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I just saw a kuntres that was distributed in shuls blasting daf yomi and the Agudah. It contained quotes from many gedolim, inlcuding the Kedushas Tzion of Bobov, The Satmar Rov, and many others. Within a few minutes, it was clear that this kuntres was nothing of ther than ???? ?????, and I lifted the pile and threw it into the garbage can. If someone does not want to learn daf yomi, that is okay with me. If someone holds a shittah that such learning is ineffective, they are entitled to their opinion. But to spend money, time, and energy to fight a kinus of Klal Yisroel celebrating the learning of Shas is kefira, and stands against Torah. I treated these publications the same as I would literature from the missionaries.
I hold the gedolim quoted in that kuntres in the highest of respect. What they said in their time is not relevant today, and disseminating those opinions today is unfair and dishonest, even offensive to the tzaddikim who spoke to their generation. I do not question their judgment. Just note when they spoke and to whom they did so.
Ohr chodesh:
There certainly are therapists who can damage. There are rotten apples in every bushel. However, very, very few rabbonim have the extensive experience with shalom bayis issues you expect, and that makes the average Rov, unless you know that he is the exception, NOT qualified to advise or direct. Any decent therapist knows their areas of expertise. If they do not have the experience to work with addictions, they redirect referrals to someone that does. Same goes for any other area. Being mesader kiddushin at a chuppah does NOT qualify to give advice on marital issues. And I proclaim loudly, the same goes for chosson and kallah teachers, who have racked up horrendous records of ruining marriages if they are asked for advice after the marriage.
I once asked a well recognized and respected Dayan about a certain chosson teacher. Once identifying who it was, he turned and spit on the floor. He said to me, “You know of a few cases of casualties of this man. I know of many dozens.”
Smicha qualifies one to pasken shailos. It goes without saying that there has been shimush by veteran and seasoned poskim. Now, please tell me, what qualifies that Rov, big talmid chochom, etc., to counsel anyone about anything? Training? Shimush? Any Rov challenged with a problem will want to help. If he believes he knows what to do, though with no experience, he runs a risk of harming equivalent to a grocer practcing medicine and surgery.
I direct you to the peirush of the Ramban on Bava Kama daf 87. (Hard to find – it is the only piece of Ramban on Bava Kama and thus missing in most sets of Ramban on Shas.) He is clear that practicing any form of health care without proper training is assur. I await your reply after you have reviewed that Ramban.
ohr chodesh:
Your statement, while it sounds like you want to patronize the talmidei chachomim of our time, based on ??? ?? ???? ??, is quite scary. I explained exactly why the Rov is NOT the person to approach when there is a problem lkke this. The matters of health have already been handed off to doctors, as we know, ???? ????? ???? ????? ??????. This includes mental health. In fact, we are told that a ???? should approach a ??? for the purposes of davening for him. There is no Torah precedent to considering a ??? a doctor.
One can respect Torah and its ?????? immensely, but not seek their advice to repair one’s car or install an air conditioner. My extensive experience with rabbonim is that they might mean well, but few have the talents and skills to provide useful guidance in situations involving addictions, mental illnesses, and marital discord. I don’t fault them. I do fear those who blindly seek advice from someone who does not really know the answers. There are dangerous pitfalls. The truly smart Rov knows his limits, and refers those seeking his advice to those who are more skilled to offer it.
I must add a comment here, agreeing with some, challenging others.
The man who indulges in the inappropriate sights on the internet is NOT cheating on his wife. He is seeking some additional thrills to satisfy a taavah. His behavior has NOTHING to do with his wife, not her behavior towards him, not her nagging, not her appearance, nor their marital life together. However, the wife who discovers her husband with any such interests will understandably feel that he was cheating on her. But that does NOT put the onus of work on the wife. Rather, it is the sole responsibility of the husband to address his problem, the needed behavior change, and the character work to change him internally so that these taavos do not rule over him. Wife needs the guidance to support her husband through the work he needs to do to reclaim his status as the spiritual head of household.
Besides rare exceptions, the Rov has little to contribute to this. Most Rabbonim will either side with the husband, making light of the issue, prescribing a shiur of Chofetz Chaim or something otherwise holy but missing the point completely. Others will side with the wife, suggesting prisha, ultimatums, etc. That is why it is obvious to many that Rabbonim do not have much of a role in addressing marital issues, and certainly not most issues in the realm of mental health. In marital dilemmas, playing the role of the impartial is critical in bring about resolution of the problem. Doing so is the product of training, which the average Rov does not have.
I wish more people would realize that will power is not reliable. Every addict says it, and every addict learns that this is a recipe for failure. Just think for a minute. Will power is not a steady state. Rather, it is dynamic. As one of the therapists I know always tells me, will power is an event – that of making a decision. One can easily and effortlessly change his mind seconds later. Presto, a new will power! In order to cease involvement in a behavior which has any compulsivity or habituation to it, one needs more than will power. Relying on oneself rarely works, and it is a long shot. To believe one is unique and capable of doing it alone is self-deceptive.
The draw to inappropriate material is a taavah that affects all, and requires constant work to confront the challenge. Once someone has fallen into its clutches, the power of bechira becomes tougher, and there is desperate need for outside force to withstand the taavah. Whether this is an informed and skilled Rav or a therapist depends on the situation. But the interest in allowing the only positive force to be will power is a grave mistake. Addicts in recovery discover this the hard way.
The painful reality is that the organizations are in more trouble today than ever, and their efforts to fund raise are being expanded out of desperation. Every dollar for them is a plus (or more accurately, less of a minus). I can understand their interests in finding Yidden anywhere and everywhere to pull in a few more dollars. However, just like they are hurting, so is everyone else. The yeshivos and school where we send our children have had massive cutbacks in funds, and they turn to the parents to keep them afloat. Every other organization where we have been giving has lost donors and other sources of money, and we are pressured to keep them afloat. Our costs of living have also increased. The tzedokos to panhandlers in shuls and at our doors have also increased. Many of us have relatives or neighbors who are unemployed, and we are shunting our money there. Bottom line, there are fewer tzedokoh dollars available for these organizations who call me on the phone that I don’t know or have any connection to them. I try to be nice in telling them that I still give more than I am able, I still have unpaid debts, and I will never pledge on the phone. They are desperate, and insist on postdated checks or my credit cards. That’s chutzpah, but they are desperate.
