🍫Syag Lchochma

Sorry, not buying it. I ran my posts and yours by a few different people to make sure i was clear.

Here’s a tip for you:

You say this:
 I am just trying to respectably square your words with reality

Instead of trying to square my words with reality, try listening instead. Your reality is subjective, you don’t stuff people’s words into what you perceive as reality. Just listen and hear them out.

“There are people dying and you are saying – no, not in our community,”

I am not bothering to continue this parallel attempt at a conversation, but i will, for the record, put in writing that i didn’t say that. (And im not even so sure that you think i did, but that’s my subjective thought.)

You’re doing it again. Here’s your statement:

“My estimate would be that if your community is achieving herd immunity through direct exposure, it means you had about 3x people more dying and seriously ill than average”

You estimate wrong. I give you information, you come back with what you’ve reconstructed or imagined instead.

“I really do not understand how you can be so calm about this.”

Because it didn’t happen

What’s too bad is your assumptions that you’re narrative works. First saying we should ask shailos. Duh. I wouldn’t consider living otherwise.
Next, your whole fantasy based description of what you need to be true cuz it works for you, and then actualky thinking it’s true. Well guess what? You are wrong about all of it. And there still wasn’t mass spreading or casualties in unmasked minyanim. Can’t that be okay with you as is, without a historical rewrite?

The two shuls in my city who went maskless early on ( and were the recipients of death threats and the like from people like Yserbius and jackk – all sanctioned by Gd) BA”H had few to no serious covid cases. Had no more illness than other minyanim. Had no more serious a spread than other minyanim. Now that it is behind us in those shuls, the truth is what it is. The ones who wore masks all the time everywhere (and without any bullying or scoffing from the others by the way) not only got Covid as well (although admittedly almost a year later). but it even ran thru those shuls just the same as the others. Many of the mispallelim got it together, as did their families, in the same fashion as the unmasked shuls. I was very surprised but those are the facts on the ground. I don’t understand it, I assumed they would have few, random and isolated cases. But they didn’t.

And regarding Trumps fatal superspreaders, jackk, it takes more than one death to add an “s” to the word (I think even the family argued that he didn’t catch it there.) The doctors all announced the massive spread after the blm rallies (before the doctors were ORDERED not to ask patients where they caught it) but i guess you meant to say it’s only ok for the publicizing of trump to host super spreaders. Fixed that for you.

Should i pretend you really thought i was referring to that and not the distortions of halacha to create and perpetuate acceptance for things not permitted by torah? To quote madealiyah:
🥨

and I may add the slick CNN move. Truncating sentences to change the meaning. I did not say your comments are unusual. I said they are unusual for a shomer torah umitzvos. If my missing comma really threw you, I apologize. Commas have never been my friends.

If we can put aside the covid, masks piece (and as i am sure you forgot, I’ve neveradvocated against wearing masks) i have to say the most shocking thing for me is to see parts of the community who i respected as ehrlich and committed even tho in a different way then me, jumping at any and every chance to override halachik obligations and even resort to MESIRA! even when the science does not support it.

Some of your comments are very unusual, bordering on inappropriate for a shomrei torah umitzvos. I don’t know who your mentors are, or if you are new to it all, but if you are sincere and not just trolling it might be worth some serious consideration. That is not meant to be an insult, it is a concerning observation.

“do people put there covid, mask and vaccine status on shiduch resume already?
if not, do people ask?”

Are you for real?

Who?

“No I have never insulted a kid on national radio. 3 times.”

I wouldn’t rest on your laurels on this one.

I have not minimized saving lives, i have told you that you lie, distort, manipulate, gaslight and disrespect people’s opinions to the point that you cannot have a give and take because you believe that there is only one opinion. Yours.
That’s what i said.

It is amazing that you can’t seperate your content from your methods.

Well that’s a pretty lame, not quite reply

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🇺🇸

You cant misquote people, misrepresent their comments, skip half of their points and call it listening.

I have told you my doctor said i don’t need a madk and – you told me i read it online.

DY told you something he saw – you said he got it from a whatsapp.

I told you i spoke to several doctors IN PERSON who said the masks won’t stop the spread – you said i should try speaking to doctors.

Ad nauseam

Face reality sir,
You. Aren’t. Listening.

“on the two sides of this argument, pro-death and anti-COVID, ”

With these words you have illustrated your inability to have a conversation.

We went thru this begore. We explained that you ignored and manipulated much of our words. We even got you to hear it. But boing…you seem to have relapsed.

