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HaLeiVi – not sure what you are confused about specifically. There was a different thread he popped onto, telling everyone how ignorant and hateful they are and how and asking for a response. Then he accidentally responded to someone using a different screen name (currently in use) and ditched that thread, going to another with the same stuff. After a resonse or two over there he then opened this one, giving the impression it is a “new topic” but feeding on the same old one. If you just walked in, then maybe you didn’t catch that. When they are asked questions about some of their minhagim, and sources are given for why the questions are asked, the response has been pretty consistently that we are haters and bashers. That is not an appropriate response, and I think they were taught it (unless there were hundreds of chabaniks all coming up with the same wording coincidentally on their own) to keep them seperate and above non chabadniks. which I believe is even more divisive than questioning someones minhagim/hashkafos.
My kvetch is primarily on the offensive (vs defensive) tone that they have been using when the question was not framed that way as well. The manner of arguing, if you will.
“I don’t agree with ujm fully on his views on women, but the difference between him and the overwhelming majority of bnei Torah are pretty small,”
You make a dangerous oversight. You may say the difference is small, but the presentation, as is being pointed out, is not only lacking accuracy but foul smelling. If you make a 5 star steak house and put a skunk at the entrance you will turn away many people and be thought of negatively as well. When you claim to represent torah as well you leave people with a bad taste in their mouths.😄
So everytime someone takes the time to respond to one of your long question filled posts you go to another thread and say it all over again. Try sticking with one thread and answer the people who answered you. Have a conversation instead of calling other people divisive (again). When people give you concrete reasons why they cannot accept lubavitch why do you have to call them names? Why can’t you just say eilu v’eilu? Do you have to go start another thread now because I actually pointed out that we aren’t fighting you?
Regardless of how I feel about lubavitch, you are yidden and you would be treated by me no differently than any other yid. Of course you wouldn’t eat in my house or use my sivlerware and you would call them treif, but that isn’t me being a hater. And honestly, I couldn’t care less because you are holding to what you have learned.
What is your complaint?
Avirah – those tefillos you are repeating are no different than any we would give when asking someone in olam haemes to intervene on our behalf. It is true that if they are davening for the Rebbe himself to assist, ch”v, and not for him to plea to Hashem to intervene than that is a problem. But those words as is are not problematic.
The next quotes you brought up are a different story.
Health – sorry, you are totally off on this one.
I live in the land of yellow flags so you guys are a pleasure to hear. But you are a minority in the city I live in.
I hope you will stop and think about the fact that we are harassing and hating and bashing is an invention of your community, perhaps to keep you seperate from us, angry and ready to defend against us, who knows. But if you think and look hard before you let it fly out of your mouth you will see that it is more of an illusion. It was made to create a mindset. It’s like the kvetchy kid who accuses everyone who snaps at them a bully. Eventually you begin to believe it yourself. Perhaps it isn’t all these questioners who are the haters.“But people for some reason feel the need to bash it because what if maybe Moshiach is a Lubavitcher? ”
umm, no. that is not even on the radar. You seem to have missed the posts on the other thread responding to you and your other name that explained that. You call everything bashing when you don’t like it. If I complain about the way you do something because it is against halacha, I am not bashing you. Lubavitchers (yes farby, this time it is you just on rare ocassion) seem to love the words “bash” and “hate”. I see it over and over whenever someone brings legitimate taainos that deserve responses, not name calling. You don’t just call everyone a hater for finding things wrong. Do you think you are any different? You identify what is wrong in people as well. And you work on fixing it. But it starts with discussions, and arguments (boys are into that) and proofs to support your side. But you cant bring lubavitch sources as your proof of lubavitch legitimacy. That should not be so confusing.“You belong in I’m a mother where people complain about their husbands”
And religion, and Gd, and authority and rules…
So Mr. Ober Baum, I am not sure who you are addressing since most of that was not about my comment but I will respond to point 4.
1) I find that lubavitch tends to call things bashing (okay farby, not you) whenever they don’t like something so I won’t elaborate on that. On the other hand you ask what problem? I think if you read the thread (or the 100 others) it should be fairly obvious what problem “we” have. It has been listed, stated, quoted, explained, elaborated upon, discussed etc. Not always nicely but sometimes very cut and clear. So you brush it away with no legitimate response and say ‘okay, so what’s the