technical21

There are also 2 different things- yeshivish “culture” and actual yeshivish beliefs and practices.

Some people are yeshivish because they follow Comlink-X’s definition. Some people are considered yeshivish because they talk the talk and dress the part and mingle with yeshivish people.

MsPrincess- that’s because psychology classes tend to be a piece of cake. And bk613’s points stand- (1) you are an amateur at best, and you consider yourself a psychology expert (2) psych is one of the easiest and quickest majors, requiring approximately 33-36 credits.

I’ve also taken 2 psych classes- I’ve actually taken more than that, even though I’m a math major. I have also read several psychology-related books. Does that make me an expert in the field?

DY- from the shidduch calls my friends and I have gotten since we started shidduchim, it seems to be pretty common. Obviously, there are no statistics about these things.

I don’t know if there’s a better way- doesn’t seem like it to me, to be honest- but I just try my best as the girl not to perpetuate the same mistakes.

Sounds like there’s still more you’re not saying.

Also sounds like you came back on the derech for the wrong reasons. Go off, check out the boys, you don’t like them so you come back on? What happened to “doing it for Hashem”?

Why does this boy seem like the right one for you? Because he’s smart and you find him attractive?

It’s his turn to go on for you?? Since when? He owes you nothing. He is making his own life choices- and bad ones, by the sound of it. You’re the one who’s pining after him. Do you want to risk your frumkeit (and possibly other things, too) for the sake of such a boy?

Who cares? That’s the point of these threads… there are multiple discussions going on at once.

Without getting into all the halachic discussions and ramifications, the color red is widely considered to be immodest.

MsPrincess-

If you’ve learned Gemara, then Machon Raaya will probably be too frum for you.

As for not listening to things that you disagree with- will you get off your high horse and admit that there are people in this world who know better than you? Maybe if you opened your eyes and your heart, you would realize that you are not the center of all that is intelligent and correct in this world. People have a lot to contribute in many different areas, especially if you take the time to get to know them and to listen.

please give me a subtitle- “non-Flatbushy Flatbusher”

does that work?

Ms. Princess-

It sounds like you are a few years younger than me, based on your posts. Everyone in this forum has been warning you repeatedly to get away from the fire BEFORE YOU GET SERIOUSLY BURNED. You don’t want to listen.

You claim that your intelligence is a big factor. Take it from someone who has been top of the class everywhere: raw intelligence is a gift from G-d which has many uses, but it is no substitute for life experience. I do much better than my parents and many of my teachers ever did on tests, but right now, I cannot touch their shoelaces in terms of wisdom. It’s not all about ego, “I’m smarter, I know better”; it’s about making the right decisions in life, which require more wisdom than an 18- or 19-year-old girl can have.

You did not seem to understand what MDG said about this boy’s desires. Let’s put it this way (at the risk of having this post disallowed): when boys are with girls, there is only one thing that is usually on their minds, and it’s not intellectual conversation.

As Mammele said, you finally “spilled the beans”: you like this boy and in your fantasies, he will come back on the derech and then you can marry him. That’s where you’re really getting yourself into hot water. He can drag you into a nightmare.

BE CAREFUL, BEFORE YOU GET HURT!

DY- I’m not saying it’s her fault; obviously she has to start somewhere. I think that the reasoning of narrowing down prospects is sometimes overly ridiculous.

BMHEE-

I went to Touro Flatbush, but I’m pretty sure that Touro Manhattan works the same way. They are primarily concerned with composite SAT scores from the critical reading and math sections.

I got a composite 1480 from those two sections, and I had a 99 GPA in high school. They gave me a $13,500 scholarship for the year (the total tuition was $15,000 at the time). They told me that if I retook the SAT and got 20 points higher, they would give me a full scholarship. I decided it wasn’t worth it, since I got $1,500 from the NYS Regents scholarship, which covered the rest of my tuition.

At the time that I entered college, from what I hear I could’ve gotten a full scholarship to Stern based on my SAT scores. However, they apparently no longer give full scholarships. You would have to check out all these details.

In the long run, I think that Touro Manhattan is the better deal, since it gives you what you need without the outrageous expense of Stern.

golfer

My only point was that it is not unreasonable for a girl to refuse to pay a shadchan who has not provided her with a service.

PBA- wish I could say. They’re both good boys… just didn’t work out for me.

Chofetz Chaim fits the criteria that you’re looking for. I’m not saying that the limudei chol is amazing, but they prepare the boys for the regents and they give APs, too.

What everyone is saying about a cult is 100% true, though. If he does get sucked into the system, he will most likely not want to leave. However, Chofetz Chaim does allow (but does not encourage) boys to go to college at a certain point. I personally have dated two Chofetz Chaim boys who were taking Landers classes; both of them were serious learners, not yeshivish, mentschen, and well-rounded intellectually. Trust me, they were not using overly yeshivish lingo.

Teaching children responsibility for their own actions.

That particular kid sounds to me like a sociopath.

Agree with Joseph- Cruz is my personal choice, but Rubio is more electable.

I also wanted to comment on the original poster.

