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You crack me up
I think most people understand it just fine but not everyone is tuned in to everyone else’s “stuff”. Not understanding why something is said should not be confused with there being no basis. Along with being more emotional comes being more sensitive, and along with having more “emotional control” comes a lack of said sensitivity. We were created differently, BH and it would be nice if that could be respected. Kalos and all.
I guess there’s a lesson to be learned when people are attacked or complimented based on what things SEEM to you, when you aren’t even sure what anyone’s point was. And look what hashkafos got your praise.
Non-political – ” I did follow the post and to me it came across as a feminist rant” absolutely, same here. How ironic that the feminist gets kudos from kluger
Yes, that I was the third poster calling him out and the only one you called on by name. That seems to negate your altruistic motive.
Number two –
“Why are some folks uncomfortable acknowledging this Chazal or its truthfulness?”If in your truest heart of hearts you believe this post is parve, then let’s just call it a day.
So by your own admission you didn’t read the thread, you hadn’t checked the dates, you don’t know what josephs point was but you feel comfortable calling me out by name for doing something the enlightened women usually do even though you hadn’t clarified that it applies to me.
I’ll try to process that without taking it personally. Thanks for clarifying I guess
I already regret that I am responding to your “post” but you seem to have the same issue here:
” Reading into his comment, unspoken animus towards females based on his previous comments and his timing.”
Are you for real? How many times have I clearly stated this has nothing to do with women? Is it okay for me to expect that you would respect what I *actually* expressed instead of jumping on his bandwagon and throwing in the same fake argument that he pulled out of a hat and then ignored my multiple denials of? That you yourself admitted I said weren’t the issue? sheeesh
I think I saw a mirage….
impressive! I guess it makes sense that you would know me better than I do.
kluger – thank you for responding. If you don’t mind an honest response, my take on that same post looked more like this:
you: Joseph seems to be the perpetual whipping boy for the more liberal leaning members here, and I personally find it disgusting.
He often makes bare bones points that get under people’s skin because they don’t fit with today’s ” enlightened ” world, and being as there is not enough there to find factual fault with, they report to name calling.me: most of your comments have nothing to do with me (referencing your complaint that the whipping comes from liberals and enlightened and calling me out for whipping)
you: maybe not specifically with you, just equally with you
I don’t know if this helps. But it is hard for me to read it any other way. So if it isn’t what you meant, I’m sorry you said it that way. But I appreciate you excluding me in the end. Or at least allowing me to exclude myself.
“3)maybe not specifically with you, just equally with you”
No. None. And calling me liberal because I don’t like divisive topics discussed on public forums is exactly what Joseph does to me and will not be tolerated on any level. If you’d like to walk it back i’m Happy to have the rest of the conversation.
Kluger- for the “millionth” time, i didnt claim I dont like what he said. 2) you obviously haven’t read or understood any of the postings. 3) the cooties comment had nothing to do with him 4) most of your comments have nothing to do with me 5) considering there were 4 or 5 posters complaining and you singled me out to tell me I was singling him out, well I would have to say you are (once again)letting loose on personal grievances. Pretty disgusting IMHO
Why?
“Of course not. It was only because you didn’t like the topic of this Chazal”
I’ve denied that straight out, and have explained more than once the reason I called you out.
What pure gaava allows you to tell me what I thought and meant in the face of being told the opposite? There are plenty posters who infer a posters intent, but a very small few who are twisted enough to insist their unsupported inferences are true even after being told its wrong.👌
Ca- not sure what set that off but …okay. works for me.
“I again invite you or anyone to actually quote any comment of mine and point out what exactly you disagree of its interpretation of the Chazal and explain how you understand that Gemorah. ”
It was pointed out clearly and explicitly that the response came from your timing. You know that because you read it in at least three posts. Here’s the connection again – the problem was not with the holy words of chazal, it was with you DIGGING THRU SIX YEAR OLD THREADS SPECIFICALLY DURING THE NINE DAYS TO CAUSE DERISION.
Period.“….when you got all angry and agitated for no reason other than your not liking to hear of this Chazal. Of course you’re embarrassed to admit that you don’t agree with the Chazal so you instead go after the messenger with nebulous factually lacking tantrums vacant of any argument.”
