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Considering how difficult it is for you respond to a comment without altering it,
repeat someone’s comment without distorting it,
tell over something you “know” without gross exaggeration and
stick to your own point without modifications when backed into a corner…
considering all those are true based on previous discussions,
I find it nearly impossible to imagine you having a job in an industry that requires exactitude. How do you manage to house within you such a dichotomy?I’m not sure if this will help give you some clarity but everything you described above is exactly how you look and sound to us. The oddity is your inability to process that there is actually the possibility of there being another viewpoint. But then again, you are the guy who made up half the “facts” you argued on covid as well….
Yserbius – If you were really interested you could probably go back and read thru pages of threads, or research all the old videos and newsreports online. The short answer is:
1) Based on past conversations with you, you have rarely been open to any information unless you already agreed with it (don’t worry, it’s not just you)
2) The information out there is so unbelievably skewed that I doubt it is possible to have a chat room conversation on the topic and weed out all the lies both sides have injected. It would really take a face to face sit down at a table with a computer, paper and pens.Evidence has never impressed you until now, why waste her time?
(Just sayin’)Syag > right. that 30 minute drive for cholov yisroel will cause one less surgery.
I am not sure why this is farfetched. There are many people whose life is filled with responsibilities and mitzvos. Adding one more would require subtracting another one.
Oh, for sure! I had to drop out of college and put a hold on having kids cuz the vitamins I used were a 45 minute drive away. It was just awful.
” wonders whether he needs to spend an extra 30 minutes of drive to pick up chalav isroel yogurt and milk, so that he will either learn less, has one less surgery, or disregard either the wife or one of the kids.”
right. that 30 minute drive for cholov yisroel will cause one less surgery.
Please – take whatever was you dumbest comment until now, and replace it with this one.I don’t think he thought that. I think he was hoping to insult you.
First of all, how do you know the teacher is not involved in the club? And there was a lot more to that article I just wanted to present the most concrete clipping. There is an atmosphere of acceptance of a gay life there, and they speak openly about their finally feeling like they can be themselves openly as opposed to the “oppressive, anti gay restrictions” of their high schools and yeshivas (read – requesting halachik adherence). I wish you were right. I don’t know if you have inside information that things are as you say or if it is just a pipe dream but I wish it was so.
DaMoshe- you either missed the point or you ignored it. He didn’t say being gay, he said having a husband. With all it’s forbidden implications. When the institution is accepting of this, it’s support group won’t be to discourage it.
DaMoshe- I would have been inclined to agree with your view but I hear differently from students there. Here is a tiny blurb, the rest is worse. I wish you to be right but I’m not convinced
My JSS Hebrew teacher was the first professor I had at YU who addressed a class of male YU students with, “In your future, when you have a wife or a husband, I honestly don’t care….” That comment uplifted me with an incredible amount of elation. I experienced an incredibly euphoric moment when I heard a YU professor not assume that we were all the same. Better yet, we were allowed to be different.Republicans? Stacey Abrams and Hilary Clinton aren’t Republicans. Must be a typo.
Ah, and now a word from the elitests
Ask any elderly person what the big deal is if a kid gets touched; most don’t understand it at all.
this is another bogus lie. Many elderly (whatever that means) will feign ignorance if you are referring to events that involved their peers, institutions or communities.
Many “elderly” will tell you that they just were ignorant of the warning signs and couldn’t believe the truth, especially because the victims were too petrified to spell it out in full.
Many other elderly who were actively involved in doing the sweeping were in panic mode hoping it would go away.I have yet to hear anyone in real life say something so ignorant.
I will say though, that it 10-20 years, the 2 or 3 posters here who have said such moronic things will be elderly and may still be saying it.
I’ve seen several accounts from survivors; they address what happened to them and the pain they went through as a result. But they never explain what about their experiences causes their pain, nor do they need to; it’s just a reality.