“Without a doubt there is certainly shortage of boys on the market. However in many instances I find the girls being overly demanding/choosy in what they are “looking for”. Such as “I only want someone with a plan” why in the world would a 24 year old learning boy need any more of a “plan” other then to learn and trust in hashem??”

There is an old joke about a girl’s father who meets his future son-in-law. He asks the boy how he plans to provide for his family. The boy answer’s “G-d will provide.” He asks how he plans to pay rent, bills, etc. and each time the boy answers “G-d will provide.” The father comes home and tells his wife “I’m glad that this boy thinks that I’m G-d.”

This story is apocryphal, and the point is that yes, G-d does provide, but money doesn’t usually rain down from the heavens. More often than not, in these situations, financial support is coming solely from the girl’s parents. Unless the parents are wealthy or have an outside source of income, this way of life is usually unsustainable in the long term. Therefore, many girls, out of a sense of RESPONSIBILITY and not wanting to burden their parents, want a boy who has some sort of plan. If a boy is in shidduchim, he should have some idea of how he is going to make it financially, without relying on his in-laws or his wife indefinitely.

‘And those who want working boys complain that he “isn’t serious enough about his learning”. Well yeah that is why he isn’t in Yeshiva and he his working with a “plan” as you wanted.’

Are “working” and “serious about learning” mutually exclusive? My father would be quite offended. There is a chiyuv on all men to be “koveia itim laTorah.” The mefarshim say that this means “asai Torascha keva u’melachtecha arai” – meaning, Torah should be the ikar, and the work tafel… regardless of how many hours are put in to each one.

“And for those of you living in Flatbush there is the new question “does he or doesn’t he wear a farragamo belt”. I’ll agree it’s a bit crazy to spend 360.00 dollars on a belt, but should that be a deciding factor in a shidduch?? (besides many of them are 10.00 dollar imitations).”

I agree that it shouldn’t be a “deciding factor” in a shidduch. However, the idea that someone would spend $360 on a belt says something about him (i.e. high maintenance). If I’m not looking for someone who’s high maintenance, maybe that will raise just a bit of a red flag.

From my end, my mother once said to me, “It’s not that a chup on a boy is a deal-breaker in a shidduch- it’s totally not- but I just can’t see you ending up with a boy who has a chup.” Chups happen to drive me crazy, but I’ve gone out with wonderful boys who have a chup. It’s obviously not a deal-breaker, but ultimately, the chup (in most cases) was somewhat representative of the differences in hashkafa/personality that we had.

“I recently heard a girl complain “I wouldn’t pay a penny to meet a shadchan”, really? why not?? does the shadchan owe you anything to spend hours and hours to try to find you someone–do you know of anyone that works for free?? (for the record i personally have never charged anyone or even accepted anything for any involvement in shidduchim).”

I agree with other posters- when do you ever pay someone if they don’t promise to do work for you? Will I shell out thousands of dollars for all the shadchanim I met who have never set me up??

“That’s not a reason to say no, that’s a bias. You implied earlier (in a post commiserating with Flatbusher) that you don’t have as many opportunities to go out as you’d like.”

I implied no such thing… I actually have more bad dates than I’d like. I go out a lot (for a girl). I’m getting worn out.

“I’ve seen more than one occasion where that assessment turned out to be wrong.”

Everyone uses that as a reason that shidduchim should just go on and on and on- because it “might” work out. Trust me, I’ve had boys who I went out with as long as I could make it work. As I said, I’ve had boys with whom the first date was so-so, but the second was much better. My point was that there’s a difference between so-so and outright bad, “we had nothing to talk about and sat there in awkward silence for two hours.”

And you ignored my point that every time I said no after one date, the boy did, as well.

I disagree. Do you know how much effort it takes for me to get ready for a date? For a guy, yes, you do have to rent a car and figure out where to go; I’m not minimizing the difficulty of that. But for a me, my family has to clean up the house, my father needs to miss a good part of his nightly shiur, I need to do my hair and makeup and spend 2-3+ hours of my night. That’s also ignoring the emotional stress and nerves that are involved. If I did it once and there is no legitimate chance of the shidduch working out, what is the tachlis in going out a second time?

By the way, with every boy that I said no after one date, the boy said no, as well. The only exception was one boy who was 9 years older than me (I had literally just turned 20), whom I was reluctant to go out with in the first place. People told me to go out and see how it went. When I went out, I was very uncomfortable with the age difference, and I said no.

I don’t think I’m unreasonable with saying no. I’m generally a very thought-out person, and I don’t tend to be impulsive. Sometimes, there is just no shaichus in a date- which the shadchanim themselves have admitted in my case.

The Goq-

Actually, the only time I ever tuned out and went through the motions after 10 minutes was when the boy did it first (i.e. answered every single conversation-starter with “uh huh” and “I hear”).

A Woman Outside Brooklyn-

There’s a difference between so/so and outright bad. I only say no after a first date if there’s nothing to talk about. That just seems to have happened to me a number of times.

lesschumras- agreed, but sadly most people disagree.