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I wish i felt they were sheep. I feel they are hateful, aggressive, peers who can’t recognize that someone with a different valid approach is entitled to one. If only sheep….
You have no way of knowing the authenticity of a random story from an anonymous poster about an unnamed rabbi that sounds very atypical.
No, most mothers don’t hit and soap their kids. But as a 15 year old you probably have no way of knowing that.
“most my information usually comes from research articles or raw data that I analyze”
Except for what you completely make up and then refuse to retract when you are wrong. Even when it involves declaring jews dead, ch”v.
“I’ve been told there are no kashrus agencies that avoid lubavitcher shochtim.”
I know of at least one that asks the chabad shochtim if they believe the rebbe is moshiach and will not allow his shechita if he says yes. That has no bearing, tho, on other kashrus matters.
Thank you. But i also said nothing similar to your rewrite.
Is that supposed to be your version of what i said or your own cynicism?
They may not understand that people have questions even after research. I was telling them that it wasn’t that they just tjought of it yesterday. Does that not work for you for some reason?AFellowJew and meirs – you may not realize this but we have discussed this at length, or should i say ad nauseum on many threads here over the years. You may think that if they just ask someone or “look it up inside” it will show them the light but it doesn’t work that way in real life.
There are many legitimate questions and only a handful of posters have had some serious answers but bottom line is, been there done that. You may have to agree to disagree but they are not just walking into this out of nowhere.
You cannot bring yourself to be sorry that you declared Jews dead r”l. Or is it just admitting you are wrong that is too hard? I am having so much trouble understanding how you can state straight out that Jews died and spit out nonsense to avoid stating you are ashamed and sorry for opening your mouth in such a way. You were SO sure. And you were wrong. Shame on you for your pride. For myself I need to believe that you are actually sorry even tho you won’t say so.
You were willing to STATE that yidden in his shul were dead and are not willing to admit you were wrong in making such an awful statement, walk it back and apologize.
And not just apologize, if you decide Jews were dead, as you did, and find out you were WRONG, then the normal appropriate response would be, “OH THANK GD! I am surprised but thrilled to hear that.” Unless you just need them to be dead so badly that you can only find yourself irritated by your error.Shtark – it usually is very peaceful until someone from chabad brings in chabad “propaganda” (and usually knowing full well what will happen next) Conversations around torah, life and politics can include everyone from everywhere
And the yid you killed off? No comment? Or a retraction of calling people murderers and then finding out their “victims” are all still living?
“I suggest you ask your halakhic authority whether it is preferable to rebuke people from discussing rabbinical statements.”
You’re kidding. My problem wasn’t the rabbinical statement, it’s the stuff you add that you attribute to your rabbi until pressed for a source. And that is not a shaila.
Just to clarify, I would not care what you said or did or distorted if you weren’t then using it to make implications about halacha or justify thinngs not sanctioned by halacha.
AAQ – I never really know what it is you are looking for. My whole point was that you keep taking words a rabbi says and rearranging them and then assuming he meant that part as well. It wasn’t about agreeing or disagreeing. I didn’t have any hidden thoughts or comments that I refrained from including. My whole comment, this time and many others, is that you take things that individuals say and then use them to make other conclusions that you will also hold as if he said them.
You don’t owe me any detailed analysis. I don’t even want one. I was just wondering how you knew someone from his shul died. My guess was that you would not be willing to accept that there were no fatalities in his shul since that would go against your agenda so you declared a yid dead. But I asked anyway because maybe there really was a fatality, r”l, and I missed his mention of it. If not, that’s a pretty serious proclamation on your part. I hope you will take it back.
“Hopefully, this will be a signal for shuls to work on their spiritual value. It would have been worse if things would continue downhill without everyone noticing ”
this is just such a bizarre thing to say in connection to this covid conversation.
“This makes sense and is also a very humble psak: he is decomposing the problem into public health and shul, and judges only the second one where he is a baki. In this way, we are both right – if people in your shul are not careful in other places, then they got to be in shul. So, everyone is consistent.”
here we go again. some rav makes a psak/statement and then you convert it to something that he didn’t really say but works for you.
sigh“common, you dont have 100%, you unfortunately have 99 left”
how do you know that?
