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I have never in my life been drunk, so I guess I don’t know.
I guess that makes this response useless.
I must also note there are indeed plenty of people who are affiliated with Ger but do not actually follow all of those rules and have more Yeshivishe-style lives and dress.
The OP said the boy said he would not want to follow all Ger stringencies – then it should be fine. But they should discuss the exact expectations from both of them in advance.
You should read the Haaretz article. (I think it was two parts.)
Just because Haaretz is generally anti-settlements doesn’t mean it’s anti-religious. Haaretz is the most neutral and even pro-chareidi secular newspaper in Israel. Gideon Levy regularly defends chareidim, and they have written numerous completely factual, objective and even positive articles about the chareidi world.
The badmouthing of Haaretz amongst chareidim is usually based on what they heard from Zionist acquaintances. Those chareidim badmouthing Haaretz usually never even once read anything from Haaretz themselves.
March 11, 2012 10:04 am at 10:04 am in reply to: Hebrew Transliteration by the Secular and Modern #860366Personally I find it such an eyesore that I think anyone who writes like that ought to be punished.
The Dutch are also great, though. Can you figure out these, as some examples?
Bereesjiet
Sjeemot
Wajeetsee
Besjallach
Mikeets
It’s useful to keep in touch with distant acquaintances, mostly. Close friends I speak with in ‘real life’, phone, IM, mail. Facebook is for those with whom you want to stay in touch but don’t really have any reason to stay in touch closely (examples: former coworkers, former classmates). It’s awesome for keeping in touch with people with whom you would otherwise lose contact. But it should NOT replace normal contact with close friends.
@oomis – my thoughts exactly.
Somehow, this story seems quite appropriate for today/tomorrow…
For gmail: your issue is easily fixed by clicking the options ‘wheel’ on the right top, then choosing “Compact”. Almost the way it always was.
March 2, 2012 3:58 pm at 3:58 pm in reply to: Problem Being Unable to Consume Much Alcohol – And Can't Get Drunk #866360@pba
I suppose because of the brocho. Grape juice is equal to wine whenever required – kiddush, havdoloh, chuppoh….
Beyond that, don’t know. In any case, there is no requirement to drink alcohol.
You follow yours, I’ll follow mine. Just don’t claim *all* poskim require one to get drunk, because that is not true.
I know the problem, but perhaps from a slightly different side: I mostly get angry when walking.
I get extremely annoyed when my rights on the road are violated by other road users. That includes, for example, drivers failing to let me pass at pedestrian crossings, where they are legally REQUIRED to stop. Once, for example, a car flatly refused to stop and let me cross while I was already mad about something else, so I hit and broke the car’s window with something I had in my hand. Obviously the driver wasn’t too happy, but well, I put him in his place and went on – it’s his problem, if he doesn’t stop to let me cross (where he is required by law to do so) then he shouldn’t expect me to just be a sitting duck and smile at him – he should expect me to get mad and if he has to suffer the consequences then so be it.
In other words, don’t ever try to deny me my rights as a pedestrian, anywhere, ever, especially when I’m in a bad mood. I know my rights and I demand them. I am not a piece of dirt you can ignore and whose rights you can violate just because I am walking and you are in a car.
The worst of all are, in E”Y, the school minibus drivers. They feel they’re above the law – they’re allowed to break any law, ignore everyone else, treat pedestrians like dirt, while peddling around with their smelly ancient relics of vehicles. One time one of them almost ran me down at a pedestrian crossing (another incident), I hit the side of his van (it was empty), so the guy came out and started threatening to beat me…. for getting upset at him failing to stop where he was required to do so?! Again – what do these people expect, that I should simply give up my rights and ‘accept’ the fact that they continuously flout all rules and pretend I am dirt?
Well, ok, rant is over.
Anyway, here is the solution: let’s ALL just keep to traffic laws and all just be polite and courteous in traffic. Typically, the violent ‘road rage’ criminals are the traffic offenders themselves.
Something I personally enjoy now and then is watching police reality shows online (is this kefirah?). There are quite a few of them around the UK, Netherlands, Germany and other countries, though the UK ones focus more on crime while the Dutch ones focus on actual road/traffic violations. These shows really give you an insight into 1) what can go wrong, 2) why is this behavior wrong, 3) what can you do to change it. It makes you realize what risks you’re taking on the road, the things that can happen. You get to see it from another point of view.