Wow! The above post makes it crystal clear that you are not capable of saying “I don’t know”
What a sham of a post. What ignorance on a topic. Just bow out buddy, just stop. Please.
“especially in non-violent circumstances”
hey, curious to know how inappropriate touching of a child without consent is non violent?
rhetorical, just answer it in your own head
lakewhut – yes, anxiety for sure. The trust issue is highly destructive long term as well and the skewed view of touch, relationships, role of authority, destroyed sense of self worth and the overall lack of safety. There is also the compounded and even more traumatic results of not being believed by the people you go to for help. This has been documentated by some as the more destructive component of the whole tragedy. Many who received awful abuse but received support and validation survived where others didn’t. I have seen this to be true among those I know personally as well.
Avirah – there is no way you have read up on this and walked away with that unless you read one lone article in an archive or heard someone tell you that they once read something somewhere. It’s not a mystery, a puzzle, difficult to trace or understand or undocumented. I don’t even know where to start an answer when your baseline is so off. Especially regarding your above posts. Please, either stop responding to things you don’t know about without stating you don’t know, or do your research.
You can go to jewishcommunitywatch and read some narrative essays and poems written by survivors that will give you more clarity than you want. Or try listening to some legitimate speakers. You will have nightmares, and it may be more information than you are open to, but then the other choice is to stay away from commenting on the subject as if you are knowledgeable. Your disinformation is more damaging than your silence.What are you talking about? What experts don’t understand it? The CR experts?
Avirah – as always when you get to MO topics, try to keep your hate focused where it belongs. It’s necessary to hate distortions of Torah and people who speak out against what Hashem wants from us but to be so hateful about the things that you have decided in advance that they are going to do in the future? well that is actually wrong. And it brings motive of your other complaints into question. You are not doing Hashem any favors.
For those of you with your heads too far deep in the fertilizer to hear anything but an assault against your beloved rights to be free of halachic restrictions let me help you along.
“he’s always absent”
for those of you who can’t see ‘internet filter’ and ‘harm’ in the same sentence and still bother reading the content, please read the above phrase taken DIRECTLY from Menachem’s post.
This, my friends, is called a red flag. When you see this descriptor of a person, be it child or adult, it is called a warning sign. Now for most people, when there is a warning sign, we move in to see if there is danger or if there is help needed or if there is some sort of intervention that we can assist with on ANY level whatso ever.
For those of you who missed it, please stay away from children.
Thank you Avrum for desperately trying to extend the myopic view of our never able to be flexible friend.
I am not the betting type but I bet $1000 bucks that if it wasn’t about internet use AAQ and GH wouldn’t have opened their mouths in the first place.
maybe try reading the post again with your guard down instead of up. If that doesn’t work I guess I can break it down for you.
really, GH? I’m surprised at you. You wouldn’t reach out for help for someone who is involved in unhealthy behaviors to the point of it affecting their daily function? I’m surprised. Is it because you don’t like their view of unfiltered phone use? I hope not because personal bias shouldn’t be enough of a reason to let a kid fall.
My comments to you were about your distortion of poster’s comments and incongruous responses. If you aren’t addressing that, then please leave my name off.
“Their only problem with it was that it has no support from Gedolim besides the Lubavitcher Rebbe, and they don’t consider the Rebbe to be a דעה.”
That is not what he said. That is a rewording with a slant.
“In other words, they didn’t argue against my point at all, rather they just said that they don’t hold of the gadol who made this point, meaning that there is some sort of animosity to the Rebbe.”
Again false. He gave reason why he didn’t like it, and then pointed out that only a daas yichid did. Don’t play games.
In your first posts you seemed like a decent guy who was sincerely interested in discussing Torah points as Torah points. The shift then began and now you are turning into just another “victim of anti lubavitch” seeing everything through that warped lens and calling everyone out as haters. Please, can we drop this and go back to your original plan or do you choose to just cry poor me on a hilltop til a chaser tells you to find a new hobby.
Menachem, I’m staying out of the politics but addressing your semantics/integrity of post.
