiva in Philadelphia. Reb Shmuel has dedicated the greatest bulk of his time to serving in a leadership role for the Klal. This includes the Moetzes Gedolei Hatorah of Agudah, the Vaad Roshei Yeshivos of Torah Umesorah, and a go to person for Klal issues for many, many years. Your local orthodox rabbi might do enormously well at saying the Daf, drashos on Shabbos and Shalosh Seudos, even paskening shailos. This does not necessarily qualify him to represent the Klal or pasken/guide the Klal. Regardless, Reb Shmuel has been a public servant for many years, and unquestionably has the experience to be considered a gadol with vast knowledge in such areas. Again, you are not obligated to agree with him. But it is baseless to dismiss him as just a “Rosh Yeshiva in Philadelphia”.
Once someone enters politics, I have an expectation that they will behave with a huge degree of morality. Someone who sleeps their way to the top does not meet my expectation. Neither does someone who committed half of what Biden admits to having done, despite his dismissals.
No, I don’t excuse the president’s foul mouth, rhetoric, even lies. But he has a history of doing things that progressed this country forward, far more than any president in our recent history. And he accomplished this while being distracted by the several hoaxes and fabrications by the immoral, evil Dems. I will gladly take four more years of Trump than a minute of a brain dead puppet and an immoral orator.
Most of these discussions are silly. What worked for one parent or rebbe might not work for another. There are also halachos here, some of which were recorded in prior comments. Additionally, there are hadrachos from our contemporary gedolim that are useful. It is easy to generalize from one situation to another, to create rules from certain experiences, to use specific instances to conclude a self-made halacha. These are all follies, and שומר נפשו ירחק מהם. None of us were trained in parenting before having children, and it is the exceptional rebbe who received training in such matters before being hired to teach in a classroom.
Petch is not intended to cause pain, as is clear in the gemora. It is to make a point in action that failed to transmit in words. In a wide variety of seforim on the halachos of chinuch, relevant to parents and mechanchim, there is a wealth of wisdom from Gedolei Yisroel throughout the generations. It is clear that the potch that punishes is not the one that teaches. That is clearly outside of the potch that is muttar in halacha. The first potch, under a list of conditions may be permitted (not necessarily recommended). The second one is a physical assault, and is a violation of Torah Law.
There are many more aspects to this that provide fodder for lively discussion. I have no problem with anyone attacking what I wrote. I did not contrive anything. Everything came directly from our Torah giants. If anyone wishes to move this thread into a debate, I respectfully ask that one provide direct references from the seforim of halacha. If we go there, I will share direct quotes supporting every word I wrote.
The first lockdown was accepted almost universally, albeit reluctantly. We all knew there was a terrible thing happening, and that we were additionally handicapped by the fact that this was a pathogen that was previously unknown and poorly studied. As much as there was a pandemic of a disease, there was a reaction of shock, bewilderment, and the infusion of a huge amount of folklore and foolishness that tends to attempt to fill the gaps.
This second wave, though predicted, encounters quite a different ambience. Many have had it and recovered. There is a proliferation of tests (with varying degrees of accuracy), and there are more treatment options. There is, at least, some awareness that there is a psychological side to this disease, and that isolating the afflicted person from the world is not the answer.
The yeshivos had varying success with remote learning, and it would be interesting to see some empirical data to analyze. Meanwhile, it was clear that remote was only second best, and that prolonged closing was harmful in the short and long term.
What is not unique is how the politicians are dealing with this. NYS has encountered a contemporary Haman, who brazenly admits that he is basing his decrees on fear, not science. So far, the numbers do not support his discriminatory manner applied to the lockdown. NYC has watched the mayor, whose true colors are now more apparent, support domestic terror while attempting to crush everything religious. This is not unique. Jews have experienced pogroms, inquisitions, concentration camps, and persecution. We just did not expect to find it in the “land of the free”.
A major difference is that we, even Jews, can vote. And we can do our best and bravest to oust these evil anti-Semites from public office. They are part of the movement to reshape the ideology of America. It has become fashionable to claim victimhood. The liberals have advanced that to making ridiculous claims of Jews being perpetrators. That must be abolished, and the voting booth is the only place to do that.
Remember in November.
