🍫Syag Lchochma

Doing my best- i hear your pain but i think it isn’t fair for you to rant and yell at people for things they didn’t do, or things that may not quite have happened as you portray them. I am probably at least your age and none of your portrayal of jews is familiar. Did you read it? Assume it? Hear it somewhere and generalize it? It’s wonderful to always be sensitive to every one of Hashem’s creations, but not every criticism of a blk person is a condemnation. Its like the trump thing, if someone wants to say it was murder but not racism you see red and have to write that person off as all sorts of things.
Not fair. And a lot of your first paragraph is either not true, or not true outside your daled amos.

What a rude comment. It doesn’t even make sense.

Yes, charlie, we should. Had it actually hapoened we probably would.

And the fact that you think it’s an excuse for killing him shows how disgusting your way of thinking is.

DMB – oh cut it out. Ignoring the one or two irrational posters, nobody said it was an excuse to kill him. Did you really think asking people not to glirify him is the same as excusing murder? Do you know that there is documentation available online explaining how he beat a pregnant bla ck woman who he was trying to rob, pointed his gun at her stomach and threatened to shoot? Does that mean i want him murdered? Does that give me permission to be relieved there won’t be a next victim? Are you sure you may not benefit from your own shmooze with a rov of your choice?

Right wing pundit, cute.

I heard it in every CPR/first aid class I’ve taken. I will assume the others did too.

In light of all I’ve now heard i will readjust.

“Please Please Please do not take this silly advice to heart”

Thanks. Of course i put it out there as advice to follow in an emergency, not taken out of context at all. And nothing about mentioning a need to reassess the patient, or if it is actually a patient and not someone who MAY be dangerous and just trying to catch you off guard. Nope, it was obvious medical advice needing an immediate disclaimer. Glad you found use for my post.

“B. The exact method of how he died wasnt my point.”
Nor mine. And with all it took to give clarity to one sentence fragment of my post, and yet you still add this conclusion when it was never about that, i don’t know how you can think I’m silly to consider responding to be unproductive. I’d love to spend an hour with you and the mrs and chat face to face, i think it would go wrll, but this venue often doesn’t work for us.

“Here is the context:
Ubiquitin: “That cop pretty much deliberately murdered him. He held his knee there as Floyd gasped for air said he cant breathe, as even a partner asked him to get off. ”
Syag: ““ …he didn’t gasp for air and any med student knows that someone who tells you they can’t breathe, can. ””

(context for what I am about to say- I DO believe he was killed – but it did not look like he was being strangled. I know that pressure on the neck cuts off bloodflow to brain and I assumed that that was why he passed out. Combined with pressure on chest making it hard to breathe as with Mr. Stark Hy”d.)

In the video he has his knee on his neck. I was surprised that he was NOT gasping for air. I am not denying he was being killed, I am not defending the officer. I am saying that in the video he is NOT gasping for air. So my point was that you can’t say that that indicator was present. Next comment I made, and I should have used a period here and not a comma. My fault completely, was that you also can’t use him saying he can’t breather AS AN INDICATOR that he couldn’t breathe. He WAS being killed, but the INDICATORS YOU bring are not present (and are often used to cry wolf) and that is the ONLY thing I meant in those words.

Disclaimer -Do I know that he was dying? no. Do people sometimes say they can’t breathe even if they could? yes. Was the officer wrong for not reassessing YES! 100%

Do you get it now? I couldn’t be as clear as I wanted because I have to keep inserting disclaimers, and if I elaborate any more the whole clarification will get lost. I am NOT discussing motives, I am commenting on the words YOU, a physician, used as INDICATORS that strangulation was obvious. period.

Above is just to clarify the beginning of my comments to you, that one starting/sticking point, not the whole context of the conversation or issue at hand. If I have not been able to make my point A clear, than I think we need to call it a draw.

“Point being “Without a single extra word or letter, please quote my words where i said that.” Is not a reasonable request.”

I was trying to isolate one instance of what i call ‘distortion of my words’ so that I could clarify it as a starting point

Ubiquitin
Let’s try again. You accused me of saying this:

“so even in your mistaken assumption that it is safe to constrict a person’s airway as long as he is still gasping for air,”

Without a single extra word or letter, please quote my words where i said that.

Ubiq- according to your post, the op is not what you were responding to.
Also, he didn’t gasp for air, and any med student knows that someone who tells you they can’t breathe, can. And before you tell me that that statement proves without a doubt that i just said the cop is innocent, or some other inane non existent inference, i didn’t.

As far as the rest of your post, nevermind. Without a keyboard it’s not worth my time. And you respond to every comment with a way-out-there extreme response making it almost impossible to have a functional conversation. I’ll give you one example which unfortunately may then become fodder but …
“and even if that were true (that had he not resisted he’d be alive) , so what? resisting arrest doesnt deserve death.
Using your logic if not for the cop killing many stores wouldn’t have been burnt down so is Derek Chauvin (or George Floyd partly to claim for ll the looting?’
That’s not my logic, and you are too intelligent to think it is. But you do that about as often as you think i take things out of context.

No- when you carry on with your list of random hthoughts in a tone implying they are facts, is it because you hope we will believe them to be true, or because you actually do?