ADHD – it is not the same stimulation. Stimulants are not doing the same thing to your brain that sensory input is doing. Stimulation from sensory input (or being overloaded by sound/sight/touch) does not have the same affect on your brain as pharmaceutical stimulants. As a matter of fact, so many of those with ADHD are more overwhelmed faster by overwhelming external stimuli that it actually has an adverse effect, not a productive one.
sorry to disappoint. I really never figured in the trump piece. I never thought about what drives him and I’ve never really heard him on this topic (yes, really. I almost never listened to any clips of him speaking outside of state of the union).
overstimulation is not the same as stimulation that the brain needs.
Why would I know anything about trump’s position?
Dear name-calling-is-easier-than-just-having-a-conversation,
I will listen to his lecture because I don’t believe he said that computer games are effective as stimulants.
And guess what, I know what tetris can offer, but this is a thread about WOW. tetris may make a good fidget, but that has nothing to do with the conversation we are having.ADHD- video games are not “relaxing”. Maybe you use that word because it allows you to sit in one place, but it is just doing the stimulating passively instead of you needing to seek it out. It makes your adrenaline kick in, it stimulates, not relaxes. It arouses, not depresses.
IYK- is there a reason you are directing your words to the most supportive and soft spoken of all the posters? He is addressing you and your concerns with respect, why do you turn on him like that?
Ok, that was a bit much.
Yserbius- “People like to call out video games, television, goyishe novels, and movies as bitul zman, but things like following sports or cell phone plans (which is an honest to Hashem hobby for many) are seen as “acceptable” time wasters”Those things you mention are not bitul zman issues (in regards to the complaints against them). I stopped participating in all those things in my late teens because of shmiras einayim issues and pritzus. The exposure visually to very inappropriate behavior, immodest pics, nivul peh and even a lot of the violence (i used to love murder novels).
Refraining changed me so much, but it took a long time to get the visions and concepts out of my brain. And it really did resensitize me.
On the other hand, I was still a master at bitul zman. Those habits didn’t take as drastic a change until 9/11.
It’s very important to have down time. Nobody should question that. But i always took the approach that if i wanted to do something mind numbing, it shoulx be something with the option to stop in 25 minutes, 45 minutes etc. Sitting down at a gaming console or video that you know (if you’re honest with yourself) “commits” you to 90 plus minutes is volunteering a too big minimum.
DBS – no, not at all.
Yserbius- thanks for the attack…
In 10 years it has never taken me as much as a half hour to write a post on the CR, and in 40 years I have never seen gaming go for as little as a half hour.
Just calling it like it is.
But presented your way it does make it seem like we’re just randomly disapproving. That’s what putting a spin on something means.Torahvalues- saddest of all is that you know you’ll never know. Barr swears heads will roll and durham goes awol. Crickets on the new HCQ findings and reports on myocardial issues from the vaccine. There’s no accountability, no interest in truth and people like Yserbius calling everyone trump sheep is about all they need to say to make it all turn invisible.
It’s like a scene from a really sad movie.
“Look, Trump has been hyping this election up for months beforehand, insisting over and over again that there will be fraud. So it should come to no surprise that people saw exactly what they wanted to see when it came time for polling.”
If this is the type of conclusions you draw after research, there is a reason you work in the sciences. People don’t work that way, anti trumpers just think they do. Which is why i wasn’t interested in having discussions about my questions or conclusions with you. I was only putting it out there that someone could feel that way. Especially since it is so far from your assumptions of how we think.
The rest of your post is you just restatung again your conclusions and why you believe they must be right but that means nothing to me. Im not looking for your take on it, I’m wanting to know what happened.