There are conflicting studies on the benefits of masking. The research methodologies used are dissimilar, so one cannot even venture to group them to find more representative statistics. From whatever I have seen, the use of masks “might” contribute to a reduction in airborne transmission of corona. However, I suspect that there is too much emphasis on this. I believe there are other forms of transmission that are being ignored or not studied because of the obsession with masks and social distancing. This includes the lockdowns having questionable results, much of which might be attributed to the fluctuations that would exist anyway.
Particularly disturbing is the politicizing of all this, which lends a myth of scientific credibility to something that simply lacks true scientific support. I would love to see solid research on the effectiveness of masks, plus a properly controlled study of the actual reduction of cases of the virus.
It seems hat many here are missing the obvious. We once had government, and opposing political parties vying for the positions to control and bring their policies to fruition. Politics was the means to a goal – government. That has shifted. We now have politics as the ultimate goal, and the means to promote that is via government. In this new world, you do things because you can, not because they are correct, honest, moral, or for the public good. The impeachment folly and the Russia hoax happened because it began in the House with a Democrat majority. It was incorrect, dishonest, immoral, and diverted hundreds of hours of legislators’ time to the foolish escapade.
In reality, so much of Trump’s potential accomplishments were blocked by House Dems. Not because they were right, but because they could. Just look at anything Trump does or says. Never a supportive word, just consistent trashing. It’s not about governing. It’s about politics. And bipartisan promises have been wholly unfulfilled, with the bulk of resistance coming from the Dems.
Let’s not be blind to the role of party politics here. Far more important that doing one’s job.
Simple answer. The doctor presents his/her own professional opinion. For every one that pushes the masks, there’s at least one that doesn’t believe in them. The politician has an agenda that may well have little connection to truth, science, fact, public health, or the welfare of the constituents.
The gedolim are issuing something akin to a psak halacha. They must obtain untainted facts before doing so. That is a solid explanation for their silence.
Hmmm. So we’re judging by the appearance on video or photos, and establishing fact based on that. Haven’t we learned that the camera lens is directed towards the drama or the most demonstrative scene? If I was taking photos, I would not be documenting the entire event, but looking for the scenes that portray interesting things. With less than optimal objectivity, are we reaching conclusions? Assumptions?
The use of numbers to determine policy is fraught with complication. Here is a simple rule that governs all use of statistics in the science world.
Most research is done to use a sampling that is then used as the basis for generalizing to the whole. That automatically involves error. So there must be measures taken to insure that the sample best represents the entire population that is being studied.
We have all read the political polls, which must identify the scope of the sample (likely voters, registered voters, random people, members of a particular party, etc.). We then read a final line that the numbers are within several points of accuracy. This site is not the place for a statistics lesson. But this is enough to point to the matter of inference from a sample to a whole. One can trash the meaning of results by noting the poor sampling used. And that is much the issue here.
The media are culprits of using a single individual as representative of a whole, something no statistician would ever accept.
I consider Cuomo an enemy of the Jews, and same goes for the mayor. I wish them the worst, and daven for that daily. But I do not believe in these protests, not because of the position, but the yelling there has no effect. I want to see these evil politicians ousted at the ballot box.
While I can say I benefitted much from watching the debate, it was something that continued to make the issues in the election clear. Those who comment about the rudeness of Trump are correct. I wish he was more refined, spoke nicer, and directed himself away from the open battles with the Dems. But it was also quite clear that Trump has a track record that is superb, and that all of his “poor middos” are not relevant to his effectiveness at accomplishing amazing things for this country. Biden’s lame attacks on what “would have been” were flat and nothing more than static noise.
Meanwhile, Biden gets kudos for not saying “C’mon man” a single time. However, his disrespect for the president was extreme, and this was only exceeded by his ridiculous lies. You don’t call the President a clown in public, though you may disagree with him.
I was impressed with the partisan position of the moderator. It was shameful. With that in mind, I give Trump a pass on his rudeness toward the moderator.
I do want the debates to continue.
There is something missing from this discussion. There is a huge problem that exists. We are founded upon many mosdos and organizations. And a great many of these are strapped for money. Yeshivos less than timely with salaries, organizations having lost many forms of government funding, etc. The desperation is huge. We are not even addressing the countless competing voices begging for tzedokoh for yesomim, medical issues, etc. that flood the pages of our frum websites, make our phones ring throughout the day and night, etc.
