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2scentsParticipant
While everything that happens has been preplanned and predetermined by Hashem, it doesnt seem like Hashem wants us to take action or inaction based on this concept.
We are still required to do the necessary hishtadlus that is deemed appropriate to reach the objective, thats how Hashem designed the universe.
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And this is precisely why u cant just sit back and not work because hashem will provide anyway and u wont get a penny so why work harder to make more money.
..בזיעת אפך תאוכל לחם.
Yes, i ve heard the argument of this being a curse so it doesnt apply.
Quite frankly thats apikursisHeittle i know says:
….And we can talk of menahalim, rebbeiim, teachers, and other employees who misbehave, crossing lines of abuse of various kinds. These individuals are personally liable. Go sue them. The yeshiva does not officially condone abuse, and if one alleges they do, prove that in court.
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So you sgree we should take them to court if we believe they were psrt of the abuse?
Well how do u propose a victim take them to court without suing them first?There is a reason why chazal put a ban on yiddin to live in mitzrayim. You thing bmg kollel would be exempt from going there too?
When u refer to illegal imigrants ,are u including goyim as well as yiddin?
Life savings= saving lives or saved by the bell or money accumulated over ones life time for saving purposes.
What it accomplishes is as follows:life isnt always and therefore desparate measures sometimes have to take place to teach the masses a lesson.
למען ישמעו ויראו,ולא יזידון עודJust curious why bmg recently went and opened up a kollel in germany.
Its mind boggling to say tbe least!Fsm says:
Tznius is a mess today in America. When you go to a wedding in israel you can tell the Americans in the room by their shiny shells and heels. Their shetls hang to the floor. It’s a disgrace. They come to the Holy Land to sin. Many, not all, have no conception of what modesty is. They think a dress means modesty. They think a wig, any wig, means modesty.
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Fsm, whats worse?
Americans wearing long wigs (in your opinion) or buchurim and kollel guys leaving bais medrash to create havoc on israeli streets on hiways and biways blocking traffic, wasting innocent peoples time, burning garbage cans, destroying property,making a daily chilul hashem in publicIf aguda wouldnt hi jack us i would totally agree with u
JosephParticipant
The shadchan is never responsible for a future divorce. The couple decided and agreed to marry. The shadchan didn’t force them.
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Thats only true IF the shadchan did not “White lie or outright lie about certain critical issues.
Not trying to be critical here but lying by shadchanus happens at a very high rate unfortunately . Now it could be they got a heter from thier rav to lie or they once got a heter about a different couple and nust applied the same heter to lie to a different couple.
whatever the case may be many seasoned shadchanim are as straight as a curvy pencilJosephParticipant
Clothing stores should require a hechsher, just like food requires, in order for frum women to be able to shop there .
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I also bieve that mens clothing should also be sold with a hechsher. And the top button on mens shirts shihld be nandatory to close.
And the mens pants zipper shohkd be in the back not in the front. Mens pants shohld not have front pockets and you must sew pants pockets on your existing pant pockets.
Mens shiuld only be allowed to wear chassidish type underware and the only color sock a nan can wear is white.Speaking of chillul hashem week.
Perhaps your not following local news but a much much larger chillul hashem happened and is still happening this week.
For the AI to come out publicly and anounce
that abortion is ok ,even through the ninth month and kissing up to all the metoonafim politicians is alot bigger chillul hashem?
For what? For what? For $$$$$$$ we cross all halacha and haskafa.
Is it any wonder why 1000’s of frum kids are leaving the fold?JosephParticipant
Shuls should refuse entry to women and their husband/father who goes in public pritzusdik. They should be shunned by the entire community.
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If they start shunning untznius people in shul it would also mean they have to shun child molesters, thieves,fraudsters,foodstamp and section 8 rip off artist. But we all know that will never happen. So much for wishful thinkingosephParticipant
ubiquitin: Can you expand on your point, please? Why are the Yeshivish less strict about this issue than the Chasidim?
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Because the chassidim have thier in house tzinius police like the arabs have. Its like a chasidish police force practicing chasdidish sharia law.