I simply pray that these organizations find these forms of fund raising to be losses for them, not profitable. They will then stop this. I’m all for tzedokoh, and legitimate forms of obtaining it and using it for wonderful things. To be interrupted at work many times a day for these arguments is a major disturbance. I wish they would stop. I wish I could get my name off their lists.
These callers are always representing organizations. In contrast to the individuals who may getcha in shul or at the door whose identity you may never know or be able to research, the organizations tend to be somehow known. I respond to all of them that I never pledge on the phone. I remind them that their marketing tactic gives away their legiotimacy, since I never heard of them, certainly did not give last year, and am already overdrawn in my tzedokoh donations already. Before they can continue with their barrage of arguments (they are well trained for exactly this), I tell them something like “Thank you for calling, but please remove my name from your list – I never, ever give in response to phone solicitation.”
There is an old joke about the computer technician who was called to an accountant’s office whose printer was not working. He discovered the cable was unplugged, and reconnected it. He handed the CPA an invoice for $500. The accountant asked him for an itemized bill. It read, “Plugging in printer – $5. Knowing what to do – $495.
?????? ????.
Ohr chodesh
You scare me, too. I have no problem listening to the ideas or opinions of lay people. But if my health (or mental health) is on the line, I will NOT base my future on someone without training. My earlier comment was not based on preference or policy. It was based on an accumulation of many experiences. There are popular C&K teachers out there who bear the responsibility of many gittin as well as shattered families. We should all be mispallel that these people should find success in a career change, for the good of the Klal.
Toi:
You frighten me greatly. We have a calamity today with chosson and kallah teachers. Rabbonim & therapists are stuck trying to repair the damage wreaked on innocent young people who were misguided prior to marriage, and who got incompetent shalom bayis advice after. I know of several who are so hazardous that some rabbonim would like to stop them completely or at least assur them from any counseling. In this forum, I won’t mention names, but I wish I could do so to protect victims. I’m unsure why you and a few other commenters are anti-therapy. I’m not anti anyone, but they must have some training. Don’t ask me to fix your car or pasken a shailoh. Don’t make the tragic mistake of having marital issues treated by someone unqualified.
Choppy:
You are so wrong it is pitiful. I do not fault rabbonim for their intentions. They mean well. But, as another commenter here noted, the average Rov is hopelessly uninformed about the entire subject. I cannot even describe the horrors I witnessed firsthand from well meaning rabbonim in cases involving addictions, marital problems, and exactly this question of husbands on the internet. It is frightening to place faith in the uninformed. I am a really nice guy, but do not ask me to repair your car, plumbing, or do electrical work. Nor do I pasken shailos. I am not qualified. The average Rov is not qualified to practice the counseling profession. That is a fact that is not debatable. Some accumulate some experience over time, and may be perhaps better than others. Still others undergo training. But the woeful situation of marital problems submitted to the average Rov is too painful to watch.
There are good therapists, and there are bad ones. Many are pushed to practice in areas outside of their specialty, and they can actually do damage. But the professions are generally safe in guiding their flocks to maintain ethical codes that require them to stick with their areas of expertise and refer those outside them to others.
Your broad brush about therapists is simply untrue. With the greatest of respect, I would say that most rabbonim are not qualified to counsel a marriage in trouble, nor addictions, nor other psychological problems. I know they wish to help, and I am a firm believer that the Torah has the answers. But we have not been zocheh to find specific directions in the heilige Torah. That is why we are told, ???? ???? ???? ????? ??????.
Rabosai:
Internet access can be controlled in three ways.
1. Total ban. Highly advised for all households, but not always possible or practical.
2. Filtered. There are many filters available. If parents have the passwords to suspend, they are themselves at risk. Not all filters are good for our purposes, as standards vary from one company to the next. Overly restrictive filters may actually prevent needed access to the web. There is a degree of individual decision to be made here, and having guidance from a posek is recommended (or required).
3. Monitored. There is software that keeps track of computer activity, particularly internet activity. Any sites that are considered questionable are flagged, and the report is sent, usually weekly, to a designated monitor. This creates the technological ??? ???? that is demanded in ???? ???? as part of our emunah in Hashem. Thus, even what passes a filter is flagged and exposed to an outsider. It is recommended by professionals everywhere that a wife not be her husband’s monitor (or vice versa). There is a Rov in New York that does not permit unmonitored internet access among his mispallelim. He receives a few hundred reports weekly.
The professionals I know all suggest monitors as stronger than filters, but also suggest filters anyway.
For those coping with someone who is surfing the wrong places on the web, recognize that these aveiros occur in a ?? ???? ?? ?????, in other words, in a mind empty of the proper things that should be occupying it. It is better to view the individual who has fallen prey to this problem as having a sickness, not an evil person. He is not cheating on his wife; he is cheating on his ????. He needs help, not ?????. Test this. It works.
Another few lessons are in order.
For men, looking at inappropriate material is yetzer horah, following the lure of taavah. For the wife of this man, it is infidelity. We can debate the accuracy of her perception, but that’s how it is. Hubby needs help in restructuring his life to become one of kedusha, and wifey needs to recognize that her husband is not perfect. He’s human, not a malach.
Finding the Rov who is expert in these matters is actually a formidable task. Most rabbonim I know (quite a few from many different circles) know close to nothing about this. They can often cite the words of our great baalei mussar, but they have no clue about how to help an individual apply them to his life. Here is where the professionals come in. It is often that a team approach with the Rov and the therapist provides the benefit of both.
