teenager

abcd1234- thanks you so much for the compliment, as you should see the hate letters i am getting in my inbox for not being able to follow halacha 100% like the senders who are writing it, and that I am going stright to hell, so thanks for the good words

thanks for the recomendation but shiurim is not the thing for me now, but i guess i will try it. thank you

notitallmr- thank you for the compliment, i try.

sjinnyc- refuah shelemiah to you, your husband ans son

I have been dating for 15 months, since I was 17 and I can echo how difficult keeping a good relationship is, it has not been easy. We both come with a lot of bagage and still young and are somewhat imature we werent looking for a relationship but it happened and it has been anything but easy but its been worth it. A lot of my freinds were jealous of the fact that i had a boyfriend and I would always tell them its nothing to be jealous of, yea it has amzing aspects to it but its really hard work and it emans nothing if you dont do it the proper way. So a lot of teenagers are lazy and dont want to deal with a relationship and all the emotional aspects of a relationship so they just look for hookups and hanging out.

Also I love my boyfriend and i cant imagine having a prearanged marriage because maybe I would never ever love that man and I think love is evry important, as it keeps you going when times are really tough. I am sure it works for many people, but not for everyone.

My aprents are overprotective of me and need to know where I am going and who I am woith butI am sure the 30 guys at 711 at 2 in the AM their parents either dont care or dont notice, or they lied to them, but many friends have told me their parents dont care what they do and therefore they can do whatever they want

veimloachshuv- i read your post a little while ago but i didnt have time to respond, I was going to write that u are wrong that the main thing isnt that they need t be care for that its emotional probelms mainlt, but the more i thought about it, I realized that they are interconected, most emotional problems are from not being cared about, whether its dysfunctional homes, abuse or just a busy parent. kids nee to feel they are truly care about, andwe can tell when people are fake. my ideal kosher hangout would provide the love and careing and sense of needing that these kds long for and crave. so you are correct

tzippi- i went to an ncsy summer camp 3 years ago, and its purpose was to integrate bais yaakov kids with public school kids wo we could rub off on the public school kids, there were different levels of elarning and it was aimed to be eared for all types of girls, but it didnt quite do that, i think the public school kis influenced me more. when i was 10 or so my brother was some big thing in monsey jr ncsy and he would bring me to a lot of the events and most of those kis were in co-ed more modern day schools. so basically ncsy is a big mix it has public school kids and co-ed day schools, but mainly its focus is with kids who have basically no background in judiasm, its nor emnat fro these kids in question- the ones who grew up frum and are somewhat turned pff and need positive reinforcement, it would be to below us and we would end up being influenced by these kids who are just starting off in the frum world

charlie brown- thanks, um one thing I might need help I dont know if you would want to, but I want to write letters t different rabbeim asking for guidance in this undertaking, so I need a little help composing them cause I dont want it to sound childish or anything. So I dont know if thats your are or what but just a thought.

So I was thinking that also, that the kids who never experimented should not get involved with this crowd, but one thing is some of these kids are dieing inside even though they have never acted out on the exterior and maybe this will prevent them doing anything bad in the future, it would have worked for me. but i dont think the kids who arent involved would come, they wouldnt want to be with that crowd.

I actually never heard of Rabbi Blobstein, I will ask some of the guys and it does sound like he could be helpfull as this falls under his field. I doubt the guys I talk to will know him as most of the guys I know in Monsey are either very frum or not religous anymore and not intrested but I will loook into it, thanks

thanks everyone for your concern, I am well aware of the dangers on the internet since as a kid I got in a bad situation but I and will be very carefull, so if anyone wants to email me for some reason my new email is [email protected], smartgal and sjinnyc please email me if you dont mind and tohighschoolguy if u want me to explain the problems with boy, girl relationship, things I can not say here you can email me, as well as anyone else.

bored@work- eh dont feel bad for me, when you feel so strongly about something you dont mind defending it, it takes a lot of time but I am so happy at all the responses. I do not want to pervert Judiasm, chas v’shalom, my goal is to bring some of the perversion that unfortunatley is getting more and more common out into the point. I am sure you know the basi concept that admitting theres a problem is the first step to solving it, so to we have to raise awareness of whats going on so something can be done. Its unforunate I have been exposed to so much, but even in the bad you can find good, and if the outcome of all I been exposed to can lead me to helping others (which it already has) the end was worth the means and all the suffering will have been worth it.

Feif un, Intelegent- I see your debate from both sides, but its not that girl dont have tavos, they have differnet ones. I want to be held by a guy or hold hands which cause the guy to have more tavos. But you are right about first being touched which leads to more tavos.

Lammed hey- exactly what I am saying, bringing it out into the open. So I kind of am worried about the finance thing, thats why I posted here in the hopes of manybe someone being able to help, there are plenty of very rich yidden and I am sure this issue unfortunatley will hit home with someone, but I just have to find that someone, it might take a while but I know what I am doing is right and Hashem will help me. As you said, its not easy but its way worth it.