That was not how you presented it, and that was not his complaint. You are wrong that we need to just let people use whatever names they want for whatever gatherings as long as they are for good. If I call for gatherings in the sukkas on wednesday and say to serve a seuda and proclaim your desire not to leave Hashems side, are you wrong to call me out on my cry for inspiring closeness. Point is, you can’t always cry anti lubavitch when someone argues your point, especially when they are specific. (As opposed to just name calling). In your words, if you don’t like it, move along. Tired of the victim hood game.Have a wonderful yuntiff
no need to get so riled up when you see mention of Lubavitch
In intetest of fairness – no need to get all riled up when someone expresses difficulty or concerns that they back up with an explanation that can be answered.
The only way to have an actual *conversation* about this where people give over information
and express themselves in a way that may actually be conducive to educating people who really want to know, and who may grow from it, would be to ban Joseph and avirah from this thread. Otherwise close it up, it’s just another conglomeration of people yelling while wearing earplugs.
Mods? Please?1- PLEASE don’t engage. Just wait til someone posts a real response. Not worth it.
“Halochos of competing businessmen should apply to mashgihim same way as to plumbers, lawyers, or teachers. I do not see a difference here, if there is some, please enlighten me. ”
Again, you don’t understand how hashgocha works. Go look into it yourself. I have never had success enlightening you about anything.
“you don’t ask a plumber about choosing another plumber, or a storeowner about other stores that they compete against. ”
It is clear you are unaware of what it means to be in hashgocha
“It is just a gratuitous slur towards a large group of Yidden”
That is only true when Avirah uses it. In some cases it references people who do not abide by many of what they consider chumrot but don’t always have Halachic authority to back it. I am not talking about those who do, but some are literally just lax in mitzvos and halachos that they have deemed extraneous (yes, by their own admission) and should not be allowed to be mashgichim. You will defend them with your life and call them victims simply because you abhor the concept of them being insulted, without even bothering to find out if it is actually warranted. You seem to be willing to be lax in kashrus just to be stubborn instead of researching and being careful.
Yes, yes, yes there are chareidim who are also unqualified but I am talking about you defending something on stubborn ego instead legit halacha.
You, sir, are acting as the bigot you abhor and seem more worried about defending the unknown teen than the standards of kashrus.
Do you have some fact based evidence to say he is wrong or is this part of your standard “defend MO even if they are nichshol because it’s better than being chareidi” push.
It is absolutely false that you should not ask professionals for actual inside information. Do you ask your plumber to help you choose your wardrobe?
When he’s jackk
jackk – the first time you used that line when up against a wall I actually thought you meant it. But now that it is the fourth time you have used the same response when call out for your lack of credibility you sound uncannily like a Joseph clone.
Can’t believe it took me so long to figure that out.there is something super amusing about listening to people explain why being in a sanctuary city is inhumane and almost equivilent to certain death. And with such a passion, as if it actually makes sense and wasn’t written by cnn writers or the like.
WOW!! My ZAP button really worked!!
“many, maybe not all, income based benefits require or at least presume that the person gets them only if/when he is not able to find work” no. Unemployment is for people who need work, ergo UNEMPLOYMENT. Medicaid and foodstamps are for people below a certain income per capita under 22ish, and WIC is for children under 5 in families below a certain income per capita. And here’s the kicker! Some of them have college degrees!
Sending people voluntarily from an overcrowded processing facility where they sleep on bedrolls with tinfoil blankets in 100 degree weather to a not overcrowded city to stay in a hotel in a decent room on a real bed where you are processed by people who declared themselves sanctuaries is NOT evil. And it is not proven true that the receiving cities were not informed. Forwarding them on without choice pretending you don’t have blankets, and flying people in the middle of the night to places who did NOT declare themselves sanctuaries and WITHOUT informing them even AFTER they landed…that may not be evil but it sure is disgusting, inhumane and political.