I have watched with horror how the average Rov will deal with breaches of “kedusha”. Most will become disciplinary and spout the admonitions to refrain from such illicit behaviors and thoughts. These approaches are totally ineffective, and are exactly what the Mesilas Yeshorim refers to when he notes that ineffective discipline does not fulfill the mitzvah of ???? ????? ?? ?????. If the individual who succumbed to this taavah is a yeshiva bochur who was “caught”, there are substantial chances that he will be expelled from yeshiva, citing the often fictitious excuse that he will destroy the rest of the yeshiva. This approach destroys, without leaving room for building anything. ??? ??? ???? ???? ????. Just a small amount of light will eliminate much darkness. The ????? of indulgence in these problems does not prevent ????? ??????. We are told that Hashem is ????? ??? ???? ???????, that He still dwells among us even in our state of ?????. Someone who can engage the ????? needs to be emraced and helped, not chased away. Our greatest gedolim were far more worried about a ??? ???? than the ??? ????. The latter does not prevent the presence of the ?????, the former does.
Men use imagery all the time, and struggle with it all the time. That is the nisayon granted to every Jewish male. Instead of using ineffective punishment and discipline, let’s work at making one’s life imbued with kedusha, such that there is no room available for the negative stuff. Picking up a mussar sefer is great, but only in a manner that the individual relates to it personally, not the academics.
It is important to note that men who look where they should not are not indicating that their marriages are lacking in intimacy or emotional closeness. They are just, er, men. The wives cannot “repair” this problem by being more attentive, etc. It is not their issue, nor is it an issue that reflects a deficiency on the part of the wives. The shalom bayis matter is a product of the problem, not a cause. This is one area where the average Rov will likely misjudge the situation, and address it from a wrong angle. Yes, each situation is different. But the general direction is easily bungled. Keep the professionals in the picture – they have much to contribute.
Since this post is unlikely to contain other than the obvious, I want to introduce an element of controversy.
It is all too often that people in the frum world suggest to turn to a Rov with marital problems such as this. I find that problematic. Most Rabbonim I know, albeit well meaning, have no idea when to guide such a couple toward reconciliation or divorce. Neither do they know when to have the wife confront the husband on his behavior, or allow her to continue to monitor it, whether by making observations or snooping. Many Rabbonim will listen to one side, get “hooked”, and become oblivious to even stark facts reported by the other. The average Rov of a shul gets shell shocked when he assumes the mantle, rises to the pulpit, and discovers there is more to rabbonus than saying divrei Torah a few times a week, perhaps a daf yomi shiur, and getting honors at simchos. It can easily become a 24/7 job (yes, Rabbonim work on Shabbos) when they have to be available to counsel and guide their congregants and mispallelim through their personal difficulties. There was zero training for this in kollel!
I have learned to avoid the well intended but useless advice to contact a Rov for psychological and family problems. Without a doubt, there are some rabbonim who are astute, wise, and learned, and they may be capable of serving as personal guides for families in trouble. I also am a firm believer in ??? ?? ???? ?? ????? ??. Torah has the answers. To date, we have not figured out how to use Torah to determine whether a sore throat is strep or not. The Torah itself offers the advice to turn to the doctor. Mental health is no different. Our community is gifted with many frum mental health professionals who are qualified as both expert in their fields as well as yirei Hashem and bnai Torah. It is as competent for a psychologist or social worker to pasken shailos as it is for a Rov to undertake to do therapy. I know this will ruffle some feathers, but I anticipate lively and meaningful discussion.
I find threads on this subject entertaining. Many try to address the subject, but few can speak from knowledge, training, or experience. I can’t get worse than that, so here’s my shot at it.
Hashem created poison ivy. To date, there is no one with any clue what benefits it has. We finally watched the pharmaceitucal industry take botulism toxin and render it useful as Botox, a medication. One day, we might see more than a drug, Marinol, produced from marijuana. Till then, it should be illegal, its users sentenced to treatment, and its dealers imprisoned.
The long term risks from MJ are frightening. Study the science a little. Some earlier commenters mentioned the effect of turning stupid. True. How about all sorts of endocrine problems (hormonal disruption)? Of course, MJ can ruin the years in which a human being is doing most of their social and intellectual growth. No wonder some countries like Japan, where MJ users are eliminated, produce far more than United States.
I’m not familiar with Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan’s writings on this. But no one can proclaim that Ketores included Kinai Bosem (assumed to be the origin of the term cannabis). The posuk never mentions this in the ingredients of the Ketores. It is mentioned as an ingredient in the Shemen Hamishcho, which was used for annointing. It was not burned, and no one absorbed its smoke. This myth is one of the oldest in the Jewish addiction discussions, and it is baffling that the blind belief in this persists.
Here are several ideas that are worth trying.
1. Let every tefillo include a silent, personal request from HKB”H. It can be in English, or whatever language you feel useful in expressing your desire. It can be a small thing (G-d, help me pass my history test today), or bigger issues such as success in parnosoh, shidduchim for your children, etc.
2. There are many seforim and books that provide much more information about our tefillos beyond the translation. What is the origin of a particular tefillo, when did it become part of the accepted nusach, what are the differences in nusach and what do they mean, what kavanos are appropriate for which parts of tefillo, etc?
3. Approach tefillo as an emotional experience that should leave behind a residual change. The Baal Shem Tov is quoted as stating, “If you are after davening the same as you were before davening, why did you bother?”
4. Take note of others davening. While there are some who appear to address davening as a chore, there are always those who are sincere. Perhaps there are mispallelim who are putting on a show, and are totally enveloped in their own egos. But the sincere people who are focused on relishing the opportunity to stand in the presence of the Shechina – take note of them. Don’t mimic them. Just join in the process.
5. Recall that each of us is a child of Hashem, and that he is only asking for a few precious minutes to speak to him every day. We take the three steps to approach our Father who wants to shower us with the shefa that is best for us. All He wants is for us to ask Him.
These are some ideas that may resonate. Try them out. See what works.
Dear friends:
Drinking is not assur. One needs to drink, if they choose to, in a manner that is consistent with Torah values. Getting drunk does not cut it. People who cannot handle alcohol should also not drink at all. Those who lack the maturity to drink responsibly should also not touch it. With these values in place, it becomes incumbent on those in charge to establish guidelines that are more specific. So laws that create a minimum drinking age make sense, though there are undoubtedly some older that cannot handle the decision of when to stop. And perhaps there are some younger who have that maturity. The question here is about yeshiva bochurim. In the long run, making something assur for a group because of the dangers to a smaller proportion of that group is sensible. Do all bochurim who drink get drunk or drink to excess? I’m sure the answer is no. But every yeshiva should establish a rule that is enforced with consistency that protects the population of bochurim. Not because “drinking” is assur, but because there is no way to insure safety if it was allowed.
