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Maria – I love your last post! Rings a bit familiar…maybe we both authored similar books?
wow, there are so many things here that just don’t sound right at all.
Klugeryid – I agree with you completely that dragging a kid out of bed is a very bad idea. Regarding the rest of your comments and questions tho, I have to say that I don’t know you AT ALL and don’t know how you are in real life but I find your tone to us here very impatient and intimidating. If this is how you are with your kids, not much of our methods will help you. There needs to be a shift in attitude and empathy.For example:
. Let’s have a discussion. You will tell me why you do this and I will explain why it’s wrong.think about that as an opening line of a conversation with ANYone about ANYthing. Not very inviting, not very validating. Tell them you want to hear them and then you can explain why it may not work, may not be productive, may not be responsible etc. But to say “share your feelings with me so I can invalidate them” won’t bring much trust.
and then there is this:
Which may result in the child staying in bed all day cause they won’t care. Which will result in a spoiled illiterate child when carried to its extremeThis is the saddest thing you’ve said. A child staying in bed all day will not result in a spoiled illiterate child. NO HEALTHY CHILD would EVER chose to avoid a SAFE environment by staying in bed all day. If this child does make this choice, then they need to be checked seriously for a metabolic/sleep/other physical issue. When that is ruled out they should be checked for possible depression. They can simultaneously be evaluated for other reasons why they feel safer in the absence of their life than in participating in it. It could be small, fixable issues that they don’t have the strength or skills to face and fix. Or it could be that there are learning/social issues in school that are too much. Or they can have an emotionally unsafe homelife.
Some of these things are an easy fix, some not. But if you see a huge red flag like this and your only concern is that the child will be spoiled and illiterate then there may be a huge disconnect between you two.
“Also, the people who wouldn’t buy the Yated if it had pictures of women in it aren’t the ones asking for pictures in shidduch resume”
I don’t really believe that to be the case
Trying to stay calm- that was a dumb post even for a troll
LLW – I agree with you completely that this thread is garbage and judging people’s entirety by their dress is wrong. I haven’t read most of theseposts so I may be repeating others but I want to address your comment because I hear where you are coming from.
When people walk around in skirts that are too short, they bring acceptance to action and make it more comfortable for others to do the same. When something is wrong per Halacha, and people do it publicly, it needs to be spoken out against.
Does that mean judging them as people is okay? No. Making assumptions about the rest of their lives okay? No. But it also isn’t okay to say, “I’m not gonna comment on this behavior, even though it is getting more untzniusdig and affecting more people”
So you are right, most bashers have no lishma attached to their bashing. It seems to be a hobby for them. And you are right that someone in that dress may be a better human being, or even a better Jew than some of those who dress btznius but have other behaviors. But your point is wrong that we shouldn’t speak strongly against the act of dressing in that way in public while presenting yourselves as drum Jews when it is wrong.
Does that give license to judge the person? NoI am more than familiar with studies. At work I have read and critiqued many studies, some so far fetched that you can’t believe they got someone to fund it. I have seen studies that use data from groups smaller than my immediate family. The fact that it was a published study means nothing. That’s like saying you believe it because you saw it on the internet.
You seem to be confused about passion and knowledge. See, someone can have knowledge about something they are passionate about, and that is why it is all the more upsetting when people post misinformation on the topic. And knowing your stand on abuse issues, I am actually surprised to hear you say any of these things because 1) It is not supported in real life and if you have indeed spent any time with survivors you would know that (based on your insight in other topics) 2) Quoting studies as if that automatically means they are fact is somewhat irresponsible. We can make assumptions from studies, but that does not create facts.
You are welcome to use literature to drive your decisions, but everything I have seen in real life has proven them wrong on this. So therefore, I will chose not to. As I do when I encounter any study that doesn’t shtim with what is really out there. Professionals do it all the time. regardless of their passions.The literature refers to the healing process as clinical benefit. And your suggestion is not supported by the research. Perhaps you would like to believe that the healing is quicker and better, but science says it ain’t so.
Do you know how insulting it is to pretend literature knows better than the people it writes about? So you read something and liked it, great. That does not give you license to say others motives are about revenge. You make no sense.
There are good reasons to lock up a perpetrator. But it is not for the victims, as much as they may relish in the perpetrator’s misery. It is to protect the public. This matter was the focus of the studies, and your hypothesis was not supported. Your logic is okay, but the facts are not that way.
