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Well, since there are no pro death posters, I guess you too can be rejected outright.
Speaking of cherry picking one quote to deride…
You take one stupid quote made by one person that NOBODY else agreed with and use it to portray a cause of “several like minded people”Honesty has never been much of a strength for you it seems. Is it even a priority? Or is this also part if your anti religious agenda.
“If you remove mask and SD and start partying, you easily increase your risk back to the one that was before you had the vaccine. ”
I can’t believe someone with a high school education can say this with a straight face.
If having a vaccine leaves you in the same place as you were before you had the vaccine, then NOBODY WOULD BE NEEDING THE VACCINE
Coffeeaddict – i definitely think you need a disclaimer there. While i havd been told from people involved in gitten that there are many who could work things out, there are also some very serious situations that are kept secret until the wedding is over. I have a co worker who was hit second day sheva brachos, a friend’s child who was told “we didn’t want to mention this til after the wedding…” and a few addiction situations that were hidden until the individual had no more opportunities to dissapear without notice for various reasons. Those situations may not be majority, they may even be few, but PLEASE don’t forget to throw in a disclaimer for the benefit of the “victim”.
End soapbox
“That picture had nothing to do with pain or depression.”
I don’t think I experienced it to be your message, but it struck me very deeply the first time I saw it and became representative of the dichotomy of how we feel vs how we look, and how we look vs how we wish we looked etc. It really pulled me so I hope you don’t mind me applying my own messages.Davening for ya!
I was so sure commonsaychel was an early 20 bachur that I would have bet my stimulus check on it. I may have a feeling about everyone’s ages, but I can be sure they are not accurate.
wolf – I know I’ve posted this before but I’m saying it again. Your photographs are stunning. You obviously possess intense feelings and awareness of beauty. I can only assume this intensity sometimes works against you as well, your funks are no strangers to the CR.
You are a man of tremendous talent, but also of depth and perception (can perception be used in this way? Well it can now).I argued with my daughter today about an intense picture I saw online of a disheveled man looking in the mirror and a well kempt man looking back. I said this seems to be the opposite of a depressed man, who is actually well kempt but sees himself as disheveled. She said that she thinks this is not the opposite. This is a man feeling awful, who’s pain is ignored by everyone who only sees a well kempt man.
What do you think?
😁 Thank you so much for receiving it with the humorous tone I used when writing it!
Oh goody! We’ve circled back to Trump!
“people will not think that he might have medically-certified masko-fobia”
Which is against the halacha of judging favorably
aaq – you don’t seem to have a lot of positive comments toward jews, judaism unmodified, or the mesorah of rabbinical authority. I hope there is someone in your life who can help you reverse that, and I hope there isn’t someone in your life encouraging this.
Mazel and brocha.Oh, c’mon man! It’s less than 5 minutes. Just do it!
Coffee addict- thanks for that! Really great to hear it emphasized how it links to behaviors to teach your kids. I’m just sorry he kept calling people with who have less finances “less fortunate”. I would say that’s debatable, especially in this context. 😉
“When in Rome, do like the Romans do.”
Besides the fact that i am fairly certain you are wrong about your response, do you have any idea what this phrase means? How could you use it in a context of Torah observance when it’s source was exactly opposite?
Thank you dusk. I have been wondering when someone would post that.
I would just like to add that one of my classmates did move on to become a musser zogger.
“sounds like you went to the same BY as some of my daughters, where “modern” was used as a generic put-down. ”
Nope. I went to a religious zionist coed day school and went to religious zionist youth groups and summer camps until my late teens. Most of my peers became secular non observant adults, many joined the yeshivish community and a few moved to Israel to join religious zionist communities that don’t really exist here. Modern orthodoxy proved to be unsustainable and i made changes so i could hope for a committed lineage.
“There is no connection between O-O and Rav Soloveichik’s Torah. ”
Exactly my point
That’s cute. Im close with one of the nephews, I’ll have to ask him for his take on that joke because I know he would not make a move without daas torah. And I am assuming you know what their take on open Orthodoxy is as well…
“and I hear nothing in response”
Except you did, you just didn’t like it.
You keep thinking that saying it over and over will somehow make it acceptable that hearing old reasons allows us to reapply them to new cases based on what we consider parallels. Besides potentially being nogea bdavar, it’s not in our hands to do so. That’s what you don’t get. You think your smarts allows you to some permission based on deep understanding. You don’t get that your role is to understand deeply, and still turn to your rav for direction. It’s not yours to manipulate, extrapolate and apply. Period. Sorry you don’t like it. Stop trying to make it go away.
“and you have no desire to see how you can help? ”
Well, you made this up too.
Thanks for butchering the moshol. Did you really not understand that it was just to explain how point of reference effects perspective or was it just a troll tactic to avoid real conversation?
You are shocked why i argue you on something you know well, yet have no problem arguing on things you don’t know much about. My job is reading between the lines and your omission of responding to valid points while distorting other points over and over clearly indicates either an inability to converse, a lack of desire to be corrected, or trolling. All three are, to me, pointless conversations. So in a sense, I guess, you win, as winning for you means diversion from discussing that which you don’t understand, or being called out.