As to the age of maturity, developmental psychologists have stopped considering 18 year olds adults. Many consider adolescence as ending at 20, some later than that. Then there is a new stage of “young adulthood”, and this extends even farther into the 20’s. I’m not beholden to any of these stage theories. But the position that children mature at 18 is long obsolete, at least in the field of psychology.
gregaaron:
No one gets to the 10th drink or cigarette until after they had the first.
If someone possesses the strength of character and judgment to stop after the first, then the first drink might not be an issue. I do not equate the first cigarette because of the conclusive research of the danger and damage. References available on that.
Generally, youth lack the ability of exerting the self control required to stop. Yes, they are young. Boys will be boys. That’s all true. It is not in vain that there are laws about minimum drinking age, and that these laws were originally written for age 18, then raised to 21.
It does take much less to establish the dependency to nicotine. And as long as the powerful motivators of peer pressure and social perceptions fuel either the smoking or imbibing, our young people will be oblivious to the negative consequences and risks, and will continue until there is trouble. It is not a small percentage, and our tendency to dismiss these as non-issues, or even as unimportant ones is dangerous. Our children’s health and lives are at stake.
gregaaron:
Please be corrected on the addictiveness of alcohol. There is a physical dependency that is among the most significant ones medically. Withdrawal from alcohol must be medically managed, as it is potentially fatal. The development of a physical dependency is statistically more likely when it is being used for its mind altering effects. But even if not, the addiction can happen. Because of how severe the risks can be, it is unwise to minimize this aspect of it. In my earlier comment, I noted that the casual drinking which is much less likely to lead to physical dependency is debatable, and I would side against it being allowed for bochurim.
You are absolutely correct in the addictiveness of a single cigarette. Actually, research indicates that it takes 4 cigarettes to establish dependency, and tobacco manufacturers actually handed out free packs of 5 cigs each many years ago to establish their customer base.
Reb Moshe paskened not light someone else’s cigarette. The “heter” that is derived from this ia mirage. All he stated was that it does not constitute ???? ???. Check the tshuvah.
havarka:
Just because something existed long ago should not render us oblivious to its dangers and violations of halacha. There were many problems in the past. Virtually every Torah prohibition was violated somewhere during history, and many were widespread and known. We should not take them any more lightly than a plague of disease. Yes, a person can be assessed by evaluating his situation ?????, ?????, ??????. Since when is drunkeness legitimate?
TOI:
Your comment is plainly irresponsible. Perhaps, one could debate whether to ignore casual drinking. I would certainly be among the machmirim, but I could entertain debate on it. But drunkeness is never acceptable. The medical label for drunkeness is “intoxication”. Translating that back into spoken English, it refers to a state in which the person is poisoned. That is never acceptable morally or halachically, and deserves the strongest efforts to stop it. Getting drunk Friday night, even if at a simcha is abonimable. It is NOT oneg Shabbos, it is NOT simcha, and it NOT muttar. That is every bit a serious as other “ossur” things other boys do, regardless of the environment they choose to act out.
Gavra:
I know my statement is provocative, but here goes. You stated that the Roshei Yeshivos, by not expelling bochurim who smoke, must hold that it is muttar. You draw distinction to how they would handle someone who has unfiltered internet. You are correct. If questioned, I dare say that there is not a single Rosh Yeshiva that could justify being more stringent about internet than tobacco. If anything, smoking is a definite damage, and the issur is based on a certain result. Internet, as dangerous and risky as it is, has applications that are kosher. Poskim are correct in requiring filters and monitors. But the risk is still a percentage (albeit a big one).
What is at hand is that these same Roshei Yeshivos spent their learning years in yeshivos that did not assur smoking. My own experience was returning to the beis hamedrash after the morning shiur for mincha, and finding a thick cloud hovering from the ceiling down to a few feet from the floor. The issur is viewed as a chiddush, and not as accepted. Internet was never accepted as muttar, so they are less tolerant.
To me, the distinction is one of ignorance. Sorry that I speak thus of Roshei Yeshivos.
Health:
Reb Moshe ZT”L NEVER said muttar. I have heard that stated many times, yet no one has ever succeeded in finding where he saud muttar. The tshuvah that this “heter” is attributed was a question of whether one can supply a match (or lighter) to a smoker, considering this being a possible aveiro of ???? ??? ?? ??? ?????. Reb Moshe clearly states that smoking should NOT be done, but that there is inadequate information to make this ???? ???.
I suggest that the tshuvah published by the RCA be reviewed. It addresses the subject in great detail, and explains the parameters of each and every concept involved ???? ???, ???? ????? ?’, etc. I classify myself as more right wing than RCA, but that tshuvah is incredibly accurate and responsible. Google it. It is available as a pdf file for download.
The problem is not the story. We have enough volumes of maasselach on our shelves, written in Hebrew, Yiddish, and English with thousands of stories. I do not question whether they are all true, because most could be even if they did not happen. And all have needed messages. What is being asked here, besides the kashes oif maases, is the appropriateness of this story to guide young girls about tznius. This is the chinuch aspect pointed out earlier, and the use of the fire and brimstone is something I find a threat to our ability to be mechanech our children.
I am offended by the title of this post that suggests that smoking is muttar, just wondering why. It is NOT. A thread in the CR a few months ago is worth revisting, so I will not repeat the huge list of poskim that have spoken about the clear issur. I will entertain any arguments that anyone wants to advance here, but I accept the psak of nearly all gedolei hador – smoking is assur.
There is another point I wish to add to my comment above. At every juncture in life, we are beset with the challenges of milchemes hayetzer. We always have within us the voice guiding us to follow the Will of Hashem and the corresponding Yetzer Horah that cajoles us to folow the negative direction. What I believe happens is that the admonishments that are intended to frighten us away from sinning actually energize the Yetzer Horah. If we handle the positive side well, then we strengthen it enough to overcome the Yetzer Horah. But that task becomes more difficult if we have just fueled the Yetzer Horah with the “fire and brimstone” messages, which is exactly what he wants to hear.