Either learn to listen to the words of the person you are dialoging with (it’s called being respectful) or close your computer and go talk to a wall.
For the umpteenth time, it’s not the message that’s the problem, it’s the inabolity to have a conversation.

Cruz DID offer to help pay but the truth is he shouldn’t have left. He realized it and came back to face the music. Im not defending his lapse in switching from ‘dad hat’ back to politician, but i will say that few if any of those caught brealing their lockdown restrictions owned it or gave two hoots. If he would have said. “I have to make public appearances so I need to have heat and water” (ala lori lightfoot) THEN you could call him a hypocrite.

Before this police brutality battle cry became a “thing”, there was outrage over all the killings of blacks by cops. The stats showed, if i remember correctly that 18 blacks were killed by cops. When those stats didn’t support the cause, they switched it to police brutality, and by then the excitement of getting free stuff from target took on a life of its own. But it was founded on lies.

For the last time(unless somehow this makes the point):
1. You CANNOT take a situation with life in the balance and extrapolate for a .1% death risk. Halacha is exacting with percentages required for taking risks, redusing treatments, accepting experimental drugs etc. Read Rabbi Tatz’s book on the subject
2. You cannot read a story about something and decide to apply it to something you have personally deemed equivalent. You are not qualified AND you are nogea bdavar. This is halacha, not chumra.

3. You don’t present yourself as an egotist, why are you so resistant to such a fundamental requirement.

Haha. That’s cute. But i think you meant to post that in the purim thread.

Mr. AAQ – I hear you, and I will leave the more educated here to respond to halacha, but if you don’t mind I would like to respond to your point.

Firstly, I’m not speaking to “my take” on this, this is the way halacha works. It isn’t a disagreement issue if we are meant to follow a rav. The disagreement may be on how we feel about the psak, but that does not determine the need to get one. And your choice of the word “chumra” indicates that you are seeing rules as options, or requirements as strungencies. That to me sounds like the pitfall of being nogea bdavar but I would prefer someone more learned speaks to that point.

Next, your bad pun… i get your point. I really do. Im still trying to convey that that is not your choice to make, that is merely your opinion on the choice (does that make sense? ) And you end with the rav not correcting you. I cannot pasken on his motives without knowing details, but I can think of at least three reasons why he might let it go. So you shouldn’t assume.

Regarding my doctor comment. Once again you rely too heavily on your assumptions of meaning (which i see as potentially connected to the above issue as well). People should ask their ONE rav and their ONE doctor. I made the comment with the intent of warding off a comeback like I got from another poster falsely insinuating that there is a small handful of the aforementioned who sit in a room wairing for people to come to them from far and near for that lone opinion. Meaning, there are many out there so do not think so many people are lying when they claim to each be following their own doctor’s advice.
(I hope that was clear enough to explain my point)

“Overwhelming majority” is not relevant here.

This is very hard to convey to people in fear but please understand that your frustration and pain in seeing someone make light of a health concern for halacha is no less, or maybe even yes less frustrating and painful as seeing people make light of halacha for a health concern. (Please don’t falsely apply that to other health situations. Halacha is very precise in their use of percentages)

AAQ – i think he means specifically. You have done impressive research on the various scenarios, but with halachos (and more) we bring our specifics to a rav. When we don’t, it means we chose to apply our situation to our research, and that is not foolproof. We do not always know if there are nuances or outside influences that apply, and we are very much nogea bdavar.

I will often look up basic questions in the shabbos, kashrus and muktza books I have, but I can’t do that with shailos.
Additionally, he did say he is maskless per a rav. Although i challenged it including anti mask behavior, there is no shortage of responsible qualified rabbaim AAND doctors telling people they do not have to wear them.

Hello, hello. Earth to Yserbius, hello…
Is there a reason you are pretending a huge percentage of some communities doesn’t already have antibodies? I have kids in several schools and yeshivos who have had covid run through more than 95% some of our shuls as well.
There was recently a simcha, stuffed and full, of people who allllll had antibodies. That was the condition that they were invited with. And you know what you would have said if you passed them on the street? You probably would have blamed them for murder. Why? Not because of their behavior, but because of your ignorance.
IT’S NOT PRE COVID ANYMORE, YOU CANNOT KEEP PUSHING THE “WE’RE ALL AT RISK” AGENDA!

GH- woah, speaking out of turn a bit?!
I can’t say i agree with Healths views but in all honesty, his “drivel” is no less sane then some of the bizarre things you and your peers have come out with. Why is he less entitled to his “version” of things.

No, you don’t get free reign to dig at people’s screenname no matter what excuse you make up. And this is at least the third time you’ve been called out on it in the last few months. Maybe take ot to heart.