Yserbius –
one of my hobbies is arguing on the Internet, so I’ve gotten pretty good at tracking down claims and separating fact from fiction.
so here’s the thing, I don’t like arguing on the internet or in real life. I was just giving my personal view of the situation, saying that it has come from gleaning facts I can evaluate myself without collecting random opinions. And that it left me wondering why anyone who is running an honest show wants to refuse an audit. Or wants to wipe their cell phones. Or wants to resist fact finding on things they swear are “kosher” but won’t allow anyone to evaluate. It is suspect. If they are so clean then prove it. And I believe that the resistance makes me personally more suspicious than the facts may have done.
Yserbius- thanks. I appreciate you addressing our/posts but i do hope you realize you weren’t addressing any of our points. Although i get the impression you may be a researcher, im guessing it’s in the science arena, not elections, so your opinions/contributions are really no more, and potentially less (due to your anonymity) valuable than any random news article.
ujm- i think you ate playing a game of semantics and over time I’ve come to wonder if it’s less about trying to cause a ruckus and more about you really seeing things this way. Just to establish a baseline here of your viewpoint, if you find out that there is unquestionable (videos, witnesses, admissions) evidence that a well respected man abused several children ch”v what would you like to happen to this man?
Thank you for supporting my point
“At that point, there is no “raglayim ledavar” available in the form of visible bruising or scars.”
IYK- there are many other ways to establish raglayim ledavar outside of those markings. And unlike ujm’s understanding, there are halahic determinations that can be case by case without requiring asking a shaila each time.
You are being more literal than any reporter would be. If that were the case you would have to call the cops if some kid says, “oh man, my parents are gonna kill me”
I think I align more with Torahvaluesoverparty. I come from Chicago so I would never even expect an election to be without fraud. I don’t assume the election was stolen, but i had seen enough fact manipulation and high government cover ups to believe that people would happily rig an election to oust trump.
Having said that, I refuse to jump on bandwagons without understanding the facts. I looked at lots of tapes and depositions (NOT news reports) from poll workers, i know of people personally who had their ballots manipulated, i saw some questionable stuff at my own polling place and conclude that there are a lot of questions. In light of these questions, i assumed that if there was not mass fraud there would be quick transparent audits to stick it in the pro trumpers faces that they lost. All the hiding and refusal to comply has done more to make me suspicious than anything else.
Do i think there was fraud? Of course. There is always fraud. Do i think there are people in high places who would do anything to get trump out of office? Of course. Many have said as much. Do I think the election was rigged? I didn’t. But now i don’t know anymore because honest people don’t usually work this hard to avoid proving themselves.
I would not even be shocked anymore if they find out trump really won (probably more likely due to hundreds of individual fraudulent moves than one big coordinated one) and they just don’t bother reporting it. They don’t even have to supress things anymore, they just ignore them.
“mandated reporters, in contravention to halacha, are mandated by secular law to report any allegations even if it lacks credibility”
False
Oh really? Alot of them. You are just beyond senseless. Did you bother reading the posts or do you just jump to frum conclusions?
And yes, you owe most of us an apology.No matter how early i need to get up, I’ve never been able to go to bed early.
“I’m glad that some people took notice now that I didn’t see any other options than to take this to those who would act.”
Nobody took notice because of your threats, we took notice because of your pain.
“but if there is no one to turn to, I must go to anti Semitic sources. I don’t want to, but being one voice, with no backup, is not possible to succeed. ”
Im sorry, i don’t appreciate your threats, and honestly i can’t even fathom your point in going to jew haters to fix an abuse problem. There are several advocates for abuse victims in the jewish community and I cannot make the shidduch for you because i don’t know you. I would recommend calling amudim and telling them what you need or want to do to help and ask them for direction.
II sincerely wish you peace and healing.
IYK- i am more than sorry for your unexcusable life experiences. The long effects of abuse is something people don’t understand. That being said, ujm/joe does not represent nor speak for “the jewish people”. Is there a reason that you decide to focus on his twisted posts instead of focusing on TLIK’s postings? Why accuse the community of being like minded with ujm?
And to threaten us with going to anti semites with your story? How will that help stop abusers? How will you feel having the blood of any future victims of that group on your hands for fueling their fire?