This explanation is suggested numerous times in the seforim of R’ Klonymos Kalman of Piesceznye. This is why he states his position so many times about concentrating on the Yemin Mekareves, as opposed to the weaker Smohl Docheh.
This is a frightening trend in our chinuch system, though the fundamental flaw exists in every one of us.
I suspect that there has probably never been a generation that had as many built in chumros in shmiras hamitzvos. We can provide Cholov Yisroel almost anywhere on earth. We have kosher lamps and phones. We can minimize chilul Shabbos in hospitals with gramah based apparatus. We have increased our range of chesed to virtually hundreds of gemachs for countless things. We have rules in place that our talmidim come to yeshivos with white shirts only. Our girls have uniforms that guarantee tznius standards. We even have rules in yeshivos and girls’ schools that expel talmidim and talmidos if there is a compromise in tznius in the home (or deny them admissions), even the men from non-chassidishe circles have peyos and beards, and there is probably more Torah being learned today than ever in history. We are seriously deficient in one thing (maybe more, but I focus on this one). Ahavas Hashem. We are too preoccupied to dedicate our concern and concentration to become closer to Hashem and to fulfill His will.
I quote a story mentioned by Rav Dessler ZT”L in the Michtav Me’Eliyahu. A mashgiach once asked a talmid who davened a lengthy tefillo with hislahavus, “Tell me, at which point during davening do you concentrate on standing before Hakadosh Baruch Hu?” The talmid answered that he is much too busy with his thoughts of the meanings of the words and the awareness of halachos about where he can be mafsik that he does not have capacity to entertain thoughts of standing before the Shechinah. Rav Dessler decries the foolishness of this logic. But have some of us gotten there?
We hear much about students in yeshivos “complying with rules”. It would be chaotic otherwise. But have we “ruled” our yeshivos away from true learning? Have we stripped our talmidim away from “Ratzon Hashem” for the gain of “Ratzon Hayeshiva”?
When we need to resort to these “fire and brimstone” stories, we have banished the entire mission of bringing Ahavas Hashem to our younger generation. Is it a wonder that we struggle with way too many children who observe the consistent hypocrisy and seek fulfillment in the gashmiyus worlds of entertainment, street life, and chemicals? These children are not drop outs. They are throw outs. We pushed then there by hiding Ahavas Hashem from ourselves and from them.
I am not offended by this story, and I have no reason to question its validity. And there are many such recountings of events that can and should throw some pachad into our souls. What is questioned is the messages we give to our children. Good question. Is anyone on the chinuch end listening? What kind of answers are there?
Certain things are so elementary and simple that explanations would be wasted. Those than understand already do. Those that can’t understand won’t be helped. I am sorry if you can’t figure out the “dai machsoro” of the infertile couple. There is not even a shred of logic in your moshol of the pool. You can cool off in numerous ways. There is no chazal that considers your inability to cool off comparable to death.
Not only do some executives of charities derive huge salaries, but so do some of the fund raisers themselves. The average meshulach can take 50% of the donation as his pay. That is why they work so hard to obtain larger donations. (Not a bad incentive.) Some drivers that shuttle meshulachim around some frum neighborhoods are also greedy and take a percentage of the till. It is true that not every dollar given to a fundraiser reaches its target; some goes to pay the collector and the expenses of the process. We can (and sometimes should) examine that to see if it is excessive.
Mr. FrumGuy:
I assume you were asking your question innocently, but I found it extremely insensitive. Some commenters were on the mark in noting that we can pick and choose our tzedokos to some degree. However, your question inquired whether this was a tzedokoh or not, and that is offensive, even if you denote that you don’t intend to offend. If you understood anything about the infertile couple, their situation is one in which they lose the will to live, with every moment of every day being painful. I won’t expound on that; check out the Bonei Olam website. If tzedokoh is “Dai machsoro asher yechesar lo”, then this tzedokoh is right up there among the highest.
However, there is another matter involved here. We earn Hashem’s gifts on the merit of what we do for others, midoh kineged midoh. If we are gracious in helping others have children, we earn the merit of nachas from ours. If we get choosy about giving to others, then Hashem can treat us midoh kineged midoh and check us out before granting us anything. I am not making up this concept – it is well referenced in many seforim.
True hisnagdus to chassidim is obsolete, B”H. There were once true talmidei chachomim who understood nuances of chassidic thought, and took issue with it. Incidentally, I believe that the Gr”A never actually signed the cherem, but that he did not oppose it. The signatores were his talmidim. That might be verified by others here whose knowledge of history is better than mine. Regardless, the belief at that time was that the chassidic movement was a departure from Torah based Yiddishkeit. There were many events since then that have convinced the Litvishe Torah world that this is untrue.
As Yiddishkeit grew in America after WWII, it became clear that chassidus was one of the elements that facilitated transmission of Torah and Yiddishkeit to the next generation. The yeshivishe world eventually recognized that, and the split was recognized to be artificial, and frankly an obstacle to growth. While others might be equipped to identify specific personalities who helped accomplish this, I think it is safe to say that the past several decades have led to the demise of true hisnagdus. For that, we should all be grateful.
abcd2:
The tefilloh of Lecha Dodi of R’ Shlomo Alkebetz is certainly one of the great inclusions into Kabolas Shabbos. However, it is notable that this beautiful song only references the subject of Shabbos in the first two stanzas. From there to the end, the focus turns to the golus, particularly the desolation of the makom hamikdosh. Only at the end of the final stanza is there casual mention of Shabbos, with Nusach Sfard actually saying the words “Shabbos Malkesoh” in Aramaic, and Nusach Ashkenaz referring to Shabbos only symbolically with “Bo’ey Chaloh”.
The sefer “Seder Hayom” contains a nusach for Lecho Dodi that substitutes completely different stanzas after the first two, and makes no reference to the churban or golus. There is only a song to Shabbos. I am not sure who composed that version of Lecha Dodi.
Itchesrulik:
Point by point response.
