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My point is that he was not using Taama diKra. It was Halachic logic. Techeles Paturs the clothing, for whatever reason.
No doubt that it was not the job of Sanhedrin to put up street lights. But declaring war did have to pass them. The Gemara tells of the Sanhedrin going to meet Nevuchadnetzar in the time of Tzidkiyahu (although that Gemara seems to weave in and out of a literal depiction). Lay leaders are useful and important but the direction and official position of the Jewish community can only be that of its Rabbonim. This is the way it always was, and you do seem to agree. I don’t think LF took it further than this.
I am saying that to answer your question. He was using terminology of Patter and Mechuyav to show that following Halachic logic doesn’t make sense. Your question was about the reason, but he didn’t have your Kasha of wearing Techeles in any other form. Besides, your question is more general than it sounds. Why shouldn’t three corners be Mechuyav?
And what happens if you switch watches and the witches are to big for their britches?
Sam, what exactly is the unwritten Mesorah. You said that nobody is arguing that the Rabbonim lead the generation. I assume you meant like Rebbe Yochanan ben Zakkai or like the Rabanan of that generation. Like Shmuel (the Amora) in his generation and like Mar Yehuda in his, who although were not the Reish Galusa, they were the ones to negotiate with the king. And the Jewish position on things were always decided by the Rabbonim. You said that nobody argues on this.
Is it business advice that you have a problem with? Is it coming for a Bracha that you have a problem with?
The reason Achronim refrained from mixing in to Machloksim of the Rishonim is because they recognized the greatness of the earlier generations and they knew their own ???. Since it is not a Din but rather it was self understood there were exceptions to the rule.
In Divrei Agada, everyone has a right to say his own Pirush. You aren’t breaking away from anything when you have your own Pshat in why Yaakov sent nuts to Yosef in Mitzrayim, and whether Avraham Avinu recognized that they Malachim. These aren’t aspects of Emuna either. Taking this freedom and applying it to aspects of Emuna, when you actually are breaking away from the Emuna of Klal Yisroel, is a tremendous leap. It is a leap that the Rambam obviously did not make.
Cable is not that expensive.
Forget about the reason, he was arguing Halachicaly.
Actually, a peek at Rashi and Tosafos would show you that they did not have Taanis directly after Rosh Hashana.
Perhaps because that spot is the first large area that falls between the field of vision of both eyes.
rebyidd, you stole the script from the cell number tracking sites.
I don’t know if you should call that Gilgul. Gilgul is a deep concept that has to do with the Neshama. This seems to be about the same person being born again (which is what the Emunos Vedei’os addressed).
Anyhow, I know someone who did this and it sounded fascinating. Later on he started wondering if the questions and prodding created the person in his imagination. Who knows, but sure sounds like fun.
Some stories are not said as Mussar for you to be acting that way, but rather to reveal the depth and dimensions of Avodas Hashem. When you think you are near the top step you start slowing down. When you get a sudden glimpse of where the top step really is you pick up speed again. (Unless you are of the type that gives up because of that, which is what the Mishna addresses, Hamelacha Meruba… Velo Alecha Hamelacha Ligmor.)
When you hear a story of a lofty Madreiga what you can do is to take some part of that idea which is within your reach. For example, instead of saying, “I came with three others,” you can say, “There were four of us.”
But the truth is, if I were outside my Rebbe’s door I wouldn’t either announce myself as ‘me’.
If that guy can do it…
The problem with the elephant community is that it is very hard to serve them with inspirationals, since they remember all the old ones and you can’t recycle them.
There is a Mitzva of taking/separating Challah when you bake bread,or what we call Challah. There is a point in baking just so that you can do this Mitzva. However, only you know what you are holding by.
Would you rather they say they’ll get back at you?
RebYidd asked, “You have a husband again? ”
It’s nothing new:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/is-this-muttar#post-263796
… but …
“I couldn’t care less.”
Well, please try.
Sure we can fly. Birds fly by using their wings and we fly by using our brains.
Charlie, if you want to print an old classic for your kids to read do you have to leave in all the negative racist remarks?
Drinking too much is hard on the kidneys. It seems like the eight cups, which sounds like too much is in fact too much. But it depends on your climate and activity.
I don’t think it qualifies as an acid. It is completely neutral. It was a major by-product off the Hindenberg explosion.