The community needs advocates. That’s how we make xhange. We need advocates to stop people like ujm from getting his kicks posting (and reposting) these things online. We need advocates to educate parents how to identify and assist the abused child, we need advocates to tell authorities how to stop sheltering abuse. We need advocates to protect abuse victims from being triggered by internet trolls. Do you really want to be part of change and out these people, stop them, make sure they lose access to kids, educate the communities and help victims? If you do, then call and volunteer. They need you.
And if you are not yet healthy enough to help, then please, please call them anyways for support.Reb E – your comparison makes no sense. There are no limits to how many checks you can cash and if you write a bad check it bounces. Voting is supposed to be one per customer, to a specific age and residency. If i was giving out free milk i wouldn’t care who came to take some. If i was giving away milk one per customer to residents of my condo association i would wantbto keep a record.
I said what i meant.
And i don’t understand your odd comment about the twerskis. You didn’t give a first name and the quote seemed off so i was clarifying who said it. Is letting you know you spelled his name wrong so unusual that you have to assume there is a split, ch”v? And you accuse me of interpreting for the worst…So you mean Rabbi Twerski, with an i.
Can I assume you understand how drastically different your “quote” was from the truth? I mean in terms of what you had chosen to take out of it and then present here as his words/meaning?
I really hope so.I didn’t say February-April. I didn’t give any dates. I was just calling you out on misrepresenting the numbers for the sake of an opportunity to restate Lakewoods death rate .
Who is Rav Twersky?
You are trying to prove that lack of masks and social distancing caused an increase in covid deaths but are using numbers of deaths that included those occured before it was an issue.
Is that clearer?
AAQ -Here’s what I meant:
You said to look at different communities with different attitudes toward being careful (the topic was people not recognizing low probability dangers)
Then, in continuation of that statement you bring in Lakewood, which we all know is a place you see as having a wrong, incorrect and dangerous attitude toward caution or being careful. And to “prove” how wrong they are, you specify that the death rate there was 2 or 4 times the nearby communities.
The problem is that a death rate tells you how it blows thru the community and too many social and geographical factors (and Gd) decide how it blows. The “uncaring attitude” you speak of was after the first bout of covid when the lock downs wouldn’t lift and the mask mandates were in place. During these times you and your peers talked about the murderous people gathering in minyanim and halls. If you want to know if the careless attitude really was murderous (which you claim to be a slam dunk yes), then the death rate is irrelevant. You would need to see where the second waves, third waves or surges were in those neighborhoods and in relation to the murderous events.
Things didnt’ quite pan out that way for you. The indoor minyanim thankfully did not fair worse overall than the outdoor minyanim. The weddings and funerals did not result in multiple waves AS WE WERE TOLD IT WOULD. So it is exciting for you to point out how many Jews died in communities like lakewood and try to correlate it to the attitude you disdain, but the larger scale graphing did not support your theory.
I’m guessing you will now tell me I misunderstood you. Or that I am not making sense. Okay. At least I tried.
AAQ – So checking the death rate anywhere does not find you that answer and you know it. You just don’t like it. The answer that is actually relevant to the conversation at hand about low probability risks would be the death tolls after the big public gatherings that had people predicting doom but it didn’t happen. Our original losses in this pandemic were very notable, but the unmasked shils. The in person schools and even the wedding parties that i agree should not have taken place did NOT result in waves and surges as predicted.
So can we finally talk about something else or will this topic always need to be stuffed in to keep your divisiveness alive and active?
Avi K – Are you sure you are a lawyer? I called you out for accusing HaKatan of motzei shem rah out of hate for him/his view instead of his actual words. You forgot to respond to that. And the rest of your comment is just more of the same but at me this time.
Based on those comments I would have to conclude that you have no clue what a Torah framework is, if you believe you have to exit it in order to learn something without trop. If I want to give you the benefit of the doubt, I will say that perhaps, tho you are older than I am, you missed the part of our education that encourages learning secular subjects WITHIN the torah framework, and your desire to believe that secular information can only be had by learning it outside of a torah framework is just a way to give yourself a free pass.
25 points for team blue.
I repeat, if it was the halacha you were defending, his post is not the one you would be calling out.
great answer