1. All siddurim were copies of previous ones, though they were made by publishers, not rabbonim themselves who sought to codify the nusach. In that effort, Heidenheim was the one who took the lead, both historically as well as practically in publishing his siddur. What do you know about Heidenheim later in life regarding being other than a talmid of R’ Nosson Adler? Please provide references. The Chasam Sofer references him often with great kavod.
2. When I refer to “popular” nuschaos, I refer to the common, standard publications of siddurim used in most shuls. The chassidishe nuschaos suggested here are still based on choices made by publishers, who might be nice people, but not necessarily those who I would seek to be koveya a nusach. Artscroll used Heidenheim for reference, but so did many of the earlier published siddurim of Nusach Ashkenaz.
3. As far as kaballah, I do not make specific recommendation about that. All I noted, based on tshuvos from the Chasam Sofer and the Divrei Chaim is that a nusach that is based on the kaballah from the Ari is considered a nusach that is inclusive – it contains all the elements that the specific nuschaos of each shevet had. That is why the Divrei Chaim paskened that one may switch from Ashkenaz to a Nusach Ha’Ari. The logic, as I gather, is that this is not considered a switch away from the original nusach. I also acknowledged the greatness in kaballah of the Gr”a (who needs no haskomoh from me).
The background to the proliferation of nuschaos is that each shevet had its own nusach that corresponded with its individual derech of avodas Hashem. These nuschaos were lost with the golus, and the prevalent nusach hatefillo was established in each of the major communities, Ashkenaz (Germany and neighboring lands), and Sforad (Spain and neighboring lands, including North Africa). These predate the printing press, so that the central establishment of anything was a fixed thing, though the hand copying of all texts meant that human error and modifications were common. I do not know enough about the nuschaos of Sfard, but the first one to publish the Ashkenaz siddur with any attention to true nusach was R’ Volf Heidenheim, who was a talmid of R’ Nosson Adler, and a chaver to the Chasam Sofer. He published his siddur 8 times, with changes in each printing, as he became aware of nuances that required change.
There was a sefer on tefilloh that was printed in Berlin in 5545 by Yitzchok Stanov (Vaye’etar Yitzchok) in which he proposed various pshotim on tefilloh together with changes in Nusach. A study of history reveals that this fellow, albeit knowledgeable, was a maskil, and far to the left even among maskilim. Despite this status, many of the changes he made became popular and incorporated into the siddur. As R’ Volf Heidenheim became aware of this source as the background for certain aspects of nusach, he changed them back in the next printing of his siddur.
Today’s Ashkenaz is based primarily on R’ Volf Heidenheim. Much of the popular Nusach Sfard is similarly based on Heidenheim.
Bottom line is that today’s popular siddurim, both Ashkenaz and Sfard, lack the exactness that should really be found in the siddurim we all use (though Ashkenaz fares better than Sfard). In this climate, it is worthwhile to address nusach as something that has been established by someone with the knowledge in higher realms. In the Chassidishe world, this would involve any of several mesoros on nusach from the Ari. In the Litvishe world, one should examine the siddur from the Vilna Gaon who also attended to nusach from the realms of halacha and kabbala.
This question is actually a broader one, and is addressed in many of the tshuvos sforim of yesteryear. I cannot cite the exact reference, but the Divrei Chaim of Tzanz expounds on this issue. The Ashkenazic Jews had been davening what is known as Nusach Ashkenaz (presumably that which is labeled as such today). The adoption of Nusach Sfard (definitely not the nuschaos used by various kehillos of Sephardic Jews) is questioned as a departure. According to the Divrei Chaim, Nusach Ha’Ari is an inclusive nusach, and is avaiable to anyone. There are several different kabalos on what the exact Nusach Ha’Ari was. The siddur used by Chabad is labeled Nusach Ha’Ari, but is definitely not. It is the nusach compiled by the Baal Hatanya, based on Nusach Ha’Ari. There are glaring differences. In any case, it is not considered a departure to daven a general nusach, especially one based on the kabala of the Ari.
What remains a serious question is the marketed Nusach Sfard. It seems clear that the contemporary Sfard is a conglomeration of whatever the publisher decided to include. There are many proofs to this (references available). The common Nusach Ashkenaz is probably more accurate, but also not precise.
Tina18:
If the entire issue was legitimate, they would not resort to lying (“you were so nice to give us $18 last year), and they would not demand that you hand off your credit card numbers to a total stranger. I’m not about to judge every tzedokoh request I get, as I would not want my requests of HKB”H scrutinized so closely either. But the purposeful and intentional lies and persistence beyond the capabilities of the giver are disqualifications. Just minutes prior to writing this comment, I received a phone call from an organization that was completely unknown to me. It began with the usual “false gratitude” for last year’s donation. I stopped the caller in his tracks, noting that I had never heard of them nor donated, and that the lie sealed my refusal to give them. I am not a tightwad, and give more than I’m able anyway. But to reward such lies, on top of the interference in my day’s work is simply unacceptable to me.
Halevai such “do not call lists” would work. Any legislation about phone solicitation specifically excludes non-profit organizations. I actually investigated the matter, since my office work is disturbed by these interruptions. Worse is that the caller introduces an organization that is completely strange to me, and tells me that I was “so generous to give $18 dollars last year”, begging to increase it for this year. My response is that this is a total lie, since I never heard of the organization, never pledge over the phone, and will not do so now. They then let their chutzpah shine, asking for my credit card. My answer is that I do not use credit cards, and would not share them with a stranger anyway. I never give them, despite their persistence. My tzedokoh dollars go elsewhere.
The persistence at raising funds is unfortunately not correlated in any way with the legitimacy of a true tzedokoh. What a shame that Yidden have stooped so low. I would prefer to cherish the beautiful mitzvah of tzedokoh.
The music publication field is in bad shape. It is costly to produce a cd. There are huge expenses for the performance of the music and singing, the recording, the arranging, the mixing and mastering, followed by the duplication/packaging and the advertising. Some singers who put out cd’s are investing in their popularity, and the cd is just an expensive business card. Regardless, the costs are quite high, and without charging the $15 or more, there is no way to recoup costs. There is no profit in this industry. So the concerns begin with the financial aspect, and then, of course, whether one wants the music to spread in popularity. For the latter, there is good reason to have mp3 versions sold. Otherwise, doing it that way is a loss.
