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You may want to take a closer look at the chareidim that brought them there
disclaimer: not to be taken as a haskama for YO’s anti chareidi bigotry
added – not disregarding your points, just your presentation
TLIK – If you aren’t going to mention why your word is any more valuable than everyone elses it might be more productive to be more specific about what you are yelling about because calling everyone fools is hardly an experienced, intelligent or professional manner of making a point. I was very clear that I myself was not a mental health professional. But until you know that some posters have not been dealing with mental illness for decades in terms of their own, their parent’s, their child’s or another loved one, meeting quacks, experts and the lowest of the low, to say nothing of wading thru the sewage that is our mental health system, you have no business making the statement that “None of the commenters here have the training, experience, and expertise to know anything about it.”
you obviously don’t understand the process. Why not go do some research before sitting and complaining about it?
You say no bitterness but you post posts and threads attacking different behaviors and customs and beliefs. And not in kind thought provoking ways wither. I didn’t say I give anyone free reign and the topic doesn’t interest me. I only posted to ask you to change your perspective and hopefully approach because I question that your posts are not full of motzei shem rah or lashon hora
That is not Halacha, that is money.
You seem like some bitter kid who just wants to bad mouth frum Jews/communities. I don’t know about you but when I have no first hand information about a topic, I don’t assume my ignorant assumptions are facts.
There are reasons why a hechsher would do this and if you really wanted to know, and not just be mikatreg, you would ask, not state.If I am going to put my name on a program, treatment plan, project or anything else I couldn’t do it without knowing the components of it. If someone wants me to help administer a treatment plan that uses equipment I never checked, Id be a liar to put my name on it. There is something out there called integrity and consistency. Check it out. And meanwhile maybe the mods can sort thru some of your topics and posts that are serving no purpose other than to make trouble.
Even to yourself you’re deceitful?
Especially to yourself.What a deceitful liar. The quote wasn’t
” that makes me uncomfortable just to make someone suffering from [whatever] happy?”It was
“Do I feel the need to to wear an ineffective piece of cloth that makes me uncomfortable just to make someone suffering from mysophibia happy?”Your lack of honesty is disgusting.
Too bad Gd couldn’t find a way to save them from that, huh? I mean what choice did He have?
So putting aside all your attempts to not have to accept any responsibility for your behavior, I was willing to accept the mussar that applied to me because that’s the right thing to do. Even if it hurts. If I was told my behavior was like the eruv rav, as yours was, I believe i would minimally humble myself to these great voices instead of spending hours looking for ways to wiggle out of it.
You are told that your behavior mirrors the eruv rav and your response is denial, bring in irrelevant sources to pretend it’s wrong, ignore it and then pretend it’s some “rhetoric” and now you would like some inspiration from others.
Okay, here goes. Here is some inspiration from people who focused on davening and learning. They are telling you you behaved like the eruv rav.
I hope that inspires you to change.This has nothing to do with me. This was Rav Sorotzkin and Rav Dessler in regard to behavior during COVID.
He said “Being too critical of those whom you felt were lax about safety measures, Relying too much on protective measures, are examples of kochi votzem yadi – thinking the result is from the strength of your hand -this characteristic is the main characteristic of the eruv rav. ”That is not my position. That is Rav moshe Sorotzkin with him quoting rav Dessler.
Again.
Being too critical of those whom you felt were lax about safety measures, [He is specifically referring to COVID] Relying too much on protective measures [he is still specifically talking about COVID], are examples of kochi votzem yadi – thinking the result is from the strength of your hand -.
This characteristic is the main characteristic of the eruv rav. These behaviors of yours (and yserbius) are emulating the eruv rav.
Not my words, rav sorotzkin and rav dessler.“the difference here is a highly transmittable disease.”
No. He was specifically referring to COVID.Yes, you are missing something. You are missing the difference between keeping yourself healthy, and blaming others outright for deaths and sickness, as you did, which is kochi votzem yadi. Saying proper ventilation is healthy is different than what you did which was blaming the people who died and were sick for not doing enough or doing it wrong.
Hishtadlus VS denial of Hashem
Kochi votzem yadi. A main characteristic of the eruv rav.
No assumptions made. His words. Specific words about covid.“Aren’t we doing what we are supposed to be doing?”
No, not even a fraction.
You ignored it all.
This has nothing to do with relying on miracles, it is about relying on your own strength and how you treated others.
And it was NOT my words, although you tried to push me to elaborate so that you could write it off as such.
This is about how your behavior around covid mirrored the behavior of the eruv rav.
Don’t go off on a tangent. Believing the ventilation is key and commonsense is a mazik is you thinking it is in man’s hands. This is the behavior of the erev rav. Your diversion about relying on miracles is separate and possibly not even relevant.