Thats called an inference.
Enjoy the rest of your day.
👏👏
Your blind spot is thinking that it is the Chazal we don’t like when (as has been clearly mentioned and ignored above more than once) it’s your use of it.
I hate to wake you from dreamland Neville but if you’ll read back what I *actually* wrote, instead of what you juxtaposed on your own initiative, you will find it didn’t say that at all.
Syag, you do realize, don’t you, that Obaminator and Joseph are one and the same person?
I didn’t realize. I just assumed it was someone hoping to set him off.
[shrug]philosopher – YES!! exactly! I agree with every word you said!!
wonderful!Do you know anyone searching very old threads and bringing them back to life? Only someone obsessed with a topic can do that.
As long as it’s you saying it. If I say it I’m MO and a Feminist. I mean, why else would I be objecting to this behavior?Thank you for letting it be said! And I join you in Thanking Hashem for making us exactly as He did and creating me according to His will.
Kluger- that answer is kinda lame. When my kids sit around having 3rd grade arguments I don’t join them. It takes two to tango, as they say
How did a legit halachic discussion devolve into a 3rd grade “you have cooties” fight? Sad.
Perhaps, if you think it was necessary to give mussar, you could have done it in a nicer way, especially during the nine days.
Perhaps you are underestimating the severity of that behavior at this time of year. (<—-mussar given in a nicer way)GH – I so rarely agree with you to this degree. Well spoken. And forgive me for expecting something much less (if at all) supportive of chazal and halacha.
Joseph – I used to think you were a frum, educated person with very poor role models. Today you have removed any doubt that Hashem’s will is not yours.
Feel free to feign ignorance.What’s so impossible about them?
“I stand strong on my opinion that schools must let their benefactors know how and on what their money is spent. ”
you expressed no such opinion. What you said was:
” These donors are under the impression that their money is being used to subsidize the tuition of those children whose parents can not pay”You state that the money is ‘stolen’ because the donors are “under the impression” that it is subsidizing tuition but that it is not. That is Motzei Shem Rah on a huge huge number of Jews. Besides the fact that you have NO way of knowing if it is true AT ALL, you absolutely have NO claim to it happening as a rule. If you and Joseph are unclear on hilchos lashon hora (as has been indicated in the past), then look it up.
And if you want to do yourself a real favor, either qualify it with a “in my imaginary world” or retract it.
oh really joseph? you now subscribe to motzei shem rah on countless institutions around the world? good move.
GH – 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Ubiq- I totally agree. I’m talking about the additional step of adding what the specific people involved “did wrong”. And not bothering with truth as well. For example, regarding the smoke detectors, you are right that it is the best time to drive home the point that smoke detectors save lives and are crucial. There is no excuse for adding (for example) “if only they had put in working smoke detectors closer to their bedrooms” or “too bad they had 8 kids crowded into one bedroom as I have seen so many Frum people in that neighborhood do”.
Do you see the difference?
Haimy- are you pretending to know anything about this or is this just another one of your posts where you post assumptions as fact and spread negativity? And why on top of a tragedy? And why does it get approved?
If the mods feel it is appropriate to discuss the dangers of the events that have resulted in tragedy, can they at least make the effort not to post the ones that contain misinformation, and/or misrepresentation of the facts that leave a negative and irresponsible impression of those who planned it or staffed it?
I don’t get why this is appropriate in the hours after lives are lost. I’m sure a call to tehillim would be more useful than these “public service announcements”
You have to stop calling it freedom of religion when YOUR own religion dictates that everyone should vaccinate right now, even those rebbes who paskened otherwise. It is NOT religion exempting the vaccine.
Point two – it is dishonest to write off the responses as a bias against non vaxxing, Do you dare accuse every rov (except the one nobody has ever named), of paskening according to bias? Shame on you.
Abba- did you even bother to listen to the responses you got on the other thread? Now you come here with a cut and paste of the same conversation. Is there any point in responding to you if you walk away with the same faulty thinking you started with?
” You can’t deny the fact that there are thousands of children that right after they get vaccines something happens to them. (seisures, autisim, SIDS.. )”
huh? when did that become a “fact”?