It is beyond impressive. I have waited long and hard to hear one of our gedolim call it what it is. The chinuch situation has deteriorated to where mosdos are more concerned with their “image” than with the mission of insuring that each and every talmid can grow to succeed in life as a ben/bas Torah. When these menahalim speak on behalf of their yeshivos, we blindly believe they are sacrificing for the public good. Since yeshivos are not part of a greater system but actually competing with others, they need to address how their yeshiva is “better” than another. So in their quest for exclusivity, the welfare of a talmid (or potential talmid) is neglected. Rav Shteinman is perfectly right – it’s all gaava.
It would be a good idea that Yeshivaworld provide the link to the Rav Shteinman video clip or to embed it on the site somewhere.
The discussion here is about kids that are NORMAL, not weaker. And for a wide variety of excuses, our yeshivos (that are constantly pressuring us to support them, even in hard times) are saying no. What these yeshivos are essentially doing is giving the ultimate rejection. We are not referring to any yeshiva who lacks the extra services refusing to accept a talmid that needs these. We are loking at the stark refusal to do the job they tell the world they fulfill by all their fundraising events. What blatant contradiction.
Often, the word is that there is no space. This is a lie more often than the truth. If the rejection occurred after classes were filled, it might be a valid excuse (maybe not a reason, but an excuse). But we are looking at early applicants that are turned down for arbitrary reasons. If only the philanthropists who support these mosdos would examine the admission practices and rebel against those who are so CRUEL, we might see some of these corrupt, egotistical, selfish, and sadistic attitudes change.
I was aware of this segulo as it was mentioned in the sefer Taamei Haminhagim (in a footnote) quoting a letter from Rav Benzion halberstam of Bobov. Actually, that reference would have remained obscure, but today, this segulo experienced the same thing as the mitzvah of mishloach manos on Purim – it became a business. Today, the segulo of Chai Rotel is to donate money to an organization (that claims it will give the measure of chai rotel in Meron). Much the same, mishloach monos is now to be fulfilled by donating money to a yeshiva or kollel. While I am not against tzedokoh or supporting yeshivos and charitable organizations, it is getting sickening to see mitzvos and segulos being hijacked for personal gain for a mosad.
There are many types of boys who fit into this “push out” category. Some are just not metzuyanim. Some are academically good or better, but struggle with any of several social issues. Sometimes the boy is a victim of bullying, in which it is typical that the bully is retained and the victim let go. I personally know boys in each of these situations. Sometimes the boy lacks the internal motivation to learn, and while compliant, lacks the “bren” that is expected. There are those who do not “tow the line” with regards to the chassidus and Rebbe of a particular chassidishe yeshiva. There is a parallel to this in more Litvishe yeshivos, as well.
The bottom line is that the Chazon Ish (who was niftar in the early 1950’s) stated that the initial mission of yeshivos after the holocaust was to transplant mosdos for Torah learning, which was to insure the tzibbur had this pillar of existence. But this had already been accomplished, and the mission needed now to focus on the yochid, the individual, to insure that each talmid was guided to their potential success. That dictate of the Chazon Ish appears to have been utterly ignored by most of what we identify as mainstream chinuch. When we have a talmid that needs the extra individual attention, the situation is perceived as “another headache”, or a drain on the yeshiva and its rebbeiim. These are the talmidim that get pushed out, to preserve the image of the yeshiva.
Much of the time, the kids that are pushed out are labeled as cancers that spread and destroy other boys. That justification is used continually, and is rarely true. But once a menahel says it, the boy is labeled, and this even justifies those menahalim that follow the pushed out boy with negative reports, preventing another yeshiva from accepting him.
I know I have just listed a stack of accusations. Trouble is, they are true and accurate. Instead of throwing dirt at chinuch, it is more effective to seek contacts with those in positions of authority, and gradually bring about change in how yeshivos address their mission in chinuch.
This problem is widespread. There are hundreds of bochurim and girls out of yeshivos who are mainstream (not OTD). These children initially cry and beg, face continued rejections, and eventually settle in to despair. Many become rebellious, having not “dropped out”, but have been “pushed out”. Our yeshivos and schools are not part of a system that must answer to a higher authority. They are competitive. Each one sees itself as having a specific mission, and proving education to a specific child is not included in that mission. I have yet to meet the menahel that states that he feels a responsibility to insure that a specific talmid gets into a yeshiva. The typical is that the menahel addresses the issue as “not my problem – let the parents deal with it”. There is now a new field of work – placement professionals. These are askanim that dedicate much of their waking hours to pushing yeshivos to accept the talmidim that are nowhere. They hear the continuous rejections.
There are usually valid reasons given. My classes are full (or overfull), and there’s no more room. It is the middle of the zman. If another yeshiva won’t accept him, why should he become my problem? Etc. If the menahalim that say this had a vested interest in that child, there would already be space, and the calendar date would not matter. It is an old discussion that today’s mosdos hachinuch do not address each and every talmid as an individual, feeling like a surrogate parent with the vested interest that this particular talmid succeed.
Having addressed the severity of the problem, it is noted that there are those in the inner circles of chinuch that have begun to address this issue in many different ways. Change does not happen overnight, but there are yeshuos in the making. With Syatta Dishmaya, the efforts of many askanim will succeed in bringing chinuch closer to the potential of no child left behind.
apushatayid asked the obvious question, “What pressures?”
In reality, there could be many sources of pressure. Having learned in E”Y quite some years ago, I can guess at some questions that may trouble an American bochur in E”Y.
1. Am I am learning to the level appropriate for the yeshiva where I am? Should I feel guilty if not?
2. When not in yeshiva (off hours, weekends, bein hazmanim), what should I be doing and with whom?
3. In whom can I confide when I have any issue, even a little one, that I want to discuss?
4. Should I join the groups of bochurim that go for Shabbos meals to gracious machnisei orchim who are total strangers? It makes me feel cheap, like a beggar.
5. While learning in E”Y might be great, there are also many distractions. How can I deal with this conflict?
6. Some of my friends are getting engaged or married. I am not even getting “redd a shidduch”. Is something wrong with me?
