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That’s what i love about you, your myopia. I tell you that calling people pro death makes you sound like a fruitcake and you decide I’m anti vaccine and promoting dangerous lies. All with me saying multiple times that that is not the case. So you aren’t just a fruit cake, you also either don’t bother processing any voice but your own, or you have difficulty reading.
“I never said I respect people who wear masks unconditionally, certainly not when they are by themselves! That in my eyes is utter stupidity. ”
Oh. Wait. So you aren’t for people respecting other people and their opinions, you are just saying people should respect the people who don’t want vaccine’s opinion. Because your opinion is life saving, but their opinion is “utter stupidity” Got it. How silly of me not to have seen that coming…
“Read any pro-death”
You do realize, i hope, that when someone gets to this line they realize you sound like a bona-fide nutcase and stop reading, right?
“I am opposing you because you are telling me that I’m killing people when I talk about my opinions on the covid-19 shot”
Well then you’re wasting your time because i didn’t tell you that.
So much for respecting other people’s view points
“What you people write is despicable and comes from a place of no emunah. People are adults. People are entitled to hear both sides. People are entitled to make their own decisions. And at the end of the day, life and death, health and sickness, is in the hands of Hashem regardless what a person chooses.”
This paragraph is just bizarre.
You are opposing me because I told you to encourage people to speak to their doctors instead of using the diatribes of common folk in order to make their decisions.
I did not tell you not to give your opinion, I did not tell you people shouldn’t do their research. I told you to stop forcing your opinion based on personal research and anecdotal evidence on other people INSTEAD of allowing them to hear both sides and make their own educated choices. Why you are finding it objectionable to encourage people to listen to their doctors instead of taking you at face value is very hard to understand if your real motive is health.Philosopher – I don’t know if you even read my post. I am not a pro vaxxer or an anti vaxxer. I think that whole concept is moronic. Speak to your medical professional who actually knows the details and follow him. I agree that the media has been supressing critical information regarding vaccine injuries and effective treatments and I agree you should advocate telling that to people and that they should then discuss it with their doctors.
If you read my post to you you would know I didn’t bash you for your medical choices. I myself am on the fence about who should get or needs to get vaccinated. But my comment is on the bullying tactics, the screaming and shouting and the page long diatribes one after another. If you believe people need to know the truth, and I agree with you that too much is being censored to prevent hearing the truth, then ASK THE DOCTORS. If you were screaming and yelling for people to be aware that the info is misleading and telling them to go speak to doctors, I would have applauded you. As I said hear and in a thousand other places, it’s about the delivery.
If you know 100 people who were injured by the vaccine that would not qualify you tell people not to take it. Just as knowing 100 people who died from covid does not qualify someone to bully people into taking the vaccine People need to speak to their MEDICAL PROFFESSIONALS. And if for some odd reason you believe that their doctors are less informed than you and that is why you need to push so hard, well….
I believe covid can be dangerous. I believe that vaccines can be dangerous. I believe that Hashem decides what your ultimate path will entail but that includes making informed choices and speaking to medical professionals.
You are complaining that people are bashing you for personal medical choices and voicing your opinions about them. No. If you mean me then no. Voice all you want. And give others the same courtesy.
Philosopher- the reason the government should not get involved in forcing people to get vaccinated is because that should be left to medical professionals. Period.
Unfortunately you are doing just that but louder and more frantic. You are not a medical orofessional and are not trained or skilled in the ins and outs of this vaccine or virus anymore than i am. You should be adking your doctor for guidance, and begging others to adk THEIR DOCTORS for guidance, not frantically and dramatically dpreading horror stories and random findings at people you never met.I don’t think people should be vaccinated without facts but i don’t know why you feel qualified to spread your personal findings around instead of encouraging people to get educated.
Are you aware that if one person suffers because you talked them out of a shot it is on your cheshbon, r”l?
“some of them not even using internet, but hearing it from friends.”
Hate to break it to you but you are one of those “friends”. Sucking people into what you have decided on your own to be fact based on what you have gleanwd on your own. Completely unwilling to hear the areas where your reality failed to materialize. Exactly what you warn others about is what you are doing.Baal Habooze – i am so sorry for your loss and also for your pain.
Hashem should bentch you with continued health until 120.
How did he miss your point? I thought he proved your question was really a myth.
“as I understand it ”
I’m not sure you understand it correctly
I bit my tongue the first two times you wrote this but here we go again.
” using … government funds dedicated to support of poor by people who are able to work,”You made this up. I spoke to an administrator at the public aid office and he disagrees with your interpretation. I was also told that people who take public aid so they can pursue more lofty things (specifically torah study and stay at home mothering) are really the best use of these funds.
“make your Shabbat k’hol, but do ot rely on tzedoka”
Here’s where you do that make up halachik interpretations thing. Is your declaration of public aid being tzedaka based on something a posek told you or is it based on your feelings, your deductions or just a “sounds right”? Halacha doesn’t work that way. And if halacha doesn’t support your stance, are you willing to drop it?“Jewish anti-vaxers seem to belong to this 2nd hard-core group, fitting into everything except “rural”.”