Be very careful before you get caught up in get stories. Two that I know of personally: one of my friends was divorcing a woman who was not quite honest in money. The court ordered that the get be given right after the finances were settled as in distributed not agreed upon.. she decided through her lawyer that the guests should be given 30 days before that and when he disagreed she went around to all the rabbis in the community saying that he was refusing and each one called him in to yell at him.
Next friend divorcing a former friend who’s family was not playing Fair at all wrote a get very early on and the lawyer sent the bais din a letter saying that she refused to accept it. This went on for a year while he was looked at as being a refuser.
I didn’t say they were mordern orthodox opinions. I said it was opinions of modern orthodox posters who don’t hold of daas torah. And i don’t know about your facts, but your adjectives were problematic. For example if covid kills x% of the population, that is not the same as saying that if i don’t wear a mask i will cause x% to die. No scientist would get away with that manipulation. No poster should either.
What shaila am i refusing to adk and where do i mention having a shaila but not asking?
You keep asking me to ask your question and complaining that im not asking it. Why don’t you ask your question?Here’s a moshol about safety that i hope you will understand, or at least not butcher.
A 75 year old man is driving down a 35mph street at 20 miles an hour. His reflexes are slower than they used to be so 20 feels about as fast as 40 used to feel. A young kid zooms past him at 35 mph and the old man jolts, goes on high alert, and curses out the teen for recklessly speeding by.
The old man believes the teen was speeding recklessly. That was his perspective and you won’t change his mind. He will swear this teen whizzed past him, he felt the woosh, he saw the blur. And because he believes himself to be the baseline, that teen will forever remain reckless in his eyes.
I have good solid science telling me you (and yserbius) are that old man and i will forever remain, in your eyes, a reckless teen. But that doesn’t make it true. It’s just a pitfall of declaring yourself the baseline.So you are implying my rav didn’t know people might die?
Or you’re implying that your definition of safety somehow is more legitimate?
Or you’re implying that even tho trusting my rav has more knowledge of this than you because i know he consulted with medical professionals, i should approach him and say 3 modern orthodox anonymous people online prefer to forgo rabbinical authority regarding covid when it doesn’t correspond with their own desires, who also don’t ask shailos because they don’t hold of daas torah to begin with want me to ask you if i should take their lead with pandemic guidelines because they said so even it doesn’t correspond with anything I’ve heard from doctors or studies?
Which circles back to not understanding the process. There are things you can learn about and look up, there are other things that are shailos. You can learn all you want and that will cut down your shailos but it doesn’t make them go away.
You seem to think that asking is to get information you don’t have. It’s about getting a resolution you are not qualified to make.
You also seem to think we wake up in the morning and submit our questions to a rabbi de jour. When you have a rav, you hear his shmoozin or his opinions or messages and you know how to proceed. If it’s your shul rav, he may get up and speak on purim conduct or madks, or listening to election podvasts. Then you know his opinion and follow it. You don’t have to call him and say, “what do i do about masks?”.
So there may or may not have bern shailos because many/most reveived tshuvos before the need to ask. And those who did have no need to post it here.
This is the tip of the iceberg. Very nice that you learn with someone who lives according to daas torah, my advice was to ask him how it works.
“Syag, I asked you and others multiple times to explain your position, ……You continue saying that I am not getting it right and not telling me what is right.”
Hullo? Hullo, is my microphone working? Testing, 1-2-3?
You asked, i said it is really important for you to find someone who can explain it in person. You responded by asking again. I responded by repeating that you really need to find someone who can explain it in person. To which you respond that I’m refusing to answer. Hullo?
Try the partners in torah program. A phone or zoom chavrusa will give you a solid regular timeslot for as long as you need to hash this out and ask all your questions. I implore you. Please.
Charlie – why do you fear anti semitism? I am confused about why you speak in trepidation about jews being physically at risk and yet you tout and support a movement that put jews and judaism at spiritual tisk. Don’t you realize that it is you who is more dangerous?
Again, you are missing the basics. Just your questions indicate that you need to sit down with someone in real life who lives daas torah and let them teach you what it means. Not a pamphlet, someone who ascribes to modern orthodoxy, or someone who has written it off. Please. Do yourself a favor.
“I think you are using this notion to support your denial. Are you saying that people in your area are great tzadikim have better outcomes than others?”
if that’s what you think then we are obviously still at an impasse. You have no clue what goes on in my area yet you feel free to tell me why my statements and observations don’t exist. Are you aware that you cannot have conversations with people if you cannot open yourself to the idea that you are lacking some information? Are you aware that you cannot take people’s statements and alter them to something they didn’t say? You think you are arguing points and really you are just talking to yourself while others here try to get a word in edgewise.
AAQ- you can’t learn SaaS Torah this way. You are seemingly missing some basics and it needs to be explained in person, by someone who actually lives it and can explain it face to face while answering your questions.