For an example, search on Youtube (are we allowed to mention that name here?) for “ukpolice3”, there are tons of videos there (Motorway Cops, Traffic Cops, Brit Cops, Night Cops – also a couple of other things I don’t watch).
I think these shows should be required viewing, for at least 50 hours or so, for anyone who wants to obtain a license.
March 2, 2012 2:25 am at 2:25 am in reply to: Problem Being Unable to Consume Much Alcohol – And Can't Get Drunk #866354About going to sleep, the Rav mentioned previously (Rav Avrohom Yitzchok Ulman ????”?, Rov of Givat Shaul (Yerushalayim) and one of the dayonim of the Badatz of the Edah HaChareidis) also told me it is not necessary at all to go to sleep, there is no need for that.
About the rest, I’ll repeat, for those who might not have seen it (such as Logician): there is absolutely no need to drink wine on Purim, grape juice is also fine, even just half a cup is enough.
I think you should consider seeing a psychologist, most of all. The way you describe it is too much; you need professional guidance to find the solution to this. In your case it’s not just the road but much more. It’s a question of proportionality – does your level of anger correspond to the reason for that anger? I suppose not. In which case it could be a multitude of things ranging from a personality disorder to stress, or any combination or anything else…
March 1, 2012 2:35 pm at 2:35 pm in reply to: Problem Being Unable to Consume Much Alcohol – And Can't Get Drunk #866335I asked Rav Avrohom Yitzchok Ulman ????”?, Rov of Givat Shaul (Yerushalayim) and one of the dayonim of the Badatz of the Edah HaChareidis.
He told me that on Purim, there is no requirement at all to drink wine. Grape juice is just fine. And even half a cup is enough.
Personally I do not drink wine (or alcohol) at all, except for miniature amounts occasionally when needed. On Purim and also Pesach, I only use grape juice.
A family member of me died from alcohol-related issues, I then (when I was still a child) decided I would always keep very far away from alcohol. So far I have never in my life been drunk and I probably drink as much alcohol in a year as an average person drinks in a week.
So, why care? You don’t like it, it gives you trouble – why bother? There is absolutely no requirement to ever drink alcohol. Not on Purim, not on Pesach, never.
Sam2 speaks wise words, I fully agree. I have too often seen the outcome of alcohol-related violence and accidents. Alcohol is a poison and a drug.
To some it may be useful and it may be used as a painkiller and relaxant (I know one person who specifically uses alcohol for this reason), and I do believe that is true, but getting drunk for fun is wrong, and alcohol carries, on the long as well as short term, serious health risks. Direct risks from getting drunk and doing silly things, and long-term risks from alcohol-related illness.
Did you know that not only liver disease is caused by alcohol?
How about numerous types of cancers? And tons more… I cannot remember the number of diseases for which I have seen alcohol being listed as a cause. Anyone with good knowledge in the field of medicine knows what I’m talking about.
Exactly the same reason(s) why I went into the medical field, before leaving that (as I went to E”Y) and ending up in IT.
I also believe working in the medical field is the best thing a person can do hashkofically. What could be a better job than healing people from injury and illness? Compare that with the accountants, the IT specialists, and many other professions…
Best bet is to find a good job and have a company sponsor you, I think. Best chance for that is if you have some specific skill in which languages are relevant – in my case, for example, fluent Dutch, Hebrew, and pretty good German, combined with a pretty high level of IT knowledge and experience. I actually had some opportunities in this direction but declined them because I’d rather stay in Europe for numerous reasons.
I don’t know about American hechsherim.
In E”Y there is a huge disagreement over this. Everyone has their own hechsher….
* Edah HaChareidis: Yerushalayim, accepted by pretty much everyone except a few isolated political types. Personally I have never met anyone who didn’t use Edah for kashrus reasons.
* Rav Landau: Bnei Brak, seen as highly reliable, but many Litvaks refrain from using it because he is affiliated with Chabad. Aside from that, everyone I know uses Rav Landau’s hechsher.