Ubiq – FAKE NEWS! Are you living in the dark ages? I heard on Art Bell (or maybe the snopes news website) I heard there is REAL scientific evidence that the appendix has a special nerve that connects the GI to the bloodstream and most of the chemicals that get injected into the intramuscular veins go DIRECTLY there. Which, of course (!!) explains why appendix rupture so often. Obviously because of all the toxins that they have to process. So that pretty much validates the claim that those aluminum balls you used to chew on in grade school went DIRECTLY to the cortical blood brain barrier!
“Also, all because you do not love what I am saying, does not make what I am saying less true.”
now you’ve said it twice, but you imply that someone is saying you are not telling the truth (or is disagreeing) just because you oppose their view. I think that is a bit naive. Sometimes (as is the case here) posters aren’t disagreeing because they don’t love what you are saying. They disagree because they believe you are wrong.
I hear what you are saying, but Harry Potter characters are not witches, they are wizards. Witches and withcraft are components of pagenism (if i recall correctly) which is assur. Wizardry is a made up thing of fairy tales, despite the fact that people tend to use the terms interchangeably.
Regarding the fight between good and evil… where does that *not* exist?Ohhh, don’t worry, we’re plenty used to it.
Wow dooms, your cut and paste skills are quite professional. Do you pay someone to find you articles or is there a “pre-screened posts to cut and paste” website you all use?
PracticalPost – so intersting. You are a young adult who cant sit still asking a 22 year old guy if he has available friends and are also a health professional who has been involved in multiple research studies. ..
Abba- you keep going on and on about the responsibilities toward children denied education when that is a false premise. The parents won’t complete the physical and they are therefore prohibiting THEIR OWN CHILDREN from attending the school that HAS accepted them. Period. Go talk to the parents, this has nothing to do with anybody else
GH – not a clue what your answering to. My comment was that that poster fabricated his ‘experiences ‘.
DBMH – I apologize for saying so but I don’t believe a word you just said. None of it.
who is saying the opposite of what Joseph said?
redleg said it well.
What I think is getting muddled is the combining of two issues. To say a woman is responsible for her husband’s growth is NOT the same as saying the end results are her doing. We are expected/obligated to foster spiritual growth in our household. We are also capable of setting an environment for either growth or decline. Examples of these would be:
If a husband has a long day of work and wants to set up a night chavrusa his wife can say, “that would be so wonderful. And I am impressed that you have that energy at the end of a work day” or she can say, “Oh…. is this going to mean I have to wait til 9 to eat supper with you or am I gonna be eating a lone every night”These situations come up CONSTANTLY in a marriage. And if going out to learn, taking on new things, being closer to Hashem, sharing struggles is met up with pride, encouragement and respect then it fosters growth. If those attempts are met with grumbling, sighs, resentment etc then it can either cause friction or outright discourage the behavior.( Just think of the teenager who decides to become frum in a hostile home. )
Now if you encouraged learning and created an atmosphere for growth and shouldered some of the inconveniences (like forgoing walks with your husband on the beach even tho you would love to), then that was your part in it, your responsibility. But that does not mean you are the bearer of the burden of the result. You can be credited for his growth, but it is still his growth. And if he does not grow in the environment even tho you did right, then he fell despite you, not because of you.
This isn’t a new concept and it is true for raising children as well. We set a tone in the house, we build up our husbands and chose what to give them positive or negative feedback for and decide what corners we are willing to cut for the sake of his growth. And these things can often determine whether or not he grows more, or whether his growth has to be a point of friction between you.
Coffee- i think you were right on.
LB, i think there are some bits and pieces getting jumbled here. If you can wait til i can get to my laptop i might be able to ease a bit of your stress.OH Boy ubiq!! They have finally done it! They have finally presented an argument SOO ridiculous it can’t even be responded to. The REAL reason for vaxing folks, here it is:
🎺 ” It’s about eliminating the 2% who are still Unvaccinated so there can never be a Vaxxed vs UnVaxxed Study.” 🎺
Mods- you can close the thread.agreed
Not much “chochma”? I actually thought it was brilliant! Since you don’t listen to or process anything other than your own words, I was saving myself and everyone else time and energy by not bothering to write things that you would ignore anyway.
your welcome.
[takes a bow]