Pure rubbish
Philosopher- if you are anti vax as a rule, none of your arguments are going to mean much because you wouldn’t have been able to be objective in the first place. When someone’s mind is made up before the fact, their views are considered propoganda, not opinion.
that’s not the simple reading. you said nothing of the sort. you were giving musser, not asking a question. You have determined what is dangerous based on your faith in yourself, and use that as an absolute. Then you decide that since you are correct, anyone not following those parameters are acting dangerously. And then you say they should look it up and see if this dangerous (self proclaimed) behavior is acceptable.
That is the simple reading.Reb Eliezer, the vaccines were developed before the existence of the Delpha variant. Having recovered from COVID-19 is a better protection from Delta than the vaccine.
you are too smart not to know how stupid that comment is.
First is when people who play with computers think they have a handle on what the immune system is doing, and second is thinking that the scientists don’t allow for variants to the best of their ability. I personally don’t know how close they were able to get to protecting from the delta, but I do know that I don’t know. I remember hearing talk of it when it first appeared and I don’t know if there is even enough data yet, even anecdotally, to determine how it is working.hml – They can’t be vaxed, but you selfish people who refuse to get the vaccination could pass on the virus to them. But what do you care? As long as you get to have your rights… what about my grandkids’ rights to be safe from disease?
please rethink this. I don’t disagree with you overall. I would never have believed there were actually people out there against masks and the vaccine just on the 3 year old tantrum of “don’t tell me what to do” Anyone around me who fights those preventions is doing so because of lack of data or presence of contradictory information and behavior (for instance people locking you down but partying maskless-obviously they don;t believe there is real danger despite their press releases)
I feel for your grandkids, If my sister was still alive she would be in the same situation, I often wonder how she would have dealt with this pandemic. But I want you to know that people really do care. There are people out there who are terrified of the vaccine for different, personal medical reasons. please don’t think that everyone out there is so selfish. And I wish them and you gezunt and arichas yomim.
And maybe they didn’t use your opinion to determine qhat is actually dangerous
From what ive learned so far the delta variant has a different symptom list than the original and is hitting a different population and in a different manner. Is that typical of a virus? Or is this just phase 2 of engineered china virus?
Resident Mortal- i never claimed i wasn’t an idiot. I also wasn’t making scientific claims about masks. I was commenting on how stupid it is to make protests against things without having your opposition based in fact/science. I don’t know who you are or how much knowledge you have about the facts out there, but i can tell you that you rant like a teenager and it isn’t giving you credibility. if you really are a grown adult with actual access to valid covid information (supporting either view), you may want to brush up on your presentation if you would like to be taken seriously.
Not getting the vaccine because you want more information or data is one thing, and more valid than people acknowledge. Not getting the vaccine because you don’t want to is infantile. It’s like these stupid anti mask protesters. Protesting mask mandates makes sense against government bodies who are ignoring the science and using it as a political pawn. Protesting masks because you don’t want people to tell you what to do is infantile. It’s equally as ignorant of the actual purpose.
There is also a need to be brrutally honest with ourselves when we feel defensive. Perhaps that wasn’t quite what was taught but was very much how it felt. Still valid pain, but not the end of the line.
There isn’t. Except to imply this is a BY thing. Which it isn’t. You could have said my daughter’s school, some of my daughter’s teachers. You chose to stick it in as a swear word, not different at all as what you accuse. I’m sorry you can’t see that.
Having said that, i am sorry the specific staff/school treated you that way. There is no excuse for it.
Additionally, Modern is not a swear word, but modern orthodoxy has done damage to yiddishkeit and being offended by that isn’t right. I never liked that either, and some feel wrongly that they can put their heart into insulting anyone affiliated with it, but they are also wrong. But that doesn’t make the abbreviated version right. It’s not for you to stand where you are and decide only they are wrong. We all have what to fix.
“As I explained above, I have daas Torah that rejects a modern idea of Daas Torah and clings to more traditional Yiddishkeit,”
No idea what that means.
“I am not sure what you mean by modern/chareidi – I am not advocating women Rabbis or liberal Tikkun Olam. ” Baruch Hashem. Good to hear.
“My kids do not go to fine modernishe schools that are available here. ” great. Hope all is going well
“You are just positioning your own view as “charedi” and anyone disagreeing as “modern”. ”
That for sure is not true. Ask Joseph who acused me for being modern all the time.
“One of my daughters sounded like that while in BY, you are surely more mature than that!”
See, theres no real reason to add the BY part other than to tie it to the context. This is what i was talking about. Anti Modern is an insult but your trashing of bais yakov…?
Thank you tho for pretty much disregarding my point completely and deflecting to barely a tangent.