* Sheeris Yisroel: Bnei Brak, Litvishe hechsher. Many chassidim won’t rely on it – while the Litvishe will….
* Belz: accepted by many, but absolutely not accepted by anyone affiliated with the Edah.
* Agudah: per above, affiliated with Gur, generally seen as ‘less’ reliable.
Then there’s a couple of smaller hechsherim like Chasam Sofer Bnei Brak, Chug Chasam Sofer P”T, Rav Rubin, Beit Yosef…
Personally, having been previously affiliated with the Edah, I used to prefer their hechsher and, outside of Yerushalayim, Rav Landau (which the Edah-affiliated rabbonim generally allow for those affiliated with the Edah, but only outside of Yerushalayim).
But later, as I became a bit more open (like it or not), I came to realize that the ONLY issue involved is politics and ‘fake’ kashrus issues (ie, politicized semi-halachic issues), of the type of “we have a new chumrah and THEY don’t follow it as well, so THEY are a bad hechsher!”.
Thus, I used most of them. (Keeping in mind I don’t eat meat and fish – eliminating one major kashrus issue for me.) I really don’t believe the Belzer cheese (the blue one) or the Agudah cheese (the orange one) are somehow less kosher than the Edah cheese (the red one).
Life in Europe is great. Almost no hechsherim to choose from. Things are either kosher or not. Much better than this hechsherim-nonsense.
February 24, 2012 4:01 pm at 4:01 pm in reply to: Post-Yeshiva Dressing for Work and Everyday #853993Gateshead is not like that – far from it.
Contributing factor maybe is that we don’t have many Muslims/Arabs around here – there are very few in Gateshead, it’s almost exclusively ‘real’ English Geordies. And those there are, aren’t a problem.
February 24, 2012 3:01 pm at 3:01 pm in reply to: Post-Yeshiva Dressing for Work and Everyday #853990@Avi K: “BTW, by wearing a baseball cap aren’t you targeting yourself for anti-American types?”
Actually, it’s a baseball cap of the USS Ronald Reagan (CVN-76). Something I consider quite acceptable for a frum yid to wear. I wear it to show my support and gratitude to the US, including, specifically, its armed forces, to whom we owe quite a lot.
@ajk; Actually, I have never been to the Americas at all…
Safety is not an issue at all. Not a concern at all, heard so from several people.
Delays however seem to be more common with them, I heard – they are indeed the cheapest, so if you’re really tight on $$$ it would be a good idea, just don’t expect awesome quality and service.
(No personal experience.)
My wife recently got a Sony Ericsson Xperia Arc S (also known as LT18i). Pretty good phone, huge bright screen with really good battery life, running Android 2.3 and update to Android 4 (Ice Cream Sandwich) coming soon (guaranteed).
I think there might already be a newer version….
For Android I’d say:
* HTC are ok, I think, but too many models and they’re gone from the market way too fast (they release 1 model per week or so!), potentially making it very difficult to obtain accessoires or spare parts (such as cases or spare batteries);
* Samsung has, for us, an extremely horrible reputation for being liars and cheaters and not caring at all about support. Once you buy Samsung, you bought it – don’t expect any support at all;
* Motorola are very slow with updates, are (IMHO) mediocre phones, and quite expensive;
* with Sony, so far, we have had only (1) good experience…
February 24, 2012 8:18 am at 8:18 am in reply to: Post-Yeshiva Dressing for Work and Everyday #853984“Someone who is not in the military is prohibitted to wear a military uniform. Simalarly someone not in yeshiva is prohibited to wear the Yesivah uniform.”
That is without doubt, without nny single doubt, the most ridiculous thing anyone ever said here.
So you’re saying the tens of working chareidim I know around Yerushalayim, Bnei Brak, Kiryat Sefer, Beit Shemesh and Gateshead, should all stop wearing white shirts and start wearing colored shirts, and stop wearing hats and put on baseball caps instead, because they are not in yeshiva?
Could you give me a single source of a single rav who supports such an idea?
February 23, 2012 11:20 pm at 11:20 pm in reply to: What country besides US and UK are you from? #853555@Ken Zayn – since United Kingdom and Great Britain are synonyms (AFAIK), it would be Briton.