Zap – just made that true post disappear for the sake of any democrats who don’t want it to have happened.
Rw – how do you feel about gefilte fish? Asking for a friend
Wow, you are so positive and inspiring. Looking forward to future threads 😍
Who said anything about inner city failing schools? This is a very white successful district. You are just so biased you can barely have a conversation
agreed. but they are coming out of school without knowing any of it. nor knowing english. the yiddish speaking community knows more math than they do and they also know yiddish as fluently as these kids know spanish.
I work in an Illinois Public school district in a heavily hispanic area. There are many classes taught in spanish, curriculum delivered in spanish and others that are dual language, meaning they seitch off so that english and spanish speakers can each learn the other language. It floors me that nobody else in this country has such accomodations. We even have many spanish speaking staff who can barely communicate in english. I am often one of two non spanish speakers at IEP meetings and the translators are actually there for MY benefit, not the parents. The level of education in this school is way below others in the districts and it is not because it is being taught lower or because the teachers are giving less. It is an immigrant community with transient residents who move in and move out and move back. Most of their parents are illiterate in english and cannot help with homework. Many work night shifts and the kids are alone with relatives on tablets all day. I do know much of this damage is the result of covid restrictions but I don’t know how much.
The private frum schools are teaching at a much higher level than this school and every one of these kids will be allowed to receive a diploma. Nobody will hold them to how much English they have acquired. And the students are loved and respected and the parents are grateful their children are receiving more than they received.
There is an element of acceptence here that doesn’t exist in NY.You seem to argue vehemently with me in the issue of chinuch, but not in other issues of middos and politics. Maybe, just maybe, if you are generally OK with what I learned from my predecessors, B’H same will apply to my kids.
I argue your middos regularly. I have complained that your lack of respect toward Torah and Torah authorities is unacceptable. I have argued the way you talk about chazal as if they were buddies of your. I have argued about how racist and ant semetic your comments are about kollel people in areas that you are clueless about because you don’t like them.
I don’t argue your politics because I don’t care. And if your racism and lack of respect was directed toward non religious figures/issues I wouldn’t comment on those either regardless of my agreement. I only bother because your comments are stated so subtly yet are so distructive in the way of subliminal messaging and it needs to be countered.I wasn’t trying to be clever nor pretend to be quick witted. I mistakenly thought that if you realized how stupid it sounds to spew negativity while blaming everyone else for it you would be humbled into changing your tune.
My bad
Facts from observation would be “it took a lot longer than it should have to be approved”
These comments-
“a lot more neutral and positive than the sinas chinam topics you guys approve”
“My topic, contrary to your taste is actually productive”
“Should I have thrown some hate stirring attacks on others minhagim in order to get approved faster?”
Are neither facts nor “observations”And then you complain about other people’s negativity
Self reflect much?Do you use this type of verbal bullying/manipulation to get your way in real life too? There are actually more appropriate ways to have a conversation.
Let’s go back to the actual conversation again. You have lots of exciting rationalizations not to want chumros, the point we were actually discussing is that you are happier with your kid’s exposure to this other stuff than learning “too much religion”.
it is just not my family mesorah. Mine is closer to what CT described here before
Is this really a family mesorah or just what you picked? If you have a derech other than just doing what isn’t too restrictive and annoying then that would be something. But you seem to just be following what works for you. You will align with people regardless of their appropriate adherence to halacha as long as they have a foot in academia. You run to the way that is more accepting even if it means putting Torah second (or third even). That isn’t a derech. That is a comfort zone. A rationalization. A recipe for a disasterous future ch”v. You may be unaware that you have made the same distortions of halacha and middos but in a different direction. At least be honest with yourself.I , on the other hand, encourage these chumros. So the question for me isn’t what chumros they learned, but rather what Christian distortions they didn’t learn.
You said you pulled them out because they were being taught chumros that put their own parents observance in question. Now you tell us what they are exposed to instead. My point was, I hope you’re happy. Or rather that I’m sorry you are.