History suggests that any candidate that either promises, or has a track record of helping direct funding to these yeshivos and organizations will get the bulk of the community votes. The policies of this politician regarding toeyva, Israel, and other important issues are ignored. Engel is a wonderful supporter of Israel. But his Democrat policies are mostly nasty and in opposition to our values. I would not want him in office. But money speaks. And once in a while, someone flops, and gets replaced by those who are far worse. I suggest that we pay our attention to when we push a candidate for money reasons. It may explain why we have some supported politicians who are evil, anti-Jewish in multiple ways, but secure in their positions.
GH:
Your second rant was no smarter than the first, and it contributes no compliment to you. I get your political leaning, and haven’t a care in the world who gets your vote. Your anti-Trump sentiments may have basis, or maybe not. Who cares. The discussion is about smoking and drinking in yeshiva, and no one checks their political feelings and aspirations before choosing to indulge in tobacco or alcohol. I would venture to bet that any survey of smokers or drinkers would reflect the balance between Trump and Biden that is characteristic for the geographic location or other demographics. You are entitled to your complaints about how Trump handled the pandemic, and i am entitled to agree or disagree. But you won’t miss a thread without engaging in your Trump bashing. Maybe it’s time to grow up. or get help for your obsession. By all means, be aware of those feelings on Election day. This thread is not the place.
GH:
You are displaying either an obsession or a psychotic fixation. The issue is not Trump, except in your mind.
Baltimore:
I might suggest that Elul is an appropriate time to dispense with sarcasm. And in case you were serious, I must tell you that I don’t believe you are mistaken. I know for certain that you are completely wrong. And any effort to try and mislead with your inaccuracies is worthy of a few more Al Cheits.
Hey Doc:
You asked: “My question is why didn’t President Obama withhold the $247.5 Million (plus interest) that a Federal Judge ordered the Government of Iran pay the family before releasing the funds?”
We all know the answer. Because it was Obama. He would never allow a dollar of money he wished to supply to the greatest terrorist regime in world history to be given to a Jew who was a victim of Iranian terror – even as per a court order. We all observed that Obama never met a terrorist he did not encourage, support, or fund. I guess that makes him a terrorist by proxy. I never thought differently about him. And he proved it to us so many times.
RE:
The press conferences are attended by a very limited audience. They are 6 feet apart. Their masks make for a nice photo – implying they are more cautious, but offer zero practical benefit in the specific situation. Frankly, many of the leftist media reps would accomplish more for humanity if they wore muzzles.
Sorry, Jack and Eliezer. You have both been smoking something.
Iran was in violation of the deal from the outset. IEAE was only permitted to visit certain sites, not others. Bibi provided the stolen documentation proving it all. It is sad that you won’t believe the evidence. Your lies might sound better than the truth, but they are still fiction.
Obama continually incentivized the Iranians to build nuclear weapons. The Deal that was in effect for only 10 years (after which all is openly permitted) and the limitations on accountability were clear statements to Iran to go ahead, just focus the warheads on Israel. Obama y”sh concluded with the supply of billions of dollars in cash. Yes, the money belonged to Iran. But it was holed up in US so that it would not be used to murder innocent Israelis. Obama could not tolerate that, and insured they could now finance their terror passions.
It is lame to blame Trump for this. false, and nothing other than the Dems playbook. If you’re old enough to use a computer, you should be old enough to have outgrown the silly narrative.
Sam:
First, let me qualify as a staunch advocate AGAINST social media. The “relationships” that exist in that climate are artificial, and can do nothing except interfere with real ones.
Social media does not cause divorces. Misuse of it does. And misuse of cell phones, landline phones, alcohol, and a host of other things also “cause” divorce. Perhaps if we examine this, we’ll see what is semantics, and what is real.
One’s spouse must be #1 in his/her life. Anything that pushes the spouse to #2 risks the viability of the marriage. Here are examples of things that threaten #1 status:
* Any real or pseudo relationships.
* Parents and family.
* Mind altering chemicals, such as alcohol or drugs.
* Mind altering behaviors, eating disorders, gambling, shopping, etc.
* Compulsive involvement in one’s yeshiva or chassidus.
* Indulgence in travel, luxuries, etc.