Yep – just confirmed: the official name of the UK is:
“United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland”
Thus, a person from that country would be either a Briton – or a Northern Irishman, I would guess, but I may be incorrect there, as Wikipedia lists this:
Demonym: British or Briton
Without leaving anything separate for the Northern Irish…
February 23, 2012 11:06 pm at 11:06 pm in reply to: Post-Yeshiva Dressing for Work and Everyday #853979I work in an office, in IT, between non-Jews (and a handful of chiloni Israelis), in the UK.
For me, whenever I leave the neighborhood, I go ‘undercover’. Just a plain simple conservative shirt – white, blue or brown – and neat pants, a black/blue sweater and a winter coat (more like a sort of skiing coat), and a baseball cap over my kippah. Haven’t experienced much antisemitism here, really, but I just don’t want to stand out too much (and become a target for harassment or common crime). At work, I do go around with kippah all day.
Inside the neighborhood I dress ‘frum’…
I’m probably the only person wearing a shtreimel on shabbos who then wears a red-and-black skiing coat and baseball cap to work on Sunday morning (I work Israeli days, with Israeli customers). Oh well, I’ve always been unique…
February 23, 2012 11:01 pm at 11:01 pm in reply to: Christie veto's the bill but the threat looms! what should we do??!! #853804@naisberg
However, we don’t live in a Torah country, but in the modern western world. You are absolutely right: according to our belief, polygamy is most definitely FAR less a problem than gay marriage.
But we should try to protect individual freedom along certain lines, with a reasonable limit. Again, as besalel also said: who gave us the right or obligation to impose *our* religion on anyone else? I, for sure, don’t think we have that right.
Polygamy is completely out of the question for other reasons, mainly because it hugely damages the social structure of any modern society. Can you imagine us allowing it? You do realize, I assume, that huge amounts of bochurim would end up as eternal bochurim? Yay, amazing idea……
I’m not going to waste any more time on this, I have more useful things to do.
February 23, 2012 8:08 pm at 8:08 pm in reply to: Wht it is time for Jews to get over the Holocaust #875961“chassidischer gatesheader- I cannot question your quote from “joods.nl” of 2005 (!!) and I will check that. I still don’t believe that 9 out of 10 commemorations are about the Holocaust.”
That site is long gone now. However I assure you it was true. I remember because we had a similar discussion about it there, then.
February 23, 2012 8:06 pm at 8:06 pm in reply to: What country besides US and UK are you from? #853549@Avi K – so now you’re a specialist on the UK as well?
If we’re in such a terrible state, would you mind explaining why violence here is so low that police officers do not carry firearms?
Would you care to explain why in the UK employees have a lot more rights than in the US?
Would you care to explain exactly how the UK health care system is inferior to the US – or Israeli – one? Here, everyone is entitled to free care automatically by virtue of being resident in the UK (you don’t even need to be a citizen – just legally resident).
February 23, 2012 7:35 pm at 7:35 pm in reply to: Christie veto's the bill but the threat looms! what should we do??!! #853800I am not continuing this discussion, no point in it. My point is clear. Those who fail to understand, or who fail to see the difference between this and polygamy – go find something else to do.
Oh well, can’t resist.
@naisberg
“TCG – surely you are not a hypocrite, and do support the legalization of polygamous marriage (not nearly as bad a toeiva marriage) as you do toeiva marriage. Correct, you are not a hypocrite?”
A few simple questions:
* how much of the population supports gay marriage?
* is gay marriage legal and problem-free in large parts of the modern world?
Now, answer the same questions for polygamy, please.
Plenty of songs…. Not one specifically.
Been listening to quite a lot of Mizrachi music recently, in particular Zion Golan. He’s good. Wish I could understand more of it though. 🙂
February 23, 2012 4:07 pm at 4:07 pm in reply to: What country besides US and UK are you from? #853543@Avi K – maybe, some day, I’ll settle somewhere for longer. (Not in a settlement though.) Hopefully that somewhere will be E”Y. Until then, I try to make the best of it. 🙂
February 23, 2012 8:52 am at 8:52 am in reply to: Wht it is time for Jews to get over the Holocaust #875955“chassidischer gatesheader- your comments are just plain false. not even in germany (of which i know a lot) do you have “9 ot of 10″ remembrances about the Holocaust.”
