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Ive been looking for this for a while and B”H finally found it. It might not be so relevant to the latest parts of the discussion but it will certainly show who the Rebbe thought he was. If any one needs it transalated I’ll do so but I figure that most people still following wont need it.
Btw it is taken directly from a Lubavitch cite called shturem. just copy and paste.סיפור בולט התרחש עם החסיד ר’ יעקב יהודה העכט ע”ה, באחד מחגי הפורים. הוא סיפר לרבי על שהתרחש בזמן נאום שנשאו שני בחורים בפני ילדים על מרדכי היהודי. “בימינו”, אמרו התמימים, “יש כמובן מרדכי היהודי – הרבי – שהוא מרדכי הצדיק של דורנו, של כל אחד ואחד”. אז – סיפר הרב העכט לרבי – שאל אחד הילדים “איפה הוא הרבי שלנו?”.
העיר על כך הרבי: הרי בשביל כך יש את התמונה על ה’טנקים’… והיו טענות אודות התמונות – הרי שזו התועלת מכך…
laskern I think youre missing the point. Whatever the reason for bringing the korbon pesach was the Sefas Emes wrote that the reason it led to their redemption was because they brought it only because Hashem said to. Not because it would lead to their redemption.
So its just like doing mitzvos only because Hashem said. not because it will bring moshiach.
Have a look at the piece of Sefas Emes I quoted.I’ve been following this silently the whole time and keeping my thouhts to myself. Someone, I think maybe rso wrote that even though we may kown why Hashem told us to keep the mitzvos we have to do it only because he todl us to.
I just happned to see a piece of Sefas Emes that mentions something identical about yetzias mitzrayim. Its in parsha boi at the end of 5648, and he says that the possuk says that bnei yisroel did the korbon pesach as Hashem commanded. The Sefas Emes says that even though they knew that their redeption was dependant on the mitzvoh, they did the mitzvoh only to fulfil Hashem’s will, and if they would have done it in order to be redeemed it would not have led to their redemption.Non Political, in fact at frist I did sort of gravitate to other less meshichst groups but after the intial shock of Gimmel Tammuz wore off I too slowly realized that it wasn’t the meshichisten who were at fault. It was the Rebbe who had been leading them on andtrying to promote himself as Moshiach.
Once I saw that I couldn’t honestly remain in Lubavitch any longer.BUT, AS QUOTED EARLIER BY SOMEONE ELSE, THE LUBAVICH REBBE WROTE THAT A REBBE (ONLY OF HIS CALIBER, OF COURSE) CAN BE DAVENED TO R”L. Lo Haya VeLo Nivra.
definitely haya venivra. The Rebbe said it and it was printed in a sefer of Basi Legani but later edited out. Somwhere or other I have a copy of both editions.username123321 it’s nice to see someone finally admit that Lubavitch has a problem with drinking. All the others so far have denied it vehemently just sa they deny every other fault.
But your answer about tznius is not valid. Crown Heights is the center of your (I nearly wrote “our”. Old habits die hard!) chassidus and what happens in “the Rebbe’s Shchunah” is a sign of what the movement believes in. The tznius there is geferlech. I know because I lived there and I still often visit family there.
You can’t blame BTs and people who don’t know what they are doing and just call themselves Lubavitch because the mixing of genders in the street and in stores is terrible and that includes mashpiim and their wives.
In any other chassidshe kreiz (we already said that were leaving Litvaks out of this) would you find chassidishe men talking to women in the street? And many of the women are not tzniusdikke.
Please don’t answer that they are trying to be mashpia on them because I have overheard many converstaions in stores and the like which are clearly plain kallus roish.
Unforunately the tznius level of much of gezh is atrocious and the younger the generation the worse it gets. Hashem Yeracheim!
And Lubavitch chumros regarding Eiruvin are not relevatnt. It is a machlokes of shittos between most Chassidim and Litvaks with Chassidim believing that letzoirech horabbim we should b meikel, and Lubavitch just happens to take up with the other side. Maybe because of their Litvishe origins.Chosid you asked why I think Im more right than the Frierdicke Rebbe.
Its not that I’m more right. It’s that he wrote fiction. This is accepted by all the non-Chabad world as fact and someone demonstrated it with the sundial story.
I’m not “more right” than Mark Twain lehavdil but when he writes fiction it is untrue.username123321 if you honestly claim that he doesn’t denigrate misnagdim as a whole then you clearly haven’t read the FR’s memors. Of course he doesn’t list every single misnagd by name and denigrate them but some of the stuff he writes about Shklov and other places is absouletly ridiculous and denigrating.
” you must have missed the part where he says he was brought up Lubavitch!”
Thnks Syag. Believe it or not I too “ate he kasha of Tmchei Tmimim”!