* Workaholism
* Addictive patterns of technology use, including phones, computers, internet access, including gaming and schmutzMany of the above are never good, but tolerable in moderation. Others, such as family, can be a wonderful thing – just a disaster when placed before the marriage.
No, I do not like social media. So many aspects of it are fake. Pseudo relationships, addictive overuse, the trashing of boundaries, notions that every communication requires a response, etc. But the misuse of it that places it before the wife or husband is the killer of the marriage. And many things can be used that way.
It should be amusing (but it’s not) to attend to this armchair quarterbacking. There are typically multiple versions of the facts of the case, and that is precisely why there is an investigation, and will probably be some court action to sort things out and establish the fact pattern. Meanwhile, the Dems are obsessed with the anti-black narrative, and all reputable data suggests that is fictitious. It remains unquestionable fact that there is zero moral defense for the protesters destroying anyone’s property and endangering the safety of everyone else. And the level of rioting that is currently going on has not had anything to do with racism at all. Blake is just another excuse to riot. That’s what the Dems want. And if that is how you believe, vote for Biden-Harris and other Democrat terror lovers.
n0m:
It is getting silly to discuss whether Biden is a moderate or not. What does matter is who is pulling his puppet strings. he has a heap of radicals who are pressuring him to the left, with major force. He has some in his campaign who are scared of the consequences of the left shift, and are pulling back. So we get to read all these media articles about “flip flop”. Yes, Obama y”sh did that, too. So he agrees to defund police, then says, “No way, I’ for law and order”. Then he says he would slash funding again. So the winds determine his position.
He is no longer a moderate, nor a leftist. It’s about who is applying pressure at the moment. And that is scary. His campaign staff don’t work much past the election. Only a few might participate in transition. Then come the leftists, and they are far more relentless than the pushers of a moderate position.
GH:
People known to carry guns mist be considered armed until it is verified otherwise. Meanwhile, you are looking to declare the shooting unjustified. I don’t know that, nor do i know otherwise. Let the investigations be done. In the meantime, the riots and savagery being done in his name are certainly without excuse. If I was in charge, I would want to use deadly force against these animals. No one has the privilege of declaring the shooting unjustified until proven so. The mentality that you imply has no basis in morality, and that is why the Dems that encourage this violence, looting, and destruction richly deserve to occupy prison cells, not public office.
SiDi:
1. I doubt there is anything more than coincidence with the parallel to Johnnie Walker.
2. Having been in the store before, I found the Baal Haboss (who walked from his Gemora to service me, to be quite eager and ready to respond to my questions. From an earlier conversation with him, the difference is probably in the quality of the fabric (percentage of cotton to synthetic fibers).
3. If you do get to speak to the boss and to ask him something, please relay a suggestion that they design the sirts with an extra millimeter of fabric in the upper left sleeve to accommodate those who wish to lower the sleeve after putting on tefillin.
I find all this discussion about racism pathetic. It has become an emotionally laden buzzword. There is no real definition for this, outside of the dictionary. It has taken on a life of its own, and one can use it with whatever meaning one wishes. The impact of calling someone a racist is substantial, and this, too, is an indication of the liberalism that has swallowed up the last vestiges of common sense and morality. No, I’m not saying that slavery or discrimination are tolerable. Certainly not. But the craziness that goes into the frivolous labeling of people, often not supportable by proof, is gripping our society and making it impossible to grow or exist.
I do not believe that anyone really knows what is meant by calling Biden a racist. Neither is the Democrat and MSM agenda that calls Trump a racist anything but barking this emotionally tinged word. It tells the listener that the individual should not be supported or elected. And that is worse than stupid.
While I detest the Democrat Party that has veered away from a value system that is constitutional or civil, I do not fault Kamala Harris for some of what is portrayed as “racist”. She was elected and hired to prosecute crimes. If many or even most of the defendants were black, so be it. No one forced blacks to commit crimes. So the consequences should be appropriate to their actions. And if they were white, things should be the same. Blaming a prosecutor for incarcerating blacks that are convicted of crimes is ludicrous. Quite the contrary. Refusing the prosecute criminals, of whatever color, is intolerable. To the degree she did that, she is undeserving of public office. But stop the frivolous use of the word racism. It’s childish. I recall other words we used as children to sound hurtful, equally meaningless.