“nebach an apikores is not an apikores” applies to fundamentals of Judaism, as in HKBH, Torah, Chiyuv Mitzvos. I told you early on in this conversation that Apikursus is not just the basic fundamentals. This idea of Nebach an Apikores doesn’t apply to a certain wrong idea. It means that when someone, for whatever reason, doesn’t subscribe to listening to Hashem and His Torah, he is not Jewish.
Rational gave a good explanation. They were mistaken, since they believed something that happens to be heresy. The question you posed to him does not go against his point. It could be asked before he made that point. It is the next stage that you were waiting to put up. But the question of if those in earlier times are heretics was answered.
As to your next point, it is not as if we have two prevalent Shitos. There was an obscure view which was rebuffed all around by all the famous Rishonim. This applies to Reb Hillel as it applies to anonymous “Gedolim Mimenu’s.”
Besides, I take issue with the famous new idea that we can’t Pasken beliefs, which comes with many Yotzei Min Haklalim. The Maggid Shiur you mentioned who lambasts Daas Torah based on his Rebbi’s final decision (and who quotes his Rebbe reverently about all types of non-Torah topics), also holds that when it comes to the 13 principles there is a Psak, for some reason. Well, Moshicah is one of them.
Have 40 Rabbonim recite Perek Shira for you at Amuka.
There was alternate side today.
Never mind 38. Nobody believed the Gedolim in 42 — when they announced how bad things were.
We should have payed more attention to the Northern Goose, who left Hungary year after year.
So if a Kofer in Techeiles is also Kofer on Moshiach that might be a redeeming factor, since he won’t have Sam’s problem.
Logician, if you are talking about asking a Baal Ruach Hakodesh and hoping for a Havtacha that is not this concept of Daas Torah which is being discussed here. A Gadol, or any serious person, knows what he can answer and won’t say what he doesn’t know.
ZD, that is slander. There is one Rav who is famous for having said that. Others incouraged escape long before anyone believed them. Others taught people how to jump from trains before people knew what they were. It was Rabbonim who were at the forefront of seeing ahead and understanding very well the personalities involved. It was others who stood in their way. Then they tried turning the tables.
Brining exactly one incident to draw from is not quite an honest way to make a conclusion, especially if that incident didn’t have much to do with insight. This is besides the fact that it is a big misrepresentation of the facts to state what you are stating, unless you are talking about before anything started, in which case it is a silly argument.
Those at the forefront are the Einei Ha’eida, and they have a perspective of a big picture. They lead Klal Yisroel, inasmuch as they are listened to, to what is best for Klal Yisroel.
The idea of looking to non-Torah leaders to lead is in fact an old one, as it says, Nitna Rosh Vinashuva Mitzrayma. But we know the Torah’s perspective on that and how it turned out.
You are purposely referring to those Rabbanim who advised not to leave and to those laymen who said to leave. This is not a fair argument. If a Rav said Europe is about to explode and someone else said that it won’t, then who should they listen to?
There is a person for every view. Finding the one, after the fact, that turned out to be the case doesn’t show anything. If I run down every street yelling, “Your pot is bubbling!” and eventually it turned out true for someone, that proves nothing at all. On the flip side, when a sudden current swept away a professional swimmer that doesn’t put a shaddow on his professionalism.
People were not wholesale advised not to run. And if you are comparing, as many do, before anything started when Rabbonim kept people from going to places where they will lose Yiddishkeit while others urged people to go — not out of any long term understanding, but out of ideology — then you are comparing apples and pebbles.
You are actually picking on exception rather than the rule. Besides, in Poland nobody told anyone not to worry, so why didn’t they run? This is why I mention the Navi. It doesn’t help.
These points were raised earlier in the discussion.
Hakatan, just cut it out. I don’t think you are being honest about this. First of all you would never refer to Reb Chaim or the Brisker Rav as Rabbi Soloveitchik, so the name is not ambiguous. Second, why are you harping on this issue? You see that he takes it in a denigrading way. If you won’t change or apologize just follow your earlier recommendation to leave it at that.
The normal response to seeing someone get insulted or upset from your words is to back off, at least somewhat. Why keep on drilling?
Actually, my grandfather was there. What he said was that they won’t deport the Budapest ghetto, which they didn’t.
Don’t you think it’s odd that he would say not to run while running?
He is actually famous for having said that he can’t advise people in that time because, like the day of the Churban, the wellsprings were blocked.
Anim Zmiros actually takes the pains to explain how it is only a vision and not a depiction.