Kochi votzem yadi. Eruv rav.
Scary stuff.And I’m not sure calling rav desslers I r rav sorotzkins words rhetoric is appropriate.
Being too critical of those whom you felt were lax about safety measures (like calling them mazik or pro death?) Relying too much on protective measures, are examples of kochi votzem yadi – thinking the result is from the strength of your hand -. This characteristic is the main characteristic of the eruv rav. These behaviors of yours (and yserbius) are emulating the eruv rav.
Not my words, rav sorotzkin and rav dessler.Cute. I deliberately left that out of the recap to prevent you from getting distracted by it. Here it is again. Not too confusing.
“He brings a few paragraphs about how during covid the people who focused on pointing fingers at world leaders, doctors and politicians. “How critical were we of those whom we felt were too lax about safety measures? How much did we rely on those protective measures?””
He quotes rav Dessler in saying that this display is “kochi votzem yadi” and is the main characteristic of the eruv rav.Here, let’s try again without your summation, reinterpretation and denial. Are you ready to accept from someone much greater than you how wrong your behavior was?
Here you go.
“He brings a few paragraphs about how during covid the people who focused on pointing fingers at world leaders, doctors and politicians. “How critical were we of those whom we felt were too lax about safety measures? How much did we rely on those protective measures?””
He quotes rav Dessler in saying that this display is “kochi votzem yadi” and is the main characteristic of the eruv rav.Even more chilling, I was reading from a book called “The End Illuminated” by Rabbi Sortzkin. He brings a few paragraphs about how during covid the people who focused on pointing fingers at world leaders, doctors and politicians. “How critical were we of those whom we felt were too lax about safety measures? How much did we rely on those protective measures?”
He then continues in this vein regarding the vaccine being met with flaming rhetoric. He quotes rav Dessler in saying that this display is “kochi votzem yadi” and is the main characteristic of the eruv rav.
If that doesn’t shake you into making some changes I don’t know what will.Side point- if you had strep and went out with a mask, I still wouldn’t let you near me because masks were proven to be useless.
I didn’t bring the baby to the library and no, there is no difference between worrying about exposure and worrying about exposure. If the man really and honestly believed commonsense posed a danger he would have kept his distance. But he didn’t. Why didn’t he? Because he wasn’t really worried about covid, he just wanted to be a baal machlokes. How do we know this? Because if he really believed that an unmasked man posed a danger he would have run in the other direction. He was just a baal machlokes.
I was in the library yesterday and I heard a lady say. “Chani, how are you? You were out yesterday and today weren’t you?”
Chani said, “yes, I have strep”
I have a very new grandchild and strep can be dangerous so guess what I did? I made sure NOT to go anywhere near her. Because that’s what you do when you actually believe someone could be contagious and could harm you.
Actions speak louder than words.Nobody mentioned Trump. Is that just the way it goes when someone disagrees with your politics, or maybe proves you wrong on some views you have to be insulting? I keep seeing that but I’m not understanding it.
Nice attempt to lose the point.
Bottom line, if he really believed commonsense was a danger, he wouldn’t have approached him. Fakers and hypocrites.Really, it can be avoided? How do we avoid seeing men in women’s public bathrooms? How do we avoid being told to call our coworkers they? How can we avoid being obligated to be supportive of little boy clients who talk excitedly about transitioning? Etc etc.
I think you misunderstood. Biden was/is obviously cognitively incompetent but booting him means putting kamala in charge. She is also cognitively incompetent which is a tpretty accepted bipartisan fact.
I’m sure the guy wasn’t a hate filled hypocrite, he most definitely held his breath thru the whole exchange. Because I know that if someone is a potential danger to me the last thing I do is enter his dated Amos.
Total fakers and hateful scam artists.Nobody wants Harris. The only reason she got on the ticket was to make sure Biden did not get impeached. Even in regard to their relationship before the elections there was absolutely no reason she should have been chosen to run with him except for his job security
“Illinois (a republican state) has school vouchers”
😳maybe you meant ohio?
Hello and welcome.
We weren’t talking about guns, we were talking about gun control laws.😄😄 point to where he didn’t say it? Somewhere between your visual cortex and your ego.
So you are responsible for all the mass shootings and all the school shootings.
Ooo, even for you that’s a stretch. If you want to go there than every car salesman is responsible for every dui4 fatality. Oh please. Mental Healthcare is a shambles, don’t go blaming the guns.
Nope. He definitely didn’t say that
Peacho- I would like to agree that we need to find a better way to instill self respect in kids/people. I’ve done what I could for my own kids but am at a loss on what we can do on a grand scale.