GH:
Firstly, I’m not so sure that his re-election efforts are sinking. Polls in 2016 had Hillary winning in a landslide. That turned out to be a bluff. There are other polls which suggest otherwise.
Secondly, the October Surprise does matter. Your hypotheses make sense. But there are others. There are revelations about both Biden and Harris that can come to light. Of course the leftist media won’t report them, much as they avoided numerous other matters until now. But we are in an information age, and much does not remain secret, including the extreme bias of the media. The sheer rate of gaffes from Biden suggests that the biggest is yet to come (some were quite serious already). Yes, the indictment of Obama’s cronies will matter. There are already exposures of completely damning documents that indicate quite a conspiracy involving many of the key players in the Obama administration. Not much more is needed to destroy the credibility of the DNC and many of its leaders.
The narratives about Trump have been proven to be smoke and mirrors, though still touted by the media and the Democratic candidates (plus some commenters in the CR). So far, the racist thing has never been substantiated by anything. And Trump has accomplished more for minority communities than Obama or other Democrat politicians. The law and order thing will also damage the Democrat message, as it is already resulting in the dismantling of those most capable of maintaining any degree of civility in our cities. We should all be scared of what Biden would do with China. The radical left is not just tolerant of terror, but actually supports it, as Obama did at any chance he got. I believe that enough of America sees these sorts of things, and we’ll see more of this exposed come October.
CTL:
You drank the koolaid again. You are blabbering the Democrat narrative, and believe that repeating the nonsense multiple times will result in others buying it. I thought you were a lot smarter than that.
We desperately needed a huge number of conservative judges, to rip us away from the liberal legislating from the bench.
Sino-US relations were horrible, and lopsided. They needed change. Just that with Biden and his cronies, that would never happen. And the American population and our government would lose. The trade balance was awful, and was heading us into an abyss.
Buddy Putin? That’s the narrative that the likes of Pelosi and Maxine Waters were pushing. Nonsense.
I don’t mind disagreeing with you on the vouchers issue or the taxes that fund social programs. We can at least have a dialogue based on facts and their interpretations. But the drivel you spout that is nothing more than the Democrat Party narrative is pathetic, and I thought you were above that.
Charlie:
You speak of Iran’s compliance with the deal as if it is verified fact. But that is not true at all. There were numerous reports of a wide variety of violations. At some point, Bibi made a public presentation with the evidence of much of the documentation of the activities they continued to carry on secretly. Some may have been outraged at the publicity, but the truth was undeniable. So Iran is not a friend, but a devious enemy that lies, cheats, and has zero respect for truth. Signing this was an unmitigated gall on Obama’s part. He knew, as we all do, that this piece of paper was for publicity only, and all the work towards nuclear weapons would continue. He just didn’t care about that because Iran did not have Washington in its crosshairs. It had Israel. And Obama viewed Israel as a pain in the neck, that needed to be tolerated to get the Jewish vote and to avoid conflicting with Congress that was friendly to her.
Iran is at the same place today as they would have been under the deal that they never honored. All that sets them back are the opportunities that Israel finds to disrupt their work. Meanwhile, they were awarded the resources to fund terror against Israel by subsidizing Hamas and Hezbollah. If you like them so much, move there.
Jack
How offensive, arrogant, and dishonest can you get! I have heard lies, bigger lies, and then your comment took dishonesty to new heights.
You wrote: “Obama has no ulterior motives other than to see what he believes in continued.” Firstly, that means his legacy. Second, he has uttered his hate for Trump so many times it was getting boring. He wants Biden in, as this is a proverbial puppet. No mind of his own, in serious cognitive decline, and with dozens of skeletons in his closet. Obama will reign once again through his stuffed toy, Sleepy Joe.
“His legacy is etched in gold already , no matter what the spiteful, despicable individual that came after him did .” Actually, no. Obama’s administration is lauded by no one outside of the DNC and the media they own. Otherwise, it was a foreign relations disaster, and domestically worse. Trump spoke like a fool, with his impulsive and offensive tweeting, and his narcissistic rants. But he accomplished more in a few months of presidency that Obama did in 8 years. There were many idiocies that needed to be reversed, like the Iran deal and others. Nothing is etched in gold. Much is etched in manure.
“Nobody advocates or enjoys violence.
“Elimination of police.” ?!
