🍫Syag Lchochma

Wow! that’s the first smart thing TT has said so far! They refuse to hear you because of “Hagoy Bekirbecho” because of the Christianity within you! Exactly what many here have been saying all along!

TT, I find comfort in knowing that if the Rebbe was around today he would surely put an end to your chillul.

(Listen to the shiur from the famous radio host dovid Lichtenstein called “revisiting our relationship with lubavitch” it might be a good idea to hear what other litvaks, and gedolim he brings down say.)

yes I did mention you will hear what the gedolim say but what I meant was to show from the Gamora which is about 10 minutes in

Yseigel – thank you for that information. It does give a different perspective to everything i have been reading. Unfortunately it brings up the question why so many are so uninformed.
But thank you.

I knew what you meant, no need to go over it. And I still say there is no comparison between the attitudes.
If your point, as you claim, is that people should not be putting others down than why the need to be condescending and sarcastic? Is that part of the peace campaign? Is that just a misconception that some have that it is okay to spit at someone as long as they spit first? Oh, I’m so sorry, I mean howl first? If you really had a legit question, and being rude really bothered you, why the need to dish so much of it out?

Double standard? In what way? There is no comparison between the attitudes towards the Halachas you mention.
Fact check much?

So basically you’re spreading lashon hora about him?

Any- when you say i clearly didnt read something, is that because you have a need to be condescending but cant find any fault in my words? Or because you clearly have no response? Because you clearly would have no idea what i have and have not read.
And for the record, its Rav Ahron Kotler. Although mamesh works for you, RAK instead of Rov Ahron is just another way to be mivazeh a tolmid chochom.

Any- the hater is what the chabad suppoerters have screamed repeatedly at every comment made that backs them into a coener or involves supporting things the leader has done wrong per halacha. Its something you have seemingly learned to call anyone with legitamate questions in order to excuse a need for giving answers.

Guys, ya gotta stop calling everyone with halachik taynas agai st chabad a hater. It’s getting old. You want to call the information lashon hora? Well news flash- a lot of it came fro. You guys here, and lubavitchers we’ve met i real life. Go complain to them if you don’t like the kefira or ignorance or am haartzus they spread.
Either give an answer or don’t or cut it out with the hater calling. It isn’t caled hating to call out things that are wrong.if you want to deny the source, go ahead and try, but you shouldn’t be complaining that we defend Torah.

She was extremely modest and hardly went out for the reason

The wives of Gedolei Yisroel were the personification of modesty and had spent their days serving the klal. It is not one or the other. Even Sara imeinu, who stayed in her tent, served the klal and had a following of women, how is that not modest?

There are a lot of differences in hashkofo that a couple can get used to or work around. The problem is that most people are in denial of the damage some of those disparities do to the Chinuch of their children.

what’s with the sudden interest?

Not at all, it doesn’t really apply to me. Im not the one who needed to write a whole paragraph to put people down for the colir of their shirt.

I cannot understand why anyone would buy milk without a hechsher. I grew up in a town where most people ate cholov company and nobody bought milk without a hechsher.
The cholov Yisroel is on the milking of the cow, the hechsher is on everything involving the plant, workers, tubing, vats, cleansers etc. The fact that there is a trust that the milk only contains cow’s milk, even with 100% certainty, has no bearing on what else they used the processing equipment for.

What a beautiful post! Ignore my last one and add my name to that one! 😁

Ok, I’ll try this one last time. I said it isnt about halacha, meaning that i dont have a problem with the halacha, i am arguing you on the poor parenting.

You say my response to the gemora is a smokescreen. Well, it cant be a smoke screen cuz it wasnt even a responding.

Which brings me back to the point i made way back that i wasnt continuing in this conversation because we are obviously speaking different languages/operating in diffetent wavelengths. I only gave an additional response because you through in a personal side point that i felt deserved the respect of a response. Have not continued on this topic tho. All the requests you made and sources and quotes wete posted after i bowed out.

And as i said before twice now, im not conceding nor storming out, just dont see it working.

No I actually spelled it out clearly multiple times.
Seems when one wants to ignore something, it makes no difference how clear it is.

Thank you for clarifying what you were trying to do and hoping to convey. I hope you won’t mind me “clarifying” that you were neither clear in making your point, nor in your understanding of ours. I don’t have any reason to think *you* were ignoring *us*, but your comment that we were ignoring your clear as glass Torah based presentation due to disagreeing unequivocally is incorrect on all three points, your belief you were clear, your belief you were appropriately representing the Torah’s viewpoint, and your belief we said it’s always wrong.

Hope that gives you some relief.

Yes hitting is a last resort
Yes hitting works
In the words of Conan Doyle, it may be cracking the nut with a triphammer but it gets the job done.
It’s a last resort for a few reasons not listed in order
Firstly if done often it will no longer work either
Secondly if done out of anger it will breed permanent and ultimately create probably the opposite effect of what you want. A parent who has tried all the wonderful suggestions and methodologies listed in this conversation, and has gotten to a point where they feel justified in hitting is probably not doing it in anger.
The difference between hitting and the other methods is simple
The other methods need to be tailored to each child
What excites one won’t talk to the next
Hitting is a universal language understood fairly quickly

That is a really sad post.
Please allow me to bow out. I am not conceding, nor am I storming out. I realize we are just functioning on totally different realities and I don’t see how that can change. Meanwhile, these last few posts are very unsettling, especially now that you have mentioned real kids being on the other end of them, and I am not comfortable in this conversation.
Hatzlacha. I wish you well.