As an aside, I have found that liberal work environment to be so draining spiritually that I left my workplace for a much less liberal environment. Nobody bashes the others, they just don’t condone it.Peacho- I am not arguing with your claim that people are hurting. I am not arguing your claim that some educators need to find a new way to educate. But you are 100% wrong if you are claiming that halacha is disposable or optional. I can’t tell if you are saying that people don’t regard halacha, or if you are saying that people don’t have an obligation to regard halacha. Halacha is not out there as an option.
You are also naive/uninformed/mistaken if you are claiming that living out the fantasy of being a different gender helps anyone function, helps them feel less suicidal or solves any of their pain.
I’m guessing you yourself may be the one who feels that the community has done so much damage to some that anything they oppose is the right answer. It’s not so. Some people are just ignorant, some people are just jerks but the mission is to separate True Torah from the deviant self proclaimed servants.
I’m sorry for your pain, really am, but discarding halacha is not the answer.You obviously don’t read posts before commenting.
I gave my “exposure” to the topic because the poster wasn’t willing to hear anyone with no exposure. It was a reference for the poster to know that even having that exposure did not make me agree with him.
Regarding the content, if you aren’t gonna read what I wrote, don’t comment on it. Such is the social graces of an online forum.peacho – I’m sorry, nothing is more disturbing than your attitude toward halacha.
You are complaining about 2 seperate issues here, the halachos involved and the way mentally ill people are treated.
For starters, Philosopher is the highly emotional ranting type and is yelling some party line ideas from her teachings/learnings that have much truth and have also proven very dangerous to many. It is being presented as an all out issue whne it really is not one. Avirah, on the other hand, has proven in several recent comments to just spew from ignorance even when admitting he’s clueless on the topic.I work with trans individuals and children. I also have had training in the mental health field. I have also had to take hours of sensitivity training for understanding trans individuals. NO, I am not all knowing, an expert or a mental health counselor and I won’t pretend to be.
You complain that people speak disrespectfully about individuals suffering. You are appalled that people are insisting that halacha be followed and then advocate for people to do whatever needs to be done regardless of halacha. Do you see the problem here? You are correct that people should be respected and people who are suffering should be cared for, supported and helped. But your second point deserves no respect at all. And you tying the two together makes your argument less valid.
We scream this is assur, but why don’t we talk about the things that we can change?
This is exactly right. But most people like to just scream. Why you continue this sentence to mention a database for pedophiles is confusing. While I would sign up to volunteer 24/7 on such a database to keep pedophiles away from humans, you seem to just be angry. with good reason but this is totally off point.
Or talking to young girls and boys about body acceptance instead of all the shame tactics used by tznius monitors?
This would probably save thousands of lives, mostly spiritually but also physically.
I mean there are so many things we can do to change things but instead we cry about all the perceived wrongs in the secular world.
I don’t think there is much of anything we can do to change the secular world. And as YU has shown (and several posters above), we are struggling with frum people being beholden to halacha in this area when I would have been shocked to hear that this problem seeped in so strongly in the first place.
One obligation we have that we do a lousy job at is screaming out loudly in defense of Torah without trashing the individuals who are suffering.
Hashem Yishmor
Wow, you started off right on target. But what a convoluted, twisted crazy conclusion.
Peacho- you are correct that belittling people who are suffering is always wrong. That doesn’t change the fact that it is assur to have such a surgery and it is the mishandling by the medical and mental health professionals that is the problem.
It’s amazing how some men here would rather go down as fools than admit they’re mistaken. Or in need of mechila.
Dearborn park is not a high crime area. Perhaps even Google facts are “off”?
yet more lies. at this rate the chances of any other “facts” you state being true are approaching zero.
Goldilocks you missed his point.
And I never chose to believe things based on what I want, you’re just throwing that out there with no basis. I don’t want to believe plenty of what I read here but I go look into it. He was making up facts about the frum community in order to slander them. It’s an old habit and he doesn’t seem interested or able to stop.
“In one shul I daven, there are people who were mostly careless. I feel sometimes that I am at a smoker’s club as every couple of minutes you hear a chronic cough, mostly young men.”
I’ll call your bluff. Total BS. My limud zchus is that you’ve convinced yourself it’s true so you don’t even know you’re lying.
AAQ – is deflecting your feeble attempt at absolution of blame? You do realize that halacha doesn’t your behavior towards someone based on how right you think you are, right?
Smerel – agree completely.
But there’s also posters like yserbius and AAQ who called some of us pro death among other things. They are not forgiven, haven’t asked for forgiveness and doubtfully even admit they need to. Stuff like that doesn’t just get machila passivelyIf that version works for you, go for it.
Thank you for making my day!!
I list reasons why it is not worth engaging in an argument* with you, namely your exageration and distortion of comments, and you respond that I hate you! Well done!At least you’re consistent, or a very clever troll.
*as opposed to conversations