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Do goiral or flip a coin!
Olympus brand
וכל מי שאינו עושה מלאכה להתפרנס ממנה הרי זה חוטא ומחטיא את הבריות. כיצד הוא חוטא, כיון שאינו עושה מלאכה להתפרנס ממנה, סופו בא לידי עניות וגונב את הבריות. כיצד מחטיא את הבריות, מפגי שמרגנין אחריו וחושדין אותו, ואומדין עליו, פלוני שהוא בטל ואינו עושה מלאכה, מניץ הוא אוכל״ מניין הוא שותה, עכ״ל.
The early righteous men would try to work to support themselves and they were not afraid of difficult/embarrassing work even though they were the heads of the assembly, Rosh yeshivas and Gedolei Hador … (descriptions of the various Tannaim and their work).
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And anyone who doesn’t work to support himself is a sinner and causes other people to sin. How is he a sinner? Since he doesn’t work to support himself he come to be poor and then steal from people. How does he cause others to sin, because he cause people to talk about him, he doesn’t work from where does he eat, from where does he drink?We see from these many statements of Chazal that work is not simply a curse but it is a valuable thing that raises up a person to new heights.
R’ Kasher concludes the essay with the following:
הכתוב ,ששת ימים תעבוד ועשית כל מלאכתך״ שבעשרת הדברות מיחד ותופס מקום כבוד נעלה ורם בתולדות האנושות עד נצח. הערך המוסרי של העבודה קשור קשר אמיץ במנוחת השבת, כשם שהמוסריות של שלות השבת צומחת ויוצאת מעבודת השבוע. … חג המנוחה חוזר ונרכש ומתאשר תמיד
מחדש על ידי עבודת ימי החול״.
The pasuk six days you should toil and do your work that is in the ten commandments, takes a proud and high place in the annals of man. The moral value of work is tied tightly to the rest of shabbos, the morality of of the peaceful shabbos is derived from the work of the week.
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The holiday of rest is bought every week with the work of the week.This is not 1 מאמר חז”ל that can be dismissed, this is clearly something that Chazal felt strongly about and emphasised. There are many many more statements in Chazal praising work that I did not quote here. The fact that today in certain circles this is completely ignored is very sad.
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Continued from earlier:
1. ר׳ אלעזד בן עזריה אומר גדולה מלאכה שלא שרת שכינה בישראל עד שעשו מלאכה שנא’ ועשו לי מקדש ושכנתי בתוכם
R’ Elazar Ben Azarya said work is so good that the divine presense did dwell with the Jewish people until they did work as the pasuk says make me a mikdash and I will dwell amongst you.
2. רבי אליעזר אומר גדולה היא מלאכה שאפילו אדם הראשון לא טעם כלום אלא עד שעשה מלאכה שנאמד ויניחהו בגן עדן לעבדה ולשמרה
Rabbi Eliezer said work is good because even Adam could not eat anything until he did work as the pasuk says he was put into Gan Eden to work and protect
3. רבי אומד גדולה היא מלאכה שכל מי שאינו עוסק במלאכה בני אדם משיחין בו, מניין איש פלוני אוכל, מניין הוא שותה
Rebbi said work is good because anyone who doesn’t work people talk about him, from where does he eat, from where does he drink?
4. ועוד היה רבי אומד גדולה היא מלאכה שכל מי שהוא עוסק במלאכה אין ידו חסרה פרוטה לעולם.
Rebbi also said work is good, someone who works is never lacking for money.
5. ועוד אמד רבי יוסי גדולה היא מלאכה שכל מי שאינו עוסק במלאכה הדי זה מתחייב בנפשו
R’ Yosi also said, work is good because someone who doesn’t work will end up giving up their life.
6. רבי מאיד אומר גמלה היא מלאכה שכל מי שאינו עושה מלאכה בחול סופו לעשותה בשבת
R’ Meir said work is good because anyone who doesn’t work during the week will end up working on Shabbos.
7. חביבה היא המלאכה, שהרי כל בריות שברא הקב״ה בעולמו, לא מסר להן מלאכה אלא לבני אדם בלבד. וכן היה ר׳ מאיר אומר
ראית מימיך ארי אכר, צבי חייט, שועל כורם, או אחד מן החיות עושה מלאכה. [הרי אינן עושין מלאכה], והרי הן מתפרנסין בלא מלאכה- ובני אדם אין מתפרנסים אלא מן המלאכה לא מפני שהם קלים, אלא שהמלאכה חביבה-
Work is valuable because out of all of the creature that Hashem created he only gave work to man. And R’ Meir used to say this as well, did you ever say a lion farmer, a deer tailor, a fox vintner or any animal every doing work? [We know they don’t do work] they get their food without working while people only get their food from work, not because it is easy but because work is valuable.