I am talking about things I witnessed myself. Why do you feel the need to flame/troll with “your comments are just plain false”? I guarantee you it is true. I witnessed it myself on the website “joods.nl” in 2005, which is the previous time I discussed this with others.
“And, the secular do indeed celebrate all the chagim, maybe not like you but they celebrate them quite well.”
Maybe secular Israelis, but not secular, assimilated Dutch Jews whose only affiliation with Judaism is in knowing they’re Jewish because their mother was Jewish whose mother was Jewish whose mother was Jewish, etc. I’ve met plenty of them, and quite a few told me they don’t want any affiliation with Judaism because “it is such a sad religion, almost everything they organize is about crying for the dead”. Some people told me literally that.
February 22, 2012 11:20 pm at 11:20 pm in reply to: What country besides US and UK are you from? #853534* Born and grown up in The Netherlands.
* Spent 1 year in the Czech Republic.
* Spent 6-7 months in Switzerland altogether on vacations.
* Spent 6 years in Eretz Yisroel.
* Spent almost 1 year by now in the UK.
To complete the list, let’s add countries visited:
Germany, Belgium, Poland, Italy, Austria, France, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein
Nothing really exotic… Never crossed to ‘your’ side of the Atlantic yet, but I sure intend to do so some day. Not planning to visit the NY/NJ area though – I’m thinking of the central/western areas, like Colorado, Utah, Montana, Washington state, Idaho, Wyoming, Oregon… those are the areas that look nice. Couldn’t care less about NY/NJ, Florida, California and the rest of the typical ‘tourist’ states.
February 22, 2012 9:11 pm at 9:11 pm in reply to: Wht it is time for Jews to get over the Holocaust #875945Yes, it is true.
In The Netherlands, literally 9 out of 10 events on the national Jewish calendars are Holocaust remembrance events. The Holocaust remembrance events outrank everything else.
The main and most important thing young secular, unaffiliated Jews know about Judaism is the Holocaust. That is the primary thing about being Jewish – being a 3rd generation survivor.
This is extremely damaging. Instead of focusing on our chagim, on happy things, they spend all their time mourning the past. For all of the remembrance days, large crowds show up: for 27 January (Auschwitz liberation day), for 4 May (Dutch memorial day), Yom HaShoah, and others.
But where are they on Purim? Where are they on Sukkos? Where are they on Pesach?
There is nothing wrong with remembering, but ‘Holocaust memorial day’ should be Tisha bAv, as our gedolim have always said. Some, such as Rav Shimon Schwab and the old Bobover Rebbe, and others, wrote kinnos.
Apart from the issur on making new special days (the English-Israeli Yated Neeman has a couple of articles about this from years ago), there is the issue that we should not create more and more sadness.
I post a link there: http://www.chareidi.org/archives5765/KDS65oyomshoa.htm Mods, I assume this really should be fine.
I remember the news story from when it happened. Did also hear the story about the girl(s) before.
February 22, 2012 8:52 am at 8:52 am in reply to: Shidduch segulah � One I have not seen before #858643bpt – I only saw your message from last year now. Beautifully written announcement. 🙂 Really nice.
As for this seguloh: didn’t need it myself B”H, however, I assure anyone that indeed, Rav Doniel Frisch ????”? was indeed one of the wisest and most respected Yidden of Yerushalayim. I never met him personally, but do recall hearing and reading some things about him. Anything he said should be taken seriously.
February 21, 2012 9:35 pm at 9:35 pm in reply to: Christie veto's the bill but the threat looms! what should we do??!! #853787besalel for President! 🙂
February 21, 2012 7:53 pm at 7:53 pm in reply to: Christie veto's the bill but the threat looms! what should we do??!! #853781Some people just don’t get it….
@Naisberg: what on earth does that have to do with it!? Don’t you realize the difference between the PUBLIC and the PRIVATE sphere? Are you so uneducated that you fail to understand the difference?
@Health: yes, as for secular common law, I do indeed believe in equal rights. There is nothing ‘liberal’ about that – actually I would rather classify myself as a leftist person, not rightist.