And thats why lots of these self proclaimed chasdidish police are now sitting in jail.coffee addictParticipant
To parrot t2
The problem is the tight clothing
I partially think it’s the manufacturer’s fault
Women like to feel thinner than they really are so the size they want to be will obviously feel too tight
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Hey , why not blame it partially on god for making it to humid and hot in the summer, causing people to wear short sleeves and skirts.Takes 2
If what you said was true then you would have a point. But it’s not.
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Sorry but frum women wearing tight clothing in bp is a huge problem.perhaps even worse then short skirts or pants worn by the mo crowd.I currentlly work on 13 Ave in the boropark section of brooklyn.Every day when I do out for my lunch break I go through the external crisis of looking at girls that are dressed not so tznius. Sometimes I avoid this problem by just making lunch at home but I don’t always have time. May someone please help me with what to do when I don’t have time to make myself lunch, or If I just want to take a little break.
I hate to say but i think tbis whole discussion is somewhat a waste of time for todays day and age.
Chassidim for the most part today are unlike what they use to be even though the dating process is similiar , but thrre a major differences between how chassidim live today to how thier great grandparents lived. Also today there are so many types within one chassidis that it no longer has an identity of said chadidus.Litvaks on the other hand are much closer to how thier ancestors dated . Post marriage stayed almost the same by chassidim but changed drastically by litvaks ie: kollel / work. Wives at work vs at home etc.
Cant speak for Chabad as i hardly had any exposure to them to give sn opinionThe little i know says:
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am not addressing the Freezer, nor Lakewood. I am addressing the many couples that emerge from their Sheva Brachos with shell shock, and no one to approach to seek help. Sometimes a Rosh Kollel is useful for this, but often not. Seldom is a chosson or kallah teacher the right person for the already married couple. And family is almost always a horrible choice for this.
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Excellent point there!
You made my day. Thank you
Finally, a sensible comment here.Here is a partial list of questions which come along with ” thawed out freezer syndrome”
How do people perceive him/her?
What does s/he do in spare time (for boys in learning: bein hazmanin, bein hasedarim)?
What are his/her real values? Give examples.
What is his/her biggest mailah (strongest point)? Best middos?
Is s/he the type of boy(girl) that will do anything for a friend? Ask for examples
Scale of 1-10 is s/he warm/giving?
Scale of 1-10, reserved or outgoing? Serious or funny?
What type of friends does s/he have? Are they into fashion? Sophisticated? Is s/he also like that?
Attitude towards money?
What are his/her practices about: watching movies? Videos? Using the internet? Smart phone? Video games?
Does he/she care how he/she keeps his/her room? Messy or neat?
Does s/he clean up after him/herself? Does s/he help at home?
How does s/he interact with parents? Are they respectful or adversarial?
What does he do in his spare time?
Does he play chess or or gamble on nittel nacht?
Does he Drive aggressively?
How does he deal with frustration?
Does he lose his temper?
Is he cynical?
Character Traits
Baal middos? Mensch? Kind, Helpful? Considerate of others? What makes you say that?Is he honest? Have you ever heard him/her say something not true?
Is he responsible?
How does he socially and emotionally interact with friends & rebbeim?
Sociable/ gregarious or constantly immersed in his seforim?
In regard to roommates: is he considerate, quiet, personal hygiene?
Is he a doer? Is he always busy taking care of things? Or does he focus more on his own learning?
Frumkeit
Does he have a Rav/Rebbe whom he respects? To whom he asks his questions?Is he on time to davening most of the time?
How long is he planning to learn?How seriously does he take his learning?
Is he in the beis medrash on time? Or more relaxed about attendance?
Current Status
Is he is employed? Studying for a degree? Where? What are his career plans?If he is not in Bais Medrash fulltime, does he have a learning schedule?
Questions Regarding Girls
“How does she dress?” “Describe what she wears?” rather than “Does she dress with tzniyus?”Is she flexible/go with the flow?
How much time does she spend with makeup/clothes, etc?
Is she punctual?
Describe relationships with family members
Is she helpful in the kitchen, around the house?
What does she do with her spare time?
How old was he/she when they got thier drivers permit?
Does everyone in the family daven one nusach ie: sefard, ashkenaz,aram soba etc?
What could you tell me about her davening?
Why type of chessed is she involved in?
Is she looking for a short or long term learner? A guy with a plan? Or, someone currently employed?
What are her plans regarding working?
Are the siblings in the family spaced more then 2 years apart.
Is the girl into shoes?