If you don’t think Machnisei Rachamim is telling the Malachim to do what is actually their job, what is it? The question is only the tone. There is no doubt here, if you understand the words, that it is not asking the Malachim for any Parnasa or success. It is about bringing our Tefillos to Hashem. That is their job. Is it praying to them? Good question.
We do know that we never pray to angels, and that for some reason even that Piyut is specifically on one topic. Those who continued this Piyut obviously didn’t think of it as praying to an angel, since they never engaged in that type of thing. When I say it, it is as the Maharal explained that it is not Tachnunim but rather a command. And if I wouldn’t know of this Pshat I would either have another Pshat or I would have a Kasha. But one thing I know it isn’t, a prayer to angels.
Charlie, that is just plain stupid (never mind my French). Why don’t we burn Shir Hashirim, which it is based on oncce we’re at it?
I would hold them responsible if they would have sabotaged rescue efforts. Did the Rabbonim do that? Did they declare that no one should escape?
The first four pages dealt with this so I have no reason to think this will change anything. One famous Rav is knows for having advised people not to go, up until a certain point. Many others understood what was coming before the activists.
People didn’t leave because people have inertia. Nobody advised my grandparents not to leave, and yet he left the last minute. It wasn’t even possible for many to leave.
And yes, there were Baalei Ruach Hakodesh who foresaw and spoke about what was coming. Did people just get up and go? It is a gross misrepresentation to say that they held people back. Before the trouble started people were indeed advised not to go to America where they will drop Yiddishkeit. That was the truth, not an intuition. And still, many came, with their rabbi’s blessings.
Yirmiyahu Hanavi knew about the Cchurban and all the deaths, why didn’t he get everyone to run away?
What kind of scenario are you depicting where a zionist leader would advise people that things are fine and that people stayed because of him? If he knew better but wanted to pacify the masses then yes, he is to blame. If those who decided to listen to him rather than to someone else ended up suffering, that wouldn’t be any different than any other advice that didn’t work out. If you don’t know you can only calculate. And a single extreme situation doesn’t prove anything about the ability to calculate.
The Sanhedrin made a mistake by being Mattir Tzidkiyahu’s Neder. Reb Zecharya Ben Avkilus made a mistake by having Rachmanus on Bar Kamtza. Yehoshua was fooled by the Givonim. Moshe Rabbeinu made a mistake by allowing the Meraglim, does that justify the calling of Atem Hemitem?
Yes, they believed in something that is heresy, but they were not heretics. They were mistaken.
Everyone agrees that we aren’t Davenning to the Malachim and that we shouldn’t. The question is how distasteful Machnisei Rachamim is.
It’s funny that you left out the other Pshatim if the Maharal. When there’s a point to make..
If you forget the last night every year, can you make a Bracha?
When you need a break. Bitula Zehu Kiyuma, so obviously counter Bitul is the new Bitul.
Or, when you learn very loud in a crowded area and disturb a lot of people from learning.
Although this Nareshkeit of how we pray to Malachim was refuted here, since it is so much fun to bring it up again, nothing will stop it from being repeated. The same goes for the famous Shita of “rishonim” that we only know existed from a reference of the Raavad who disagreed anyhow.
Something I’ve been seeing more and more lately is drivers that stop right in middle of the road to let off a passenger with packages, although there is ample space to pull over. Often, there are three open, legal parking spaces, but it doesn’t enter the mind that there are other people around.
ZD, that is used to show his brilliance. Notice how in that story (which copies are available of his drawing, btw) the Chazon Ish didn’t do the surgery, and nor did the person come to him instead of a doctor.
Your reference to a referal is probably basedd on experience. Not everyone that is famous is the best. And, very often, people go to the top notch doctor for a minor procedure and it is a waste of money.
In either case, the person didn’t go to a Gadol for a prescription rather than to a doctor. Are you trying to refute one point with an unrelated one?
It is very obvious he is talking about coming to ask personal business advice. Public issues were always decided by Rabbonim, including the Vaad Arba Aratzos. Every Rav had decrees and Takanos. Just imagine what would have happened to those who knew the calendar better than the Noda Beyehuda.
I’ll have to try auto-detect.
If he made a mistake and it was pointed out, then insisting on that refuted view is going against the Pesukim.
I am not that enthralled with Apikursus to think about it all day and ponder who’s in and who’s out. As I pointed out another time, people research topics that interest them. I keep on seeing this conversation, over and over again, of how far exactly may one go and not be, or be called, an Apikores. Is it really that interesting?