Common – he doesn’t believe in daas torah but because you do he is implying that you should have obeyed. Unfortunately i don’t think he understands the intricacies of how it works as he earlier accused those paskening differently than Reb Chaim as being wayward or choosing to not call on him in order to provide their own independent psak.
“At the same time, I am rejecting your fatalism that if it is dangerous out there, then we should give up on precautions. ”
You made that up. I never ascribed to such stupidity.
“If I understand your description, you people are not very careful, then some of the sick people are due to your being not careful. ”
Obviously you don’t understand.
“…as medical treatment now is better, about half of people getting sick a year later will pass away.. it is a big difference.”
Ch”v your fantasy should come true.
You cannot apply global statistics to a specific area. You can’t even apply local statistics to a different localitu. Do you not get it that just because you think something, doesn’t make it factual. You seem to have admitted thatif it doesn’t make sense to you than it didn’t happen. Wrll, kerp that in mind when you think you are having a two sided conversation.You conveniently omitted the point – there is no expectation that you can avoid covid without the vaccine. People were expected to get it because careful doesn’t stop it. Therefore contracting covid does not equal negligence. (Second attempt)
Commonsaychel- you seem to rush to these threads to yell at trolls and tell them to get a life. Why not just avoid the threads? Immaturity is not trolling and why do you care how they spend their time? I agree it’s a different issue if they jump into ongoing conversations with actual troll posts but going out of your way to bully posters you don’t want is really not too mature either.
Oh, i think i just figured it out. You can’t cope with the disparity that in cities where they were lax the death toll wasn’t what you expected so you pretend it was, and have the gall to post it online as an actual rumor.
I’ll just pray there’s a different explanation.Yserbius – well that was a pretty pathetic attempt at humor. Unless you’ve really lost it and think that’s true. I think it’s horrific motzei shem ra and frankly, a bunch of baloney. Too much cuomo nursing home scandal rattling aroung in your head?
AAQ- from square one til now the experts have repeated that precautions cannot and are not expected to prevent covid. Their purpose was to slow the spread so hospitals won’t be overwhelmed and to give the world time to develop a vaccine and therapeutics. Yet you keep repeating this ridiculous mantra “so they weren’t careful and got sick”, “so they did it wrong and got sick”, “so they weren’t safe cuz they got sick”. There is no source for that silliness. If you kissed a covid patient in march 2020 you probably got sick 2 weeks later, but unless you literally cut yourself off from all living beings, you probably got it somewhere in the following 12 months. Stop thinking everyone who got covid was negligent or ignorant. It’s a virus and it was never a thing to outrun it.
Lostspark – 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
“was a kosher one in Israel. ”
As opposed to…? Why is it neccessary to spell that out?
“I’ll stipulate that Joe makes no pretense of being moichiach but will make z’man moishiach more likely in our time.”
Yes, yes. By ushering us down to the 50th level of tumah. No truer statement has yet to be uttered by you.
😊
Jackk- at first i was gonna ask you why you are spending so much time on fox news, but i realized that those stories weren’t coveted there so you ate either confusing your sources or your agent is lying to you.
“Biden haters in spewing easily debunked motzi shem ra.”
I don’t know enough about this topic to get involved but I know enough about halacha to ask you to stop distorting it.
Funny you should mention hand sanitizer. From the begining i believed that using hand sanitizer was much more productive than masks. And my theory was that the guys who call the shots knew that too but didn’t want to have to supply it so they kinda dropped it early on, way earlier than they should have, and opted for pushing masks which you would purchase yourselves.
“I’ll agree to not caring about the one person out of 3 million who die, ”
Well, seems you just blew your ‘every life counts’ argument out the window. Which was pretty much your foundation for the rest of your arguments. If you can “not care” about any life at all you aren’t worth arguing with.
Best to call it quits and head for home.
A part of me believes the flu comparison is a red herring, but I do believe your disregard for the developmental and emotional damage these restrictions have caused/are causing is criminal. Escaping death but living in hell isn’t something to brag about. And playing a numbers game in this area is inexcusable.
We are telling you that it is not OK to have 90% of people infected
Correction- you were overconfidently saying that it came through negligence. This and many other comments give credence to your being from a small or smaller community. It was not meant as an insult, it was a partial explanation for an impasse.
How much do you know about skokie?
Wow, both your brains go to some really odd, and not very kind, places.
I said you must be from relatively small communities because many of your comments indicate that you live in small communities. Your perceptions and comments about your surroundings don’t match those of people in big communities. For instance if i said i waited for the cholov yisroel milk delivery you could assume i dont live in Lakewood. That’s all. The rest of the garbage you added to your posts was figments of your own unfortunate imaginings toward me.I’m guessing you and AAQ live in some relatively small jewish communities.
So would you please excuse me if I don’t have a fanatical devotion to what some people think of as Da’as Torah.
Wow. So i assume you have had this dangerously distorted view toward gedolim and daas torah since before the pandemic?
How sad. Another casualty. Another loss. Truly mournful.