“I don’t care how scared you were, there are certain lines you don’t cross.”
You almost made sense until this line.
People weren’t scared, their lives were in actual danger. There was no way to know they would get a mild case. Were they makpid not to go anywhere other than minyan so as not to expose people?
You started a hock here for fun without half of the necessary onformation.
If a man who is dying insists on fasting on Yom Kippur is he stupid or also a hero for upholding halacha?

I sometimes wonder whats worse, a moser who brings bad behavior to the authorities, or a yid who brings these stories here to enjoy machlokes.

Common- i didn’t say i agree with mesira, i asked if you disagree with putting people in danger. Your response is to make some statement about your personal assessment of your own health and then silently imply that everyone in the minyan did the same, and carefully assessed each attendee? How about just answering the question.

By the way, they called you for your antibodies because you have them to give. That doesn’t infer you are safe. You may be, but your “proof” isn’t proof.

Reb E – PLEASE stop! 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️
You need to just take a breather. He isn’t asymptomatic, he tested negative ever day. I promise you he does enough dumb things for you to repory, why keep making up your own?

Reb E – what do you gain by making statements that make no sense. We get it that you don’t like him, but you can’t just decide random things apply. I don’t get the visceral responses from someone of your stature. You are too learned to be so emotionally invested in a president that you make things up.

No- if you are honest with yourself you know that it really will go away. The comment was made regarding publicity and projections of doom justifying further destruction to the economy. Evidenced, for one thing, by the blatant omission of all reports that deaths are slowing, suicides are sky high, drug and physical abuse is out of control etc. The dems want this economy down til trump loses, (forget the huge story about the unemployment rate, forgetting to mention what number of them are actually furloughed with jobs waiting for them). I don’t do conspiracy theories, but people who can falsify documents to take down a serviceman to cover their own attempts to overthrow a government can very happily allow an economy to take a few extra hits if it will help this already-in-the-works cause.

“Seems like a bad idea” works for you but someone else needs solid science?
I can’t tell if your insistance on solid science (across different threads) is mostly about a mistrust of religious authority and a need to discount their ability to pasken science matters through consultation, or do you really believe there is a real thing called solid science? Cuz many medical and science experts have differing opinions, and anything solid regarding the covid19 will take months or years. Should we wait?

“If one’s biggest concern is where to find a minyan, he should consider himself blessed. I question where is the impetus to help our fellow Jew. One father passing away gets a whole response. But dozens do not?”
Regarding this stuff, on the other thread i said you keep hanging on to it without reason. Here’s an example. Nobody here ever said that davening with a minyan was their only probkem or most important. Nobody belittled our losses. You are offended (and seemingly greatly so) by something that may not be happening.

Aside- many outside of New York were blessed by much less to no losses and a much smaller scale crises (in terms of physicality) so they have no idea what it looked like a few blocks away or across the country. I saw too many death notices posted but it was a tiny fraction of what you and GH are saying actually occurred. I don’t read the newspapers and didnt experience the hundreds of hatzalah sirens blaring daily. What is blatantly obvious to you is not even known to some of us, and you have to understand people’s opinions and feelings with that perspective. I was horrified about the two dozen(?) Loses profiled on the news sites. I had no way of knowing there were actually hundreds.

I also read a lot of opinions that having had the virus and even antibodies does not mean you won’t get re-infected. I then spoke to real life doctors different kinds including immunologist who have said that they have no reason to believe that somebody who tested positive for covid-19 and recovered does not have antibodies. 1 more prominent doctor even added that at the time of our conversation there were absolutely no cases of anyone having gotten re-infected , and that the reason they thought people were getting re-infected was because of false negatives they got that made them think they had recovered from the first round which was really just the beginning half of their one bout with the virus.

Pony- you are right, there was a very real danger that we overlooked. We didn’t understand the potential last purim and much damage was done. What is different now is that many people are among large groups who were already sick and recovered. They are not likely at risk of getting or spreading an infection. How long should that large group sit isolated and idle? Especially with the knowledge that most high risk individuals are not anywhere within reach. The doctors are asking them to remain in isolation, not because of them, but because of some other guy who may not be so careful. I do NOT say it is right or wrong, I am saying you can’t keep comparing it to before purim, and you can’t keep saying they don’t care.

“Clearly , you believe the economic pain should take priority over the niftarim.”
You made that up. It’s an outright lie

Bocher- yes. Except your claim that the virus is gone, which is far from true, i liked your post. And i agree that those in the CR who keep freaking out about people davening with a minyan (don’t know any in real life) have been embarrassingly mum about about everything else. And no coincidence it’s the same posters who expreas cynicism about most thing the communitees/rabbeim/”chareudim” do.

Specifically- what’s your story?

Pony-“rabonim are deciding what’s considered medically safe? Are they disregarding medical advice?”
Yes they are deciding what’s medically safe based on the medical input of the experts within the framework of halacha. It surprises me (saddens me) how many posters don’t seem to get that.

Picture a severely handicapped individual in need of dental work. The dentist will tell his mom how urgent it is (most proffessionals see their area of expertise as predominant) and the mom will consult the neurologist to determine the risks of the anesthesia, and then with all this information in hand, shevwill determine whether or not to proceed. Does she think she knows more than the dentist? No. But the dentist doesn’t have the whole picture.
Medical professionals can explain the risks and requirements, but it takes someone who is an expert in halacha to determine how we act on it.
Rabbi tatz has an excellent book that addresses this process.