I never touched a cigarette in my life and never will. And neither will my children…
Have to say that here in Gateshead, the amount of frum smokers seems to be very low, immensely lower than in E”Y. If you ask me who I know smokes for sure – I have to say I can’t think of anyone right away…
February 21, 2012 8:27 am at 8:27 am in reply to: Christie veto's the bill but the threat looms! what should we do??!! #853778Precisely as besalel says. Good to see there are other sensible people around.
littleapple & jewishness: I rest my case, in lieu of besalel’s explanations which I completely agree with.
It is totally ridiculous to argue that this will affect Jews in any way. As besalel wrote, there have always been gays and there will always be gays – and people who are gay aren’t suddenly going to say “hmm then I’ll go straight” just because gay marriage is forbidden. Similarly, no straight person will say “hey suddenly I can marry my own gender! I’m gonna become gay today!”. It has nothing at all to do with the issue. Those who are gay, are gay, and those who are not, are not. Laws do not affect that.
What’s the next step some of these “anti-gay-marriage” posters will suggest? Perhaps banning marriages between black and white people? Judging by the ways I have heard Obama being described by some frum people, I wouldn’t be surprised if that were the next proposal.
@besalel: sure, however, the point is, the ‘blue tzitzis’ simply go along with a hashkafah that is not ours (ie not that of any chareidi). It goes along with the knitted kippah and the automatic rifle and living in Kiryat Arba.
Fact is none of our gedolim wear it. Name me 1 current chareidi rav who wears it. (And ‘chareidi’ does not include Yaakov Yosef, Dov Lior or Adin Steinsaltz.) I’m talking the likes of serious Chassidishe, Litvishe or Mizrachi leaders.
“The Chassidishe Gatesheader: To be perfectly honest, the CR seems like such an exclusive club…I was quite intimidated! “
I myself only re-joined 1 month ago after being gone for a very long time (1 or 2 years or so).
February 20, 2012 8:48 am at 8:48 am in reply to: Move to Eretz Yisroel Without Accepting Citizenship #943747“Wasnt there a massive Terrorist attack in the London Underground a few years ago.”
Yep. 52 people were killed by terrorism, on a population of 62 million.
In the Second Intifada, 1100 Israelis were killed by terrorism, on a population of 7 million. And that is only the period of 2000-2005 – not counting any deaths after 2005.
In the US, on 9/11, 2996 died.
Can you do the math or do I need to calculate statistically how much more chances an Israeli has of being killed by terrorism than an American?
@Avi K:
“CG, as a matter off act I walk through the “Moslem” Quarter (the old Jewish Qyarter now being restored) every Chol HaMoed for the traditional Yom Iyun at Yeshivat Ateret Yerushalayim.”
Yeah, right, on Chol HaMoed, in a crowd of others with armed guards. Or carrying a weapon yourself, even?
“I don not have reason to go to the other places you have mentioned – and neither have I been to Tel Aviv or Haifa in several years. Simply no reason.”
Neither do I have any reason to go to known problematic areas here. Simply no reason.
Difficult to say. Is there someone in a higher position you could mention this to? Are you maybe personally acquainted with some of the parents, so that you could confidentially discuss it with them and maybe together approach someone with higher authority?
February 20, 2012 8:34 am at 8:34 am in reply to: Christie veto's the bill but the threat looms! what should we do??!! #853771@adams: “Gateheader, the American society is more politicized than in the NL.”
Correct.
Also I see that (frum) Jews are much less hesitant to express anti-government opinions. In the UK, The Netherlands, Belgium, Germany or Switzerland, I cannot imagine frum Jews openly saying things about the leader of state that, that American frum Jews say about Obama. We know that we need to respect the government in order to get its respect. We need their support to keep ourselves going – our institutions, everything. If we were to make a reputation for ourselves as radically right-wing religious extremists who bad-mouth the president/PM at each and every opportunity, that would not be a good thing…
@besalel: “Our Torah is waaaay above the petty nonsense of the liberals versus conservatives.”
Indeed. Keep us out of their silly politics.
I want to see a picture. This just sounds so crazy I need to see it to fully understand what you’re saying.
It is absolutely one of the best Purim costumes I’ve ever heard of, though!
Is that question still alive? In my eyes, the second I see a person wearing anything resembling blue (because that’s what it is, nothing more and nothing less) tzitzis, I know they’re not serious (ie, not to be taken seriously for pretty much anything).