Charlie Brown- I really appreciate your support and validation, (almost) everyone else is fighting me. I understand if you cant help monitarily or personally, but anything you can give, ideas anything. Like you mentioned, the schar would be unbeleivable, so many kids would be saved, not just with Judiasm but from prison and addictions to drugs and alcohol.

Inteligence- not sure which Rabbi Greenwald you are talking about, it might be a brother but I know Miriam Greenwald who is one of the heads of JEP in Monsey and is an amazing women, the JEP sunday school deals mainly with 1st grade till 7th or 8th, the oldest I dealt with was teaching boys their bar mitzva parshiot. That is a very good idea, and I will look in there. Thank you. Also just to make it clear, I have nothing against yeshivish, I am just not exactly in that cirlce.

Not sure who said this comment that no Rabbi would agree with a co-ed society, I could name 5 or 6 off the top of my head and robaly more who would be fine with that, I am not going to put their names here but plenty of my rebeim are aware of whats going on and realize that this is way of dealing with it, since its better than other situations. And also before i spoke to boys, I asked a really high up rav about it, so yes there are people who would support this. A lot of the rebeim who deal with at risk teens and the like

rik- I am so happy that you had such amazing giving people there for you in hard times, I wish I had that I have looked for it and have not obtained it and unfortunatley everyday that passes I go more off the derech but whatever I will deal. That is very nice that you want to give back, I am not sure of any mentoring programs in lakewood, but I will look into it.

Smartgal- Thanks so much, I am going to set up a new email address so you canc ontact me for that, I will post it when I get a chance

Tohighschoolguy- not to sound distant, but you really dont understand the problem with a relationship between guys and girls well since I have lived it and been hurt so many times I get it, theres a lot I want to say and cant say on theyeshivaworld so when i set up a new email address for smartgal feel free to email me there. but anyway no relationship is platonic, guys and girls are very different in what they want from a relationship. the girl wants the emotional part, she wants someone to care for her, portect her and love her and maybe even hold her. the guy mainly wants the physical. because we are taught ot spoken about the opposite gender we dont realize that their needs are so different than our own, that we assume that we want the same thing, I have been with good frum guys who are like you know you want it even though I am crying they dont get it. No friendship stays a friendship, I am not a teacher, a rebbe or even any adult who is preaching this, its just so many people told me this and I was stupid enough to think I could just have friendships, because thats what I wanted but it never stayed that and it wont, the longest friendship i had with a guy before something happened was 5 months and I was fooled saying oh this is working but it wont, we have contrasting interests and it does not work.

bein hasdorim- wow you hit the mark, thats exactly what happens and what happened with me, i was completely manipulated. you have good ideas about fun activities that would keep us busy, I would drop guys to play sports and stuff in a good environment. Thanks for your ideas and for seeing things the way they truly are.

bored@work- thats why i originaly said co-ed because I didnt get why they would leave what they have, but if we make it really good, really fun and stuff they would leave. and this is just an idea, we have to play with it, but i know in the frum circles now that with the shortage of boys in shiduch dating they made a thing that if you marry a girl older than you, you egt paid a certain sum of money, so this enticement egts the guy to start dating older girls and than they end up meeting the right one, so if we could entice them in some way and give them a bribe to come out, and once they come out and have a good time they wont need a bribe, they will see how a good environment like fun activities and a supportive staff can really make a world of differece in their tumultous difficult lives.

cantoresq- you amde a good point about teaching kids proper conduct around the proper gender, i think because we teach them not to look or talk to the opposite gender, that if/when they break out the guys tend to treat the girls as bodies cause they were never taught to respect the girl as a person,a dn they completely use the girl who than feels so empty and hurt so she continues with guys looking for someone who can make her feel better but just ends us in a vicious cycle of being hurt again. and if u asked why they started to begin with- forbidden fruits are the most desired.

inteligent, and bored@work- ok forgot about making a bigger problem, solve the problem we have right now, instead of saying that whatever we do id going to make it worse you wont try to make it better, what is wrong with you?

Sjinnyc- exactly, if we had a co-ed kosher hangout, kids would come out from basement and cars and parks and go into a good supervised environment.

tzippi- you are very right, i think because the problem was never addressed didnt know what to do, the first time a guy touched me he was a yeshivish guy in beis midrash and i ddint refuse because i was like hes yeshivish he must know what hes doing, I was young and stupid and have learned since than but I am sure there many other young kids in my position who need to be prepared for these situations

bored@work- group co-ed settings are the best, because its able to stay more in a friendship way than if its just a boy and girl alone, the guys i hung out with in group settings nothing ever happened but its when you get alone it gets risky. Any ideas what we should do about these problems?

smartgal- wow you are so lucky to ahve discovered what Judiasm really stands for and can be for you if you get beyond all the dos and donts. K forget the co-ed hangouts, if we do seperate I think it can still accomplish a lot. you sound like you know what you are talking about and being a mentor I think would be a great idea for you if/when we set up these “hangouts”, but beyond many orginizations need mentors such as project yes so look into that if you are interested. I am really trying to help others, but I am a jealous of how you really found your niche in Judiasm would you be interested learning with me or something?