Would she give her family priority over her career?
If the girl is known as a successful Morah, this is already a significant character endorsement, since the students reject teachers who have major faults.
Asking for clothing size gives a message about the priorities of the boy, perhaps better avoided.
About the Parents/Home
Ask shul members or neighbors how they perceive the parents: easy going or difficult? controlling? happy?Do they seem to get along well with people?
Is there shalom bayis?
How is the household run, is it hefker or are parents involved in children’s lives?
Are they generous? With their time for children and giving what their children need, or are they too generous, giving more than they need?
Are parents overly involved their adult childrens’ lives? What makes you say that?
Are the living standards very high or low? Ask for concrete examples, since this area is very subjective. Parents need to consider if their child would be able to handle this kind of living standard.
Is the father machshiv Torah?
How does the mother dress?
Which seminary did the grandmother attend?
Are there genetic health issues?
January 20, 2019 12:04 pm at 12:04 pm
#1664797Joseph says:
The idea that either boys or girls are more unprepared for marriage than the opposite gender is, simply put, a bubbe maaisa
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If bubba maaises are so not true then why do u always preach about emulating our grandparentsJosephsays:
funnybone, a shoita can’t give a Get, so suffice to say I think the divorce rate will be below average.
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Kiddushin of a shota/shotass is not chal, so why would he / she need a divorce?Joseph, are internet trolls considered a mental health issue?
How about someone who is pro beating children?
Should they be allowed to marry and procreate?AriLyons1Participant
The problem is very simple. When you take “nature” out of the picture and choices are made based on resumes, pictures, digging up information etc you’re left with a crisis. Their are way too many time consuming and decision making obstacles to overcome to even get to a first date.
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Very well said.
Short and sweet.🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
Takes2 – back to the anti yeshivish again? Why do you hate it so much?
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Syag.
edited
I never mentioned anything about yeshivish shadchanim.
First of all there are plenty non yeshivish shadchanim out there.
But my main point is that most seasoned sgadchanim have most things down pat, so when someone suggests maybe we should change certain critetia in the dating process, tusually the first people to not entertain new ideas are the shadchanim.
For the most part its major parnasa for many shadchanim, so they dont want change, because it makes them work harder.
I know this first hand because i have 5 shadchanim in my family and they pretty much all have the same MO.edited
DaasYochid ☕Participant
The shadchanim for the most part are afraid of any major change which may affect thier wallets and pocket books.
Closing the age gap won’t decrease the number of shidduchim made; if anything, lowering the typical age at which boys start the process will increase the workload of shadchanim.
But don’t let logic get in the way of a good rant.
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I never mentioned a word about age gap.
Maybe you should learn to read before pressing the send button. This way you avoid showing tge the world your weakness of not reading properly.Thr shadchanim for the most part are afraid of any major change which may affect thier wallets snd po pocket. bookets snd thats why its mostly famous shadchanim who will say there are no crisis.
For the most part we dont have a shidduch crisis.
However many shidduchim dont even get off the ground ,because many questions are asked in a way with not much seichel . There is a way to ask and then theres a way to ask and then for many question you can get 100 andwers and all answers are true.
Use your god given brains before you undertake the task of setting a couple . And yes im referring to seasoned shadchonim too.
For example,
Here is a list of mostly rediculous questions:How do people perceive him/her?
What does s/he do in spare time (for boys in learning: bein hazmanin, bein hasedarim)?
What are his/her real values? Give examples.
What is his/her biggest mailah (strongest point)? Best middos?
Is s/he the type of boy(girl) that will do anything for a friend? Ask for examples
Scale of 1-10 is s/he warm/giving?
Scale of 1-10, reserved or outgoing? Serious or funny?
What type of friends does s/he have? Are they into fashion? Sophisticated? Is s/he also like that?
Attitude towards money?
What are his/her practices about: watching movies? Videos? Using the internet? Smart phone?
Does he/she care how he/she keeps his/her room? Messy or neat?
Does s/he clean up after him/herself? Does s/he help at home?
How does s/he interact with parents? Are they respectful or adversarial?
What does he do in his spare time?
Does he Drive aggressively?
How does he deal with frustration?
Does he lose his temper?
Is he cynical?
Character Traits
Baal middos? Mensch? Kind, Helpful? Considerate of others? What makes you say that?Is he honest? Have you ever heard him say something not true?