WhateverNice 👌
AAQ- im talking about you, not covid. Im talking about your comments and flippant remarks about religion, not covid. Im talking about your unwillingness to see how disrespectful you sometimes are toward religion and mesorah, not covid. Religion isn’t a fast food, self serve, “ill take religion but hold the rules and daas torah please” establishment. And when you hear that you start freaking about the anti Modern comments tho you are flowing with anti chareidi comments. DoDon’you know Modern orthodoxy as a movement has killed more people than covid?
We won’t agree on anything if you continue to see Hashem as Gd only when He agrees with you.
“But I don’t think you argue with me on judgment, you simply argue on facts.”
Let’s try this in all caps.
I ARGUE WITH YOU IN THINKING THAT PEDDLING YOUR SELF CONSTRUCTED COVID GUIDELINES COMPARES IN AAANNNYYY WAY TO THE ACTIONS OF GEDOLIM AROUND REAL HALACHOS.AAQ- i appreciate you trying to emulate the gedolim as you illustrate over and over. Its really a wonderful thing. The problem is th they knew the halachos and wrre qualified to paskin. You repeatedly show that you use your personal agenda and shove it around as if you knew it to be the same Torah they were enforcing. Even within your own stories, the Berditchiver would see only good in people while you call them murderers and wonder how you will ever be able to rise above that judgement. Both the Berditchiver and Chofetz Chsim would have been dancing with joy to find Jews did jews didn’t die in many “careless” shuls but you couldn’t bring yourself to be joyous. You just claimed the deaths were unseen or elsewhere. Disappointed that your self paskined reality wasn’t holding. Please continue learning about these great people, but please stop applying your views to their actions.
While calculating everyone’s sins it may be worth some retrospection on your part please…
do you understand the concept of casting someone off as reecha, as you flippantly remark? This covid religion seems to have sucked you in r”l. Religion doesn’t step aside for scary pandemics, it carries us thru.RM- so if you made up all that scientific information then you are being stupid. Unless a doctor confirmed your feelings on it, it’s worth nothing. I have never heard anyone argue against the fact that the vaccine gives you more antibodies. The argument is about how long your own last and if there are enough.
Forgive my lack of scientific knowledge but my antibody after being sick was 28 point something. One year later is was exactly the same. Lovely. That may have defied all the fear mongering put out thete but it still doesn’t tell me that i can beat the delta. And im smart enough to know that i can’t apply my own logic or education to this. I also know the news outlets are full of garbage. But my job is to gind out from trusted medical people what works, not spew my own theories.
Reb E – BRAVO! Your blind hatred has led you to CURSE a fellow jew. how sad is that. Really now, instead of pretending you didn’t, don’t you think maybe it’s time to step out of these discussions? What a tragedy.
Anyone who considers you an anti vaxxer for waiting on this vaccine is either a bully or a moron. Just walk away.
Rational – the girls here do a lot of swimming. The local jcc offers seperate classes and free swim times. Swimming only memberships are a fraction of the price of regular memberships. The camps (cheaper day camps as well as expensive sleep aways) offer swim options.
That being said, my comment was directed at GH who often singles out “frum kids” in statements (as above) as if they are more deprived or less cultured then the global group called “kids”. And internet deprivation is one of her battle cries so i just threw it in . But now that we’re friends again i don’t want to belabor this point.Jackk- who ever said i don’t consider you a friend?
Avrum- thank you for your research.
And that, my friends, is called gaslighting.
Wow joseph, fetishes are so hard to leave behind, even if they expose you. And I’m still trying to figure out if your side kick is a stroke of luck or a sock.
oh absolutely, GH. I mean so many frum kids just spend their days sitting on a front step wishing they could afford towels so they could go swimming like the “other kids”. Or just staring into space wishing they could use the internet so they could research youtube videos on how to learn to swim in their bathtubs. tsk tsk. such a life of deprivation.
Guys, go open your own silly thread. This one actually had a point.
Oh cut it out! There are gps phones with filtets. The intelligent response is that there is little service
Absolutely. My husband was a serious back packer in his younger days and we talk about that every time we read about a lost hiker. He would probably add to stick an energy bar in your pocket as well just in case.
Funny you say that because that story came out way begore yours and I had no doubt when i read your post that your point was to prepare the conversation in advance. The “who me?” Gives it a nice touch.
But really I’d rather be friends, we’ve done so well lately 🙃
Eh. Still pales in comparison to government officials raising bond money for animals killing, burningand destroying the country.
Next topic
I am heartbroken for you!! Please except my wishes and prayers for health snd a speedy refuah shlaima. We’ll miss you.
“Fox news sends a mob to attack the Congress”
New narrative i guess…I’m so behind the times.
Jackk, can i offer you some vacation ideas?“Health, the committee is more intersted to find the truth than you are.”
Hahaha and you’re calling him a liar?
How’d you find that? Are you a mod?
just missing some of the people i used to talk to and some of the light topics we used to enjoy. feeel free to join.
Was that Chicago?