Your words are an insult to survivors everywhere. To say they relish in the perpetrator’s misery is just sick. To say it is not for the victims is just ignorant. For people who live in fear of bumping into their molester every time they go to shul, the store, the bakery, school, their friends house is a living nightmare. When the guy is in jail, it is the only breath of air they can take before setting foot outside their house. Your stating that it was the focus of studies is a joke. Would you like to read a few anti vax studies? I can even find a bunch that state same gender parents can raise children with no consequence. How about a study that says living with your spouse before marriage may make your marriage stronger. What shaichis studys when real life people say differently. Get in touch.
I wish to acquaint you with something found in the professional literature.
Yeah, no offense but i can aquaint you with some professional literature that says dinosaurs walked the esrth a million years ago and supports the big bang theory. If you need to back up your claims on tjis topic by using professional literature, you may want to do a bit more personal research among some survivors. I appreciate your intent but i believe you are misinformed or undereducated.
Tlik – the deterrent is to the protectors and deniers, not thr molestor
TLIK – These lawsuits benefit absolutely no one. The victims, as long as we are discussing the real ones, have suffered whatever they did. The projected compensation will not remove or relieve any of the PTSD symptoms, nor will it provide a miracle to those who went OTD. …. Punishing those who erred long ago – that’s nothing beyond revenge, and the issur of taking nekomoh.
I just need to state that I could not disagree with this more. If you discuss this with those in that situation, as I would have assumed you have, you would know that this is absolutely not true.
It should bother you too
Ubiq – your last post is excellent. You say everything i have thought and i too wonder why people dont get it. You have explained yourself very well, more than once, more than that even, why it doesnt work in real life. At this point there is not much left to add. Thanks for speaking out tho, not just for me but many others who, like you, are working on ourselves in order to fix the problem.
“Someone recently coined a term for that. It’s called “Shidduch Crisis Denial Syndrome™”.”
And another one joins the frey. Thanks for the put down, I mean we can’t be right if we see it differently. There can only be one line of thought. The fact that it’s as clearly non sensical to us as it is sensical to you doesn’t seem to be rattling our cages. The lack of congeniality toward others is probably more of answer to your (global you again) crisis than how many chairs you think are set out.
And there it is again. Someone doesnt agree with the numbers so you need to throw insults. What is arong with you guys? Ubiq is an intelligent poster, im not an idiot and we are not alone in seeing that your age gap theory doesnt make sense. But we dont seem to have a problem with you valuing it, we just found an explanation that makes much more sense (to some of us) and is much more sound (to some of us) and possibly more in line (in some of our opinions) with everything we have learned about hishtadlus. So what in the world justifies these crazy responses? Why do you all become anti vaxees when someone disagrees with you?
“Very well said.”
I second that
As long as the Ribono shel olom keep creating more players and chairs even if they are different numbers. The game will never end .
Yes! Yes! Thank you. That is the point. And i cannot wrap my head around why anyone is missing/overlooking/discounting that (attempts at explaining it notwithstanding)
It doesn’t make any sense in a changing system. (And thats with the assumption it would make sense otherwise)
“Why can’t ubiquitin be right?
Why can’t he be wrong?”
That’s not answering a question
“You have already given reasons why you think he’s wrong, now I’m asking you why he can’t be right.
So put yourself in the perspective of the people who think there’s no valid perspective which denies the demographic issue.“
Same here
“Why is there no agree to disagree?”
No response here either
There have been several other responses to your comments from other posters, I didn’t see them to be unanswered, even if you don’t agree with them.
“So put yourself in the perspective of the people who think there’s no valid perspective which denies the demographic issue.”
I obviously did (and do) or it wouldn’t be an honest discussion. But that’s the third time I’ve asked it if you (the global you) and you keep tossing it back. I’m trying to understand why the resistance to being part of a two way conversation on this.You have already given reasons why you think he’s wrong, now I’m asking you why he can’t be right. Not allowing yourself to understand the other features at play, and not allowing yourself to entertain being wrong is exactly what is paralyzing.
No matter how strongly I see a ‘side’, I always accept Put myself in the perspective of other people’s viewpoints. It’s the only honest way to have a dialogue. And I m not seeing any of that. Yes there are flaws in every study, that’s the point we are trying to get across. But I haven’t even seen studies that make enough sense to be called such.Im still confused why this topic makes people so heated. I don’t see how posters i know to be intelligent cant see the flaws in this theory but i dont get why im not allowed to say so without getting jumped on.