Regarding whether I believe the Friedicke Rebbe made up the story. I do. Totally. Chof Kislev was never mentioned as a day of celeberation in Lubavitch before the FR decided to tell us the story about the lowlife misnaged. Of course this isn’t the only time he denigrates misnagdim in his memoirs. IT’s part of his purpose in writing the book!
Someone also argued with my snipe alluding to Lubavitchers getting drunk all the time by saying that they drink in a much less digusting way than Litvak bochrim. Who mentioned Litvaks? I am not a Litvak, as you would know if you paid attention, and I don’t really care for their lifestyle and hashkofos (not that I have witnessed them getting drunk in Israel, although perhaps you are referring to Americn bochrim learning in Israeli Litvish yeshivahs, and in which case you may have a valid point.)I am talking about chassidim of all other types. Since I joined another well-known but much smaller chassidus about a year after Gimel Tamuz I have witnessed less than twenty cases of drunkenness. But when I go to a Lubavitch wedding of one of my relatives there are always at least two drunks. And they are not the town drunks as they seem to rotate the honor.
I’d now like to comment on what you non-Lubavitch-born people don’t seem to realize. There is a very simple systm in Lubavitch and you are all falling prey to it. Two rules.
1. What we want to be true is true.
2. What we don’t want doesnt exist.
In categoary 1 we have “the Rebbe is alive” “the Rebbe is Moshiach” “the Rebbe is clearly the biggest talmid chochom of our times” “the Rebbe loved every Jew” “shluchim act out of commitment to the Rebbe and bringing Moshiach” and many more.
In category 2 we have “drinking is not a problem in Lubavitch” “proper tznius is not lacking in Luvabitch” “there are no real major fights between Lubavitchers” “shluchim don’t act in a selfish manner” and others.
So there is no wa that you can ever get them to admit they were wrong. Not because they are all just plain liars but because they have been taught (and I was too – Boruch Hashem I managed to rid myself of it) the weird skill of believing what they want to believe.
In their minds they will always have won the argument and they will be amazed why you aren’t admitting it.Seeing how CS says gut yom tov today it might be worth posters knowing why Lubavitch celebrates not only Kiselv 19, which is the day the Baal haTanya got out of prison.
The story goes that after being released he was taken to the wrong apartment and instead of being in the house of a chosid he was in the house of a misnged where he was forced to debate his host for three hours and defend chasidus. He later famously said that those three hours were worse than the entire time he spent in prison. This happened on Kislev 20.
Now the fact is that there is no source for this story other than the writings of the Frierdicke Rebbe Rav Yoseph Yitzchok and no one had heaerd of it for more than 100 years until he came around.
When I was in Lubavitch I used to believe it just as I believed all the other fantasies I was told. Now not only don’t I believ it but I think it’s disgusting to put those words in the Baal haTanya’s mouth just so that the gullible chasidim can get drunk an extra day and hate misnagdim even more than they had.I’m surprised that no one has mentioned that the official Lubavitch policy is that the Tanya is Torah Shebeksav of Chassidus and that you are not allowed to put a Sefer Torah on top of a Tanya.
Anyone want to comment on that?
Hi. Does anyone remember me? I used to be BurnTFACE but forgot my password and can’t even access my old email address so Ive had to change my name to tfaceBURN but I’m the same person as before.
For those who may not remember I was broudht up in a Lubavitcher family, went throught the system and eventually lef after Gimmel Tammuz when I woke up to what Lubavitch really is. I am one of the very few, oerhaps only two or three, who have remained Chassidic and joined other chassidishe groups.
I give myself credit for lasting so long without mixing in but the pressure has been building and I can’t hold back.
sam wrote “Why does Lubavitch force itself into frum neighborhoods who have their manhigim & minhogim?”
Part of what we were taught in Lubavitch was that we are the best by far, and that the other chassidim (aka Poilishe chassidim) have only a shadow of Toras haBaal Shem Tov. Of course, it goes without saying that even they are far better than snags!
Anyhow a major aim of our mashpiim was to get us to go bedarchei noam to other shtiblech and shuls and to make the others realize that our way was the only really good and proper way of serving Hashem. Getting them to accept that the Rebbe is the Nossi Hador and will soon be revealed as Moshiach would certainly hasten the geulah.
To show us how this was not a difficult taks we were told that all chassidim look up to our Rebbe and that all chassidim, even the big groups like Belz and Vihznitz (not Satmar because they aren’t really chassidim as their Rebbe said nistakcha Toras haBaal Shem Tov) refer to their rebbes by their title, e.g. Belzer Rebbe, Vizhnitzer Rebbe, but when they refer to our Rebbe they just say “the Rebbe” because they know that he is way above theirs.
I am embarrassed to admit that I actually believed it until a short while after I joined a different Chassidic group and asking them why it was true. They looked at me as if I was crazy.
So, sam, theres your answer. Its very important to bring the geulah by waking up others and getting them to see the light.