8. חביבה היא המלאכה, שכל הנביאים נתעסקו בה. ביעקב אבינו הוא אומד, אשובה ארעה צאנך אשמר. במשה הוא אומד, ומשה היה רועה. בדוד הוא אומר״ ויקחהו ממכלאות צאן. בעמוס הוא אומר, כי נקר אנכי ובולם שקמים, ויקחני ה׳ מאחרי הצאן.
Work is valuable as all of the prophets worked. … (description of their work)The מנורת המאור ח״ג פרק תלמוד תורה states:
וחסידים הראשונים היו משתדלים לעשות מלאכה, כדי שיתפרנסו ממנה, ולא היו חוששין למלאכה פחותה, ואע״פ שהיו מהם נשיאים וראשי ישיבות וגדולי הדור, כגון ר׳ יוסי, שהיתה מלאכתו שהיה נושא עצים על כתפו, והיה שמח בחלקו ומשתבח במלאכתו, ואמד גדולה מלאכה שמחממת את בעליה.
…וכל מי שאינו עושה מלאכה להתפרנס ממנה הרי זה חוטא ומחטיא את הבריות. כיצד הוא חוטא, כיון שאינו עושה מלאכה להתפרנס ממנה, סופו בא לידי עניות וגונב את הבריות. כיצד מחטיא את הבריות, מפגי שמרגנין אחריו וחושדין אותו, ואומדין עליו, פלוני שהוא בטל ואינו עושה מלאכה, מניץ הוא אוכל״ מניין הוא שותה, עכ״ל.
The early righteous men would try to work to support themselves and they were not afraid of difficult/embarrassing work even though they were the heads of the assembly, Rosh yeshivas and Gedolei Hador … (descriptions of the various Tannaim and their work).
…
And anyone who doesn’t work to support himself is a sinner and causes other people to sin. How is he a sinner? Since he doesn’t work to support himself he come to be poor and then steal from people. How does he cause others to sin, because he cause people to talk about him, he doesn’t work from where does he eat, from where does he drink?We see from these many statements of Chazal that work is not simply a curse but it is a valuable thing that raises up a person to new heights.
R’ Kasher concludes the essay with the following:
הכתוב ,ששת ימים תעבוד ועשית כל מלאכתך״ שבעשרת הדברות מיחד ותופס מקום כבוד נעלה ורם בתולדות האנושות עד נצח. הערך המוסרי של העבודה קשור קשר אמיץ במנוחת השבת, כשם שהמוסריות של שלות השבת צומחת ויוצאת מעבודת השבוע. … חג המנוחה חוזר ונרכש ומתאשר תמיד
מחדש על ידי עבודת ימי החול״.
The pasuk six days you should toil and do your work that is in the ten commandments, takes a proud and high place in the annals of man. The moral value of work is tied tightly to the rest of shabbos, the morality of of the peaceful shabbos is derived from the work of the week.
…
The holiday of rest is bought every week with the work of the week.This is not 1 מאמר חז”ל that can be dismissed, this is clearly something that Chazal felt strongly about and emphasised. There are many many more statements in Chazal praising work that I did not quote here. The fact that today in certain circles this is completely ignored is very sad.
from jw:
The value of work in the eyes of Chazal
In certain circles today, the word work is a 4 letter word. However, if we look at Chazal we see that Chazal actually believed the opposite, that in fact Chazal thought work was very important and valuable.In last weeks Parsha (יתרו), we have the ten commandments with one of them being the commandment to observe Shabbos. However, before commanding us to keep Shabbos the Torah states “ששת ימים תעבוד ועשית כל מלאכתיך”. On this pasuk there are many derashos of Chazal on the positive value of work. The תורה שלימה at the end of יתרו has 2 essays on this point and all of the sources below are taken from there.
Work as a Mitzva
There are a number of sources in Chazal that state that not only is work a positive value, but it is a mitzvah.
1. Source: במכילתא דרשב״י
ששת ימים תעבד רבי אומר הרי זו גזרה אחרת שכשם שנצטוו ישראל על מצות עשה של שבת כך נצטוו על מלאכה
Six days you should work, Rebbi says this is another gezera that just like the Jewish people were commanded as a positive commandment to keep Shabbos, so too they were commanded to work [on the other 6 days].
2. Source: ובאבות דר״נ נו״ב פכ״א
רבי אליעזר אומר גדולה היא מלאכה שכשם שנצטוו ישראל על השבת כך נצטוו על המלאכה שנאמר ששת ימים תעבוד ועשית כל מלאכתך
Rabbi Eliezer said work is a very good thing because just like the Jewish people were commanded to keep Shabbos, so too they were commanded to work as the pasuk says 6 days you should workR’ Kasher explains the source for saying that work is a mitzvah as follows:
ונראה שיסוד של הדרשות הנ״ל הוא משום שהתורה הזכירה שמנה פעמים במצות שמירת שבת עשיית מלאכה בששת ימים וצריך להבין מה רצתה התורה לומר בזו- הרי בעיקר באה להזהירנו על שמירת שבת, ולמה הדגישה בכל פעם עשיית המלאכה בששת ימים. מזה למדו רבי ור״א שהתורה צוותה בפסוקים אלה על המלאכה בששת הימים ואין זה רשות גרידא. אלא כשאדם הולך בטל ואינו עושה כלום מבטל מצות התורה של ששת ימים תעבד
It seems that the reason behind these derashos is that the Torah mentions 8 times when discussing the mitzvah of Shabbos doing work on the other six days. We have to understand what is the Torah telling us? The main point the Torah is coming to tell us is to warn us to keep Shabbos and therefore why does the Torah emphasise every time the idea of doing work on the other 6 days. From this Rebbi and R’ Eliezer learned that the Torah is commanding us to work on these 6 days and it is not optional, rather if a person sits and does nothing he is not fulfilling the mitzvah of working 6 days.
Work as a positive value
R’ Kasher then brings a whole set of statements of Chazal about the positive value of work. What is fascinating is that he only quotes the more obscure ones, the others he doesn’t quote because as he says “כי ידועים הם”, everyone know them.
Sources: ממכילתא דרשב׳׳י שם מאבות דר׳ נתן נו״ב, ממשנת דבי אליעזרEdited for length – please break up extra long posts. Thanks! -33
Josrph says:
: Yeshivos run more on donations than on tuition. Businesses don’t run on donations altogether.”
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This is true for the most part.however ehen you run s school or a yeshiva like a business then u most certainly rely on donations from the kllal as well as sending talmidim/talmidos out to solicit.Syag says:
How did we get back to their finances again? Now we get to decide what is priority or not for other people. You had me there for a bit, i agreed witb you and i actually thought you were being genuine as your examples do seem to be extras, but you had to get that uman dig in there. Care to share the thorn?
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Apparently syag thinks that going to uman is not a genuine issue for people who are struggling financially.July 27, 2018
1Participant
Not everyone who works hard makes a lot of money.
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And not everyone who davens for a shidduch and parnosso and for health get them. Do u ask how much should i daven for health and a shidduch? Or are you mishtadel and go on dates? Or do u just sit back and say i went out enough on dated , now im waiting for hashem to come along. You daven and learn and work because thats what you are meant to to do. Hashem does his part but expect hin to do anything if you are sitting back and expecting for everything to fall; in place because you feel u did enough davening , dating or working.CuriosityParticipant
Takes 2- Who will feed the family if the parents have to stay home to teach their kids or go back to school?
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This is why one should prepare for parnosso before getting married .
And to answer your question more precisely.
א איד געבט זיך א עצה.
Just like they figure out how to pay other bills and camps and visiting uman and other non priority expenses. They somehow figure it out. Its not the schools responsibility to foor everyones tuition bill. Open your own school and see how u feel when a person says to u to foot thier bill because of excuses xyz.If you cant afford tuition, u all have a simple ! Go snd home school them and stop blaming and forcing schools to foot your tuition bill. Or go back to school to get educated in a better paying job market. Hashem want to see u are mishtadel and he will do his share. Do your share and stop whining.
Exactly how was i busted?
By sharing facts ?Syag lachachma says:
you just can’t bring yourself to go without throwing this trash in to every thread it will stick to. What’s your issue? Personally, your obsession with their finances (which I’m sure you have free access to considering you mention you speak for most of them) is more depressing than their use of government funds.
And to add to the head scratch is the other side of the fence we’ll hear about next – they are deliberately poor by choice so that they can qualify for these monies BUT – they simultaneously not qualified for them and are fudging the papers, right? bit of pelah
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Syag, perhaps you should emulate your screen name.
Maybe you should read what you write before pressing that send button because u make less then zero sense.
Until that happens ill just assume its your every type humor.Joseph says:
No rebi should be given a wage that leaves his family indigant and needing or qualified for government welfare programs. Our rebbeim need to treated much better than that. How would YOU like to work on a wage that forces you to collect government welfare, food stamps and/or medicaid??!
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Joseph,
No one is forcing any rebi to do anything. If they choose to go for a low paying job that is thier perogative.
Nobody should tell anyone what to do but dont come crying after you make your decision on the job you chose.
Like i said before, many rabbeim i know are simply not intetested in a major raise because they know they will lose some major government subsidies ie: hud , health insurance etc. They also know that no yeshiva will pay them enough to make up that differece they get from the government.
Its sorta catch 22. for this same reason its simpler to stay in kollel all your life because uncle sam has you covered. Its a messed up system but this is reality. Thanx to obama.Most cheder rabeim i know would actually not want a major raise because then they would lose out on section 8,heap,obama phone,food stamps,medicaid,jerseycare etc. and the list goes on and on.