The slogan is ‘defund the police’ . It is not ‘eliminate the police.
It is hard to believe that someone thinks that someone believes that.
When the republicans deal with racism and brutality by the police there will no longer be any protests.” Nonsense. Did you listen to some of the Democrat politicians? They advocate abolishing the police. NYC’s shifting of a billion was decried as useless, with the pressure to defund them to the zero level. They said it, and your cherished biased media reported that with pride.“Obama never gave 150 billion dollars to Iran. This is totally false.” That is an outright lie. He even had it delivered in secret and in cash. Again, check your biased media.
You are pathetic. If you hate Trump, I can understand even though I may disagree. He is infrequently presidential, and i find it unbecoming. No, he did not create or escalate the racial divides. That nonsense is the narrative of the Dems, as are several other lies they brandish in their ads and media performances. But get on board with the matters of fact and fiction. I am willing to discuss, debate, and even be wrong on things. But I will never spend my time debating an issue that is fundamentally dishonest. Meanwhile, Obama sounded much more pleasant. But he wrecked too much. Trump has been the opposite. He sounds irritating, but accomplished an amazing amount.
CTL:
So wrong. Obama wants to see the stuff he rammed into Washington that Trump eliminated to be restored and then some. The “damage” you imply that was caused or done by Trump is not detectable. The racial divides were worse under Obama, and have swelled to violence and crime that Obama and his ilk enjoy. The socialism that most refer to are the elimination of police (sounds nice, but even the Commies had police), and the redistribution of wealth. I would like to meet the Democrats of the recent era that oppose that.
As for your wife’s pre-existing condition, Trump was extremely open about maintaining coverage for pre-existing conditions, even with his mission to abolish Obamacare. He spoke of that openly during his campaign, and he stands out as a president who did not flip flop from campaign promises once assuming office. I do wish your wife a refuah shelaimoh.
Charlie:
He sent billions in cold hard cash secretly to Iran, the funder of both Hezbollah and Hamas. Iran was never intending to use the money to supply pillows and blankets to refugees in Gaza or Lebanon. Admit it.
And I laud you for contributing to Omar’s opponent.
CTL:
Sad for all, but Obama has become a spokesperson for the DNC. I know he’s an ex-president, but he isn’t better as an ex- than he was while in office. One would hope that the primary spokesperson for the party should be the nominee, but he can’t handle that responsibility. He’s brain dead, and cannot finish a coherent sentence, even with prompting. Thus, Obama’s utterances become the lyrics for the party song. And he has always managed to chum up to terror and to fund it if possible. Must we waste space here listing his many contributions?
I do understand that we cannot punish the descendants of the wicked for the evils of history. But that doesn’t explain Obama. It is said that there was never a terrorist he failed to support and fund. Any exaggeration involved in that statement is microscopic. We now have several members of Congress who subscribe to the same values. So when any of these resho’im endorses a candidate, it tells me that there is something sinister here, and that the votes should be directed elsewhere.
Charie:
You wrote: “This could work in NY as well, if we can just get over our allergy to supporting politicians who are willing to raise taxes.”
You’re kidding. The tax rates here are obscenely high, and we obtain the least bang for the buck. And this makes sense, since there is a significantly higher proportion of takers from the system than other locales where taxes are much less. This, my friend, is an intended and predicted result of the “dependency culture” promoted by the Democrats and liberals. Aside from the morally bankrupt policy of spreading wealth, it creates a self-sustaining system of takers that vote for the establishment. If this weren’t so corrupt, one might marvel at the genius of it. But I suspect that I will trigger your wrath in a barrage of nice sounding slogans and aphorisms, none of which are acceptable to the morally tuned mind. After all, we reads of this in a Mishna.
שלי שלי ושלך שלך זו מידה בינונית, ויש אומרים זו מידת סדום.
Such opposite opinions! Doesn’t it make sense to say that what’s mine is mine, and what’s yours is yours? Certainly. But that is not the reason for this. It is because the Torah says so. If we rely only on our logic, we will deteriorate into what made סדום a place that could not respond to change, and Hashem needed to destroy it completely.
So before responding, just think a bit into this. It’s not about who you vote for, but what you vote for. I am repulsed by Trump’s personality, and continue to cringe at so many of his messages. But I have yet to see a Democrat behave properly, within tolerable morality.