It’s all part of the tzionistische craziness – which, luckily, the frum world doesn’t believe in.
@Doswin: the same havarah is also used by some chassidim, specifically in Dushinsky it is used also. “avoiseini” instead of “avoisaini”, as an example.
Many Hungarians say it like that. The “ai” is a Polish thing though nowadays it seems more common, since in general it seems many people move towards either 1 Litvishe havarah or 1 chassidishe with seemingly no variations and nothing in between. I don’t think it was historically like that.
February 19, 2012 10:14 pm at 10:14 pm in reply to: Christie veto's the bill but the threat looms! what should we do??!! #853765Doswin: “was”, not “is”.
Just like we cannot go around killing Reform Jews for driving to their churches on shabbos, we cannot for non-Jews to keep mitzvos either.
It is indeed quite surprising: why should all of these people in NY suddenly care so much about the fate of these non-Jews? Did you ever express so much concern for the spiritual welfare of the ‘general’ population before? I fail to see the point.
By the way, don’t get me wrong – personally I think it is the most disgusting thing possible and the mere thought of two men even just walking hand in hand makes me sick. However, I recognize that is my – and our – opinion; I cannot force my opinion on the rest of the world, especially when a very large percentage of the population disagrees with that opinion.
In The Netherlands, by the way, one chareidi rav is even a council member for the same right-wing conservative Christian party that currently leads the government and supports these marriages. In The Netherlands it is simply accepted as a fact of life; the rest of Europe soon followed, and I expect that within a couple of years the US will follow as well.
February 19, 2012 9:43 pm at 9:43 pm in reply to: Christie veto's the bill but the threat looms! what should we do??!! #853760Doswin: Sure, that’s true. But if these goyim decide to violate the mitzvos Bnei Noach, is it YOUR task to force them not to? Since when do we care? Are you suddenly so concerned for their spiritual welfare?
If a bunch of non-Jews decide to worship trees and rocks, do you care? If they worship thousands of idols, do you care? Let them live their life the way they want. They let us live our lifes the way we want to – why shouldn’t you respect them? Accept that others don’t agree with you and never will.
It comes down to the same discussion I always have with missionaries. They simply cannot understand that there are people who simply DO NOT CARE about their message, their existence, their faith. Some people make the mistake of engaging in discussions with them with actual arguments. I have never made that mistake. Simply say “I don’t care”. As the Dutch say, let them jump high or low – I don’t care.
American Jews’ obsession with this law is reaching disturbing levels, IMHO.
coffee – the last part of my post was (pretty obviously I think) sarcastic… (since obviously it would plunge the frum world into the abyss of poverty)
February 19, 2012 8:28 pm at 8:28 pm in reply to: Christie veto's the bill but the threat looms! what should we do??!! #853757What should you do?
Go learn Torah, go enjoy a walk around the city, go plan your summer vacation, go … get a life?!
As I have said before, and I say it again: I don’t understand why some Americans find it so incredibly important to block this law. They aren’t making it mandatory on us to have our rabbonim officiate at these weddings, right? I just don’t get the point. Don’t you have something else to be occupied with? It seems like a sick obsession.
I’m from The Netherlands. There, and in most of Europe nowadays, marriage is – for civil law – solely a civic matter. For the law, one gets married at the local municipality/council. Aside from that – on the same day or on another day, or whenever you want, whatever you want – anyone is free to hold their own religious ceremonies of whatever type they like. The government doesn’t care about that. One can get married in a non-tznius fashion around a campfire under the moon, by a rav in an ulam. or by a priest in a church – the government doesn’t care.
Therefore also, I don’t care what the government does. Even more, I completely support it. As I have said before: I do not believe that I – or, for that matter, the Torah – is supposed to decide how other people (even more so if they are not Jewish) need to live their life. As long as this is about two consenting adults, I see absolutely no reason why I should care. I don’t want ‘them’ (ie, the goyim) to care about our religious / cultural practices – neither should we care about theirs. Let them do whatever they want and be happy with it. It doesn’t harm you.
In other words: get over it & get a life.
Welcome! Respect. 2 years of reading without even once being tempted to register and join?!
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