You know what the first thing to do with a child who absolutely refuses to get up for school? ASK HIM WHY HE’S NOT GETTING UP!
Really? News flash.
In real life I do have children. They have many disparate temperaments.
Some of them will never tell you what is bothering them, you need to guess and sometimes if you get it right they will tell you sometimes not. They are that way since they were old enough to shake their heads to a yes or no question.

thank you for this. at least it gives me perspective.
So you are 100% right on this. I have the same kid. But you are not necessarily asking them because you don’t know the answer, or because you need them to say it. You ask them for the sake of chinuch.

When you ask your child a question you are teaching them that you want to hear them. You are teaching them that there is a cause and effect for behaviors. You are teaching them that you believe they have something to say and you want to know what it is. You are teaching them that they have responsibility for some of their behaviors. You are teaching them that we ask people about themselves instead of making judgements. You are teaching them that they are valid and to validate others. You also may find out that you are sometimes wrong on what you thought they were thinking. That is a handful of reasons why we ask.

Nothing has worked, does there ever come a time when you hit them?

I find this confusing. It sounds like you think hitting works, so will I do it or not. If hitting is appropriate, it is appropriate because it is, not because nothing else has worked. You are mistakenly confusing that with it being the one thing that works that you save til the end.

Or do you continue just making charts, taking away their books which they wait till you finally go to sleep so they can take it back only causing them to go to sleep later, so HE will grow up knowing that the only negative of his behavior is mild reproach or what he considers soft punishment.

again confused. I never made charts, don’t believe in them actually. But why do you think that it’s charts and mild reproach, or hitting? If you have kids in real life, you have to know that there are a million things in between. I really don’t understand how you came to this.

And then In five years when he is 14 and never goes to Minyan ,you start running to experts for help?

I think we were pretty clear that we would be working with him from day one. Not asking politely, and then smacking. Are you implying that if things don’t work and you start smacking him, he will suddenly be compliant? If you can’t get him out of bed and you beat him til he gets up, are you thinking you achieved your goal?

I don’t see how your premise makes sense because hitting isn’t a “last resort,’ fix all. It is as specific as bed time charts, rewards, schmoozes and everything else. Choosing random disciplinary options instead of appropriate to the situation disciplinary options isn’t going to get you anywhere.

I

STANDING OVATION!!!!!!!!

“You wouldn’t punish a 2 year old for not knowing how to drive a car, right?

We’re discussing older children, not two year olds.”

no, I don’t think we are. How many parents are smacking an 8 year old for running into traffic? Really now.

The reason it isn’t worth my energy to give “long rational answers” is because, as winnie and Avrum pointed out, you are either just trolling, or you are so incapable of seeing anything other than a nail that nothing we say makes a difference. My personal third reason is that there is nobody other than you who is even wondering. That’s how obvious it is.

When the Steipler was on guard duty on shabbos in siberia someone left him a coat hanging on a tree. The steipler chose not to take the coat even tho it was below freezing. Someone wondered how the Steipler could ch”v be “more frum than Hashem”. Why would he refuse to protect his life by taking the tree when Hashem clearly allowed it to be done and we are required to be responsible regarding our health.

The answer is because the Steipler knew he had a heter, and perhaps a chiyuv, to take that coat when he felt that the cold was dangerous to his health. In his piety, and with Hashem’s help he never quite got that cold.
Having a choice to do something to address situations does not obligate us to see that situation everyday all day.

If that is too hard for you to process, just call it denial.

Oh give it up. There’s no connection. You’ll have to find some other lame excuse for beating your kids, or getting over the thought.

it isn’t about what is worse, it is about which one would be helped through use of force. Using force isn’t an end all solution for all bad things, as if they can all be lumped into one. it serves a specific purpose and is useless if not harmful when applied the wrong way or for the wrong reason. I guarantee you chillul Shabbos is the wrong reason. Would you give someone chemotherapy for depression? no shichus. it isn’t about strength, it’s about appropriate

LB – I am no expert on ruach hakodesh and I welcome corrections but I just wanted to help out with something. I am hearing that you may have an incorrect perception of ruach hakodesh and I wanted to see if I could give you a better version. I am speaking super simplistically and invite corrections from fellow posters.
The Ruach Hakodesh that our Gedolim have is a level of insight, divinely inspired. It is not like getting prophecies or voices from Hashem with messages but rather knowledge and understanding that Hashem gives them. Some have a clarity that includes knowledge of future or past occurrences, insight into the obstacles or decrees against which a person fights or struggles a person has. Some gedolim have said that it is not Ruach Hakodesh but just pure clarity. That knowledge of Torah at such a deep level can give them the ability to see truth as it applies to that person. (I think they are just downplaying the RH out of modesty)

So it isn’t like a secret that gets passed down or a ritual, it is a connection to Hashem and a clarity of Truth that is acquired through completely immersing oneself in Torah and refraining from exposure to tumah. Our neshamos (if I recall what I have learned) have this clarity and connecting closely to your neshama gives you this Holy connection to Hashem.

Yes, i agree with your point about that conversation and i understood and agreed with the context. I was trying to point out that no matter how right you are, or hoe respectful your tone, if those words were part of the presentation to the child (instead of just a description to us) than you “blew the whole thing”. That opening will not elicit a real conversation of the type you described you would be having with the outcome of making changes.