You can think of others. Regardless, drinking alcohol as an outlet is never acceptable as consistent with Torah value.
Drinking as an outlet is abominable for anyone, adult or teen alike. One may check up what the Rambam says about the myth that intoxication can contribute in any positive way to avodas Hashem. He states that these are diametric opposites. One of the ideas that we have gleaned from exposure to the goyishe velt is the behavior of drinking for pleasure’s sake – the “outlet”. Alcohol does not solve problems of any kind, ever. In Torah life, alcohol has a very limited and prescribed use. It is to be part of a mitzvah, not the goal of an altered state of mind. It graces our mitzvos of kiddush, chupah, bris milah, arba kosos, and the ritual of l’chaim. Once it is exploited for anything else, we are steeped in pure gashmiyus, and this not only has no spiritual value, but actually redirects the drinker away from Torah and spiritual life. There is NEVER a heter for use of alcohol (or other intoxicants) as an outlet.
avhaben:
Your attack on mental health professionals is unfortunate, and your recommendation of rabbonim or gedolim here is frightening and dangerous. You have the picture backwards.
For one, therapists are not enthused or even indifferent to OTD. It is not normal, and is not condoned by therapists. To the therapist who is a goy or not frum, the behaviors we define as OTD may not appear as abnormal. But that therapist fails to judge a client by the culture from which he comes – a grave error. Fortunately, there are many frum therapists with expertise in this parsha. You can get referrals to them via the Nefesh International organization (nefesh.org), and Relief Resources is a referral agency for the range of mental health issues that is spectacular.
Secondly, the greatest Rav or Posek may lack the competence to pasken or guide a situation in which he has no familiarity. This is not to minimize their Torah knowledge, but to recognize that there are many facts on the ground that must be known before achieving the competence and exeprtise to become a halachic authority in matters of halacha lemaaseh. Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach ZT”L invested many hundreds of hours studying about electricity before paskening shailos of chilul Shabbos related to chashmal. Most rabbonim do not understand kids at risk or OTD unless they invested much time with the subject. An earlier comment mentioned Rav Gluck of Areivim or Rav Zecharia Wallerstein. Both are active full time in dealing with this parsha. And there are others. But the true gadol will turn to professionals and seek their guidance, to which I am personal witness. As an earlier comment noted, you do not turn to your Rav to fix your car, nor to unplug a drain. I welcome the input from rabbonim and gedolim, but I reject guidance that has no basis of experience in the subject. This is not a swipe against Torah chas veshalom.
Bocher613:
Your statement is hard to believe. I insist on references. Otherwise, I assume it is inaccurate. It is identical to claiming that chazzer is assur, but only the first time.
The Chofetz Chaim, in one of the maamorim in which he proclaims smoking as assur, highlights the submitting to an addiction as assur. One may be meshubad to HKB”H, not to anything or anyone else.
The question of ??? ???? ??? ??? may actually be a different halacha in E”Y and US. However, this assumes it is mutar to do altogether. The rate of smoking has decreased in E”Y, although it is far more epidemic in E”Y than in America. Those rabbonim who continue to smoke in E”Y have either disconnected themselves from listening to halacha (see the poskim above who paskened clearly that it is assur) or have decided for themselves that it would be too difficult for them. I do not know how to justify their behavior. However, with all the Torah knowledge they may possess, I would not accept any of them to serve as eidus by the chupahs of my children, since they are definitely being oveir an issur. Quoting poskim or others who spoke about smoking before its dangers were known is irrelevant to a discussion of halacha, since we must judge by the present accumulated information. And it is without any doubt that smoking is assur.
By the way, all those I know that smoke do so on Yomtov as well. And there is a serious question of whether it can be done on Yomtov even if it were to be somehow mutar at other times.
If someone asked me if eating chazzer is mutar, I would have no problem saying that it is assur. I do not have to be a posek to know that. The same situation is true for smoking. Scientific research is conclusive that smoking is injurious to the human body, even a single cigarette. It is also clear that regular smoking causes a variety of illnesses, many with fatal outcomes. I do not feel that I am taking on an authoritative role as a posek when I state that it is 100% assur. Rather, I challenge anyone to find a heter for it, based on the current body of scientific knowledge. Don’t start with quoting a heter from rav Moshe Feinstein or Rav Elyashiv. Neither of them ever said it is mutar. Now, who did?
Here is the main reference to the issur psakim against smoking. The sefer is called “Chaim Lelo Ishun” written by Rav Yechezkel Aschayk, published in Eretz Yisroel several years ago (publication date is missing). The letters of haskamah are open and specific. The haskamos are from: Rav Shteinman, Rav Moshe Shmuel Shapiro, Rav Michel Yehuda Lefkowitz, Rav Shmuel Halevi Wosner, Rav Nissin Karelitz, Rav Yerachmiel Gershon Edelstein, Rav Boruch Dov Povarsky, Rav Matisyahu Salomon, Rav Shimon Bedny, and Rav Yitzchok Zilbershtein. The other names listed in my previous are quoted in the text of the sefer. Most include the exact language. There is also a letter (dated Menachem Av 5764) that concerns the issur to begin the smoking addiction signed by Rav Moshe Shmuel Shapiro, Rav Michel Yehuda Lefkowitz, Rav Aharon Lein Shteinman, Rav Shmuel Auerbach, and Rav Nissim Karelitz. Rav Elyashiv added his signature to that letter. It is true that this letter addresses the issur to begin smoking, but it also states clearly that smokers must wean themselves off of it, and should never smoke in public places where it can bother others. However, in contrast to an earlier comment, this letter does NOT state that it is muttar to continue smoking because it is a tzorech. I request a reference to such a statement from Rav Elyashiv.
I also call attention to an earlier sefer “Pe’er tachas Efer” that addressed the issur against smoking.
There is also a lengthy psak about the issur against smoking issued by the RCA. This psak discusses all earlier teshuvos from poskim on the subject, including the parameters of “Shomer psoyim Hashem” which was mentioned in one psak from Rav Moshe Feinstein. This RCA psak is available online.