Tohighschoolguy- as you said co-ed activities are a risk unless they are monitored, hence my idea is to bring these relationships out into the open into a monitored setting. just one thing, there is no such thing as being shomer, everyone used to tell me you cant have a shomer negiah relationshp with the opposite gender, but I was all inncoent what do you mean you cant just sit and talk to a guy for hours, I have only one relationship with a guy that has stayed shomer, it doesnt happen so I know all of you are going to say to me so i should know very wll that a coed setting isnt good cause it cant stay platonic, well nobodys having a platonic relationship now anyway and I think if I would have been in a supervised setting nothing would have happened, I dont touch guys they touch me and if we were in an environment with rebeim and mentors and something to do beyond make out, fun activities that can give us meaning it can really solve so many problems.Tohighschoolguy, you are so correct to most teenagers Judiasm seems like just a list of donts and cause the teen to rebel cause he/she feels restricted and is not able to see the beauty that our religion has.

you might understand but its not the sole fact that you are a teenager, many of my friends dont get it theyv’e just never exposed themeselves to whats out there which is a good thing but they are living in a little bubble. what you said is a really good point, as i feel the same way I know I am doing something bad but still do it, so fine lets make seperate “hangouts” but lets still do that at least. Well lets figure out how to rekindle that love, shall we?

K i am not here to encourage co-ed, I am not endorsing it at all, I have seen the consequences of it over and over. But when its already happening in basements and alleys and bard with frum teens, bring it in to a kosher environment, thats all I am saying. I spent a lot of time thinking this up and talking about it with other adults and kids, and originally I proposed seperate “hangouts” but why would these kids go there? they need a reason to leave what they have. Make it a big building, spererate rooms, really really suervised but some kosher interaction. Or manybe try it without it, at least do something, not just Ohr Nava but something on a lower level, seperate for boys and girls, dont just argue what I am saying but come up with something that will work if my idea wont.

Shindy- I am not on here to get help for myself, yes I have my own issues but I try not to slef pity, I kind of do kiruv myself in JEP and other orginizations, I am usually the one teaching I wouldnt even know where to ask for a private learning partner, but what you are saying is very true, I was kind of turned off by just memoirzing things that didnt mean anything to me, but in seminary when I realized i could just open a sefer and really learn things that I can apply to my daily life it meants so much more.What you are saying is so true, that is whats happening hence is why i suggested heavily supervised co-ed, theres already enough of the non supervised co-ed events, like the concert you meantioned

wow I feel everyone missed the point of my post, how can you have your head in the sand to whats happening. I know co-ed is not ideal, I grew up in a pretty frum homw never spoke to boys till last year right before i turned 18 and that first guy is my boy friend of the last 14 months but anyway thats beyond the point. I think one of the probems with the frum worlds is extremes, no co-ed no nothing, you dont understand the znus and immorality that is going on can make anyone sick I have seen it all, you cant got from 0 to 100 in one shot it has to be gradual, you cant put these kids who are doing znus and who knosw what back into a real chareidi environmet they will just rebell again and feel no one understands them and than never come back to their roots. But if we slowly in icrinements move what they are doing into a kosher supervised, loving warm environment with people to aid their struggles there is hope they can get back to where they fell from.

Another point, maybe i shouldnt have used the word “hangout” perse as it denotes a negative conotation, like 711 in monsey or several pizza stores in brooklyn. im not talking about kids smoking up and just wasting their time. so we have the question of why kids hang out? so the most common is boredom, they have nothing else to do thats very true but not the sole problem, when kids hang out they are looking for people who have a lot in common with them, its diffrent than who your friends are, like for example i was abused and abuse causes a wide range of emotional problems from not trusting people and not letting people into you life or to being to trusting, or feeling wortless, i could go on and on, so you tend to gravitate toward the people who have common problems in you, I know I did, i could name you hangouts where the kids represent diffrent problems and are looking for emotional relief. So to solve this problem, if our “kosher hangouts” could become more than just a store front where the kids stand in front and look stoned, if it could gives the kids something to do, like if we set up with people available for the kids, like psychologists and social workers but not who will make the kids feel like something is wrong with them, they already feel that way if we put it in a way that the adults who supervise these hangouts really interact with these kids, wherer through playing basketball or just shmoozing it really can accomplish. I think Ohr Nava is an amazing organization and I am very familar with it as Nava was my friends mother, Ohr Nava attracts a different population, like I am not at the level now I would want to sit through shiurim and even though thy have different activities most of the girls there are critical and would look down on me and I already know that feeling way to well, Rabbi Wallerstien is an amazing speaker as weel as an individual but one orginization in Brooklyn is not going to touch 1/100th of what needs to be accomplished.

I dont want to sound chutzpadik but I really feel some adults just have forgotten completley whats it like to feel as a teenager, plus we have so many issues that you have never had, some of you just turn your back on whats happening, but I know it must pain some of you, please do something!