Why can’t ubiquitin be right? Why is there no agree to disagree?He should make something up just to make you happy?
As others have noted, simply removing the parents and shadchanim from the equation and allowing young men and women to engage in their own meetings, dates, etc. is more likely to result in successful long-term relationships than the highly structured and often forced meetings many rely upon today in the frum tzibur.
choosing a halachically inappropriate option as the solution is just dumb. I agree that the system is not working, and I agree that the age gap theory is just a way for people to live in denial of the efforts they need to put in to finding a shidduch, but I don’t find any evidence that coed life is the way to assure people find the right match. Having several relatives practicing that approach, I have not found it to be a shoe in for meeting your bashert. Or did you mean something more structured?
Takes2 – back to the anti yeshivish again? Why do you hate it so much?
I understand why trump/anti trump threads are so angry and vax/anti vax, but I don’t get why this topic causes so much aggression toward anyone trying to get a word in edgewise about having a different view? We often see different causes behind the same issues and we are able to discuss it, why is this so different?
Ha ha, what a joke. Joseph asks people for some very open thoughtful opinions and then comes back with extensive essays why they’re wrong. It’s like the self absorbed co worker who only asks you about your vacation for an opportunity to talk about how much better his was!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣Poor, poor Joseph.
Apparently not Joseph. Although you wish it were so you cant just make peoples observations go away.
👍🏼
How do you think HKB”H felt about it?
Are you allowing for people to have other views of what the problem is or are you also one of those who believes that if we dont go for your version of the problem then we’re in denial? I would love to find age gappers who are willing to have a two sided conversation with unlike minded posters.
woops, I forgot you had another post. If I leave this undissected Gd only knows what you might accuse me of…
What would you like me to say, in your ideal world? You are claiming to sympathize with victims of a phenomenon that you don’t believe exists, which is impossible to do.
still can’t figure out how you equate not thinking the number theory is true and not believing that there are too many single girls. Nothing I said supports that.
You are claiming that you can have population growth without latter generations being more populated than former, which is impossible.
no I didn’t
This isn’t about “opinions.”
actually, it is. We each have an opinion about the reason there are so many people still single at older and older ages.
If somebody came along and said “1+1=5, and anyone who says otherwise has no emunah,” that’s not called an opinion; that’s just called being wrong.
not remotely related to anything I said
If you spout stuff that is factually incorrect, you can’t just claim persecution when people call you out on it.
You made that up too.
Here’s your first rant. I’ll respond as if you are actually listening –
So, those of us who admit that the shidduch crisis is real are “not willing to face the painful reality?”you cut me off in mid sentence. I said those who are not willing to face the painful reality of it being in our court, and not about numbers.
One simple question, what do you think we would have to gain by spreading a rumor that there’s a shidduch crisis? Who would benefit from this giant conspiracy and how?I didn’t say anyone was spreading rumors about a shidduch crisis. I just said it isn’t about that specific number theory. I was pretty clear I expressed that there was a problem, I was just silly to think I could hold of a different one than you see.
It’s called an analogy…
obviously. I just don’t think it’s a good analogy as I made pretty clear in my next comment that nobody knows how many people are actually in the dating pool (as a whole) so we can’t say we know the numbers are off.
Obviously it was arbitrary. The point has nothing to do with which numbers are chosen. The point is that, with population growth, the number of people born in say 2018 will exceed the number born in 2014. You can’t possibly deny this unless you’re delusional.
Thank you for you calm and rational viewpoint. I guess that would make all others null and void?
I am well aware of what population growth means. I just happen to have a different view of whether or not that would affect shidduchim. I am not convinced all 21 year olds marry all 23 year olds and I am not convinced all females born frum in 1984 grow up at all, let alone frum. There are other views on this. I hope that is okay with you.You can whine about a generation’s self-absorption all you want, but it isn’t going to make males spawn out of nowhere.
I wasn’t whining about the generations self-absorption. I was telling you that that has more to do with the number of unmarried people than saying Gd forgot to send down more males. It’s a valid and differing view point. I hope that’s okay.
The only solution is to stop marrying at an age gap.
.
If you deny the entire issue, then how can you claim to care about the victims?
I never denied the issue of there being many unmarried people. I denied it being the numbers/age gap or whatever you want to call it theory. Had you read what I wrote instead of what you thought I wrote you would have seen that.