Is he responsible?
How does he socially and emotionally interact with friends & rebbeim?
Sociable/ gregarious or constantly immersed in his seforim?
In regard to roommates: is he considerate, quiet, personal hygiene?
Is he a doer? Is he always busy taking care of things? Or does he focus more on his own learning?
Frumkeit
Does he have a Rav/Rebbe whom he respects? To whom he asks his questions?Is he on time to davening most of the time?
How long is he planning to learn?How seriously does he take his learning?
Is he in the beis medrash on time? Or more relaxed about attendance?
Current Status
Is he is employed? Studying for a degree? Where? What are his career plans?If he is not in Bais Medrash fulltime, does he have a learning schedule?
Questions Regarding Girls
“How does she dress?” “Describe what she wears?” rather than “Does she dress with tzniyus?”Is she flexible/go with the flow?
How much time does she spend with makeup/clothes, etc?
Is she punctual?
Describe relationships with family members
Is she helpful in the kitchen, around the house?
What does she do with her spare time?
What could you tell me about her davening?
Why type of chessed is she involved in?
Is she looking for a short or long term learner? A guy with a plan? Or, someone currently employed?
What are her plans regarding working?
Would she give her family priority over her career?
If the girl is known as a successful Morah, this is already a significant character endorsement, since the students reject teachers who have major faults.
Asking for clothing size gives a message about the priorities of the boy, perhaps better avoided.
About the Parents/Home
Ask shul members or neighbors how they perceive the parents: easy going or difficult? controlling? happy?Do they seem to get along well with people?
Is there shalom bayis?
How is the household run, is it hefker or are parents involved in children’s lives?
Are they generous? With their time for children and giving what their children need, or are they too generous, giving more than they need?
Are parents overly involved their adult childrens’ lives? What makes you say that?
Are the living standards very high or low? Ask for concrete examples, since this area is very subjective. Parents need to consider if their child would be able to handle this kind of living standard.
Is the father machshiv Torah?
How does the mother dress?
Are there genetic health issues?
AriLyons1Participant
There’s a very simple way to solve the shidduch crisis. Create venues for Boys & Girls to meet. Until we put “nature” back into the picture the crisis will never be solved.
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You Hit the bail on the head.
In theory it can be done and should be done,but in todays world these venues only work well under sometype if supervision.whether it means shadchonim are available on hand and or its under a recognized otg like the star k or ou (just an example).The trade off should be to allow cars to park on said schools parking lot.
There is an underlying reason why this question . Please be a bit more specific.
And many, perhaps too many times it turns out that it was only a chumra which he /she thought they were over. All along they thought it was actually halacha.
Was it muttar in 2018? If not , why not. If yes then why not also in 2019?
For starters , go daily to Dunkin donuts. Also make sure to block bus stops and run red lights. Everything will fall into place after.
Dr. NatParticipant
Chochma derecheretz:
You are a soney Torah velomdeha. It is not the Yeshiva guys rolling the cigars. It is the baalei batim donors.
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And in 10/15 years from now those bachurom will also be ballei batim for the most part.
Why don’t you think before you press that submit button.I can guarantee you that even the heimeshe hechsherim do not check every fish. They go basar rov , just like they do when it comes to packaged lettuce.
Mark my words!
It won’t take long for yeshivas to start raising funds by having rolling legal marajana with the same excuse of (it’s for adults only)Think with your g-d given brains and you will never go wrong.
Problem with people today especially in the yeshivish/chasidish world , are taught to be like robots and not think for themselves.1. The level of Yiras shomayim of the mashgiach
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Please explain how a human being can know the level of ones yiras shamayim.
Even the man from the Monsey chicken scandel didn’t know his own level so certainly others can’t know.Edited
Central Rabbinical Congress – (CRC) – Hisachsus HaRabbonim
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Joseph,
What questions did u ask the mashgichim to determine thier qualifications . Also
How many public recalls did the CRC have since it’s inception?If hymish means that the mashgiach blybt in deer hym then don’t trust it.
Lots of tznius issues walking on brooklyn and Manhattan streets, in walmart, in Target . Yet no one seems to ask the obvious.
Is it ok to walk on brooklyn streets and shop in walmart/ Target etc.,?