For public safety and for ךמען ישמעו ויראו ולא יזידון עוד
… they can’t get another job because of their loyalties to your child.
If a rebbe works a summer job, then when he gets upset at you child in November, you are the first to scream he’s burnt out and is taking it out on my child…..
That’s why a rebbe deserves a full time
salary..
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Fake news!Most rabeim know what they are getting into before taking on the jib just like a kollel guy knows what hes getting into before joining the kollel which pays very minimal.
Perhaps we should consider paying the kollel guy top dollar because after all hes learning torah all day and that is the ikar. Why should only rabeim be privileged for a high salary?
Why are moros and women teaches not entitled to higher pay?.
Bottom line, if you want higher pay then go get a higher paying job. Besides, arent we taught that you only make what is determined At rosh hashana? So why denand a higher salary? If hashem want you to get more money he will figure out a way to do it.Rosh yeshivas and buchurim smoked cigarettes in the streets too. Why dont we see it today.?
Who care that it causes lung cancer. Mesora is mesora. !שומר פתיים השםYour business is to be mishtadel by working as much as you can,even if it means taking on a second job because your responsibility is to your family. What hashem does is not your business.if he feels you need a third job then you will find out sooner or later. If you win a lottery you will also find out. But your hishtadlus is to work as hard as you canwithout any cheshbonos of ” why work extra if hashem decided how much you should make. Work the most you can. Learn the most you can and do chassadim the most you can and hashem will do what has to be done both for the good and not so good.
Dont count on hashem helping if you dont help yourself!
Hashem want you to be mishtadel. Not just to be yotzeh but to really show him that your trying.Ask around from someone from the alte heim and they will tell you that regular buchrim did NOT dress in hat and jacket to walk in the street, unless they were going dsven or learn.
Most of those photos were not candid. Most candid photos show the opposite.
We should all have our tounges cut out because we speak loshon hora even in our homes in front of other family members and certainly in private. Speaking Loshon hora and and receiving it are all isurei d’orysa. Why is no one up in arms about it. We should have public tounge removals just like we have public smartphone burnings.
If you promise to not speak loshon hora you would go to a special place to have your tongue hot branded with a m’ushar stamp.
That should stop loshon hora for ever. Whats the next project now that we too care of phones and loshon hora? How about getting rid of molesters?In europe , unless you were a rebbe or rosh yeshiva, buchurim did not dress in a hat in the street. Some may have worn jackets in the cold but on a hot summer day they generally did not.
Dont move to lakewood period!
If you go to a shul which is jam packed to the gills, you will leave and find another shul or wait till they expand the shul.
Same thing with lakewood. Lakewood right now is beyond jam packed. Wait till they build a proper inforstructure or move else ware. Lakewood at the present time is is over loaded. Move to Cleveland,detroit, baltimore,passaic viginia etc.Its not any more goyish then say eating ice cream or doing s BBQ
If you just called it a henna and left the word tattoo out , im sure you woyld have no isdues . Correct? I think the title “tattoo” is what is making you think twice, not the hindu aspect.
knaidlachParticipant
takes2-2tango. so how much time is it OK to spend here?
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Knaidlach, if your asking ,ur most likely
A blogging attict.The way the kollel system is presented today to yeshiva boys and bais yakov girls is not much worse then this fellows addiction. The only difference is you have a couple with a bunch of kids instead of a single person. Its still a major gamble.
Im not knocking for those who truly want to live kollel life style, but for those who are doing it because pure social presdures or to satisfy your friends or wifes family is simply s gamble and a recipe for a disastrous marriage.Is it ok to listen to frum singers who were caught doing big averos. Its public knowledge if you would only do a google search. Is it bad for the soul if u listen to them? Or should one assume they did teshuva?
I can guarantee u that blogging and commenting here all day is certainly worse then listening to non Jewish music.
Tomorrow your gonna have a group of chevra from lakewood confiscating smart pho es. Their legal excuse? Hatzolas neshomos. Just wait, it already happened in EY last year.
July 15, 2018
BaltimoreMaven says:
Let’s ignore the poor logic employed by hoover. Not worth a response.Allegedly the Chasam Sofer said any drosha not in Yiddish is treif.
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May be for ballimore standards your a maven but not for the vast majority of yiddin who think with thier head.
Maybe you should do your share of home work before telling us to ignore facts. Fact 1 . What hoover and others wrote about yiddish being exactly what it is. A language made up of many other languages and thereby no kedisha whatsoever is attached to it . Also the fact is the chasam sofer never considered yidish a holy language and i challenge you to show us where he actually says it to be holy. As far as what hoover wrote , its all fact . If you dont like it thats just too bad, dont kill the messenger who gives you the facts even though its against your agenda.