Would it be disgusting to say a Holocaust denier doesn’t care about Holocaust victims?No. But that has nothing to do with this conversation. I never denied that there are far too many singles. That was your mental leap.
You won’t respond because you can’t.
No, I didn’t want to respond because I felt like crying after being berated by you and don’t enjoy confrontations. Why the heck would I want to respond to someone who spits bullets at me for having a different opinion about the CAUSE of the shidduch problem and calls me names, accuses me of dumb things and CLEARLY didn’t bother reading my post.
You’re couching your inability to counter the argument behind a moral superiority complex, and it’s not working.
I don’t have a moral superiority complex, I just have a very weak composition
I hope all these answers make your day. And if I was a troll, it sure as heck beats being a bully.
the only troll here is you, trying to lure me into a fight by calling me names and accusing me of catch all responses and obnoxious behavior with no basis. Okay, you win. I mean, what can be so bad about getting punched in the face by a bully? Yes, I do find your insults painful on a personal level, so you win. As for the answers that you accused me of not having, when you doubtfully won’t even bother processing with all that smoke pouring out of your ears…
tbc
enjoy your bone. maybe next time….
Woah, Chill out buddy! Either put down the machine gun and have a conversation, or find someone else to bark at. Im happy to exchange opinions with you but im not interested in being bulldozed.
Your choiceAs far as I am concerned, women should have an option to learn Gemara.
if its halachically permissible. otherwise they shouldnt
OK, so let me give you a test at risk of being accused of being a total kofer. You have a room of 50 boys and 60 girls. How do they all get married without 10 single girls leftover?
its not kefira, it’s just silly. the world isn’t a room. and nobody (and I mean that literally) knows how many girls or boys there are in the pool. your designation of a number is arbitrary whether you like it or not.
This is what those of you in denial do: to compensate for your embarrassing lack of understanding of basic statistics, you imply that everyone who sees the reality doesn’t have enough emuna.
This is what those of you who aren’t interested in acknowledging or putting the effort into changing the damage self-absorption and poor priorities in lifehas wrought on this generation, you imply that anyone who is willing to face the painful reality is lacking an understanding of basic statistics.
I presume that includes the victims of the shidduch crisis whom you obviously don’t care about because they just get in the way of your denial.
that’s just too disgusting of a comment to even give answer to.
Gadolhadorah- bingo
just to clarify my comment which has been quoted a few times here but with a piece missing….
“Obviously women who feel that way about something so unbelievable personal aren’t going to bare their souls here, a…, let alone anonymous …”
when I said bare their souls here, I meant in mixed company. and I’m pretty sure my anonymous comment was on the people who don’t bother controlling their mouths when they respond because THEY are anonymous. if you read ubiquitin’s posts to me and my responses you will have a better understanding of what was going on at that time with some of the posters. It has calmed down a slight bit, but possibly because I got tired of being bullied and post on much rarer occasion.
SH – awesome post, and thank you for the shout out although I can hardly understand why. I had so little to do with the conversation and the questions I asked fell short of the knowledgeable Halachic discussions to the point where they fell off the radar without ever even being addressed. So can’t imagine I’ve earned any credit, but I have been told that saving one Jew is saving a world so I’ll take it. 🙂
no. I don’t think they believe that at all. This was information they have no thought to argue. They just think we are too simple to understand, or we are just haters looking for things to pick on. Although we have stated over and over that our tayna’s come from halacha and Torah discrepancies I don’t see any acknowledgement of it.
Duh! because they didn’t have pencils!
thank you imma!! I totally agree that he was trolling. Tho I think he was just making fun of certain other people, not checking them out. I was a bit surprised by how many people seemed to take him seriously.
Clinton, Obama and ?
Username – that story regarding the litvish rebbe is awful, but it is not standard and it just proves the guy is a jerk, not that there are politics. A jerk and a baal motzei shem ra..
Regarding the next post, i think you named me accidentally, i have had no participation in the sukka conversation.
SH – 😂🤣
“For some reason it seems that when some posters here realize that their tayinos on Lubavitche are not really true (for example reason to do mitzvos), they just brush them away and say that there better problems to discuss. For some reason I see that purely out of sinas Yisrael.”
For some reason it seems every time a Lubavitch concept/issue was proved inappropriate the posters decide it’s sinam chinam and call us haters.
And the fact is that it’s your opinion.
Although it is definitely right, because evetyone is entitled to their opinion.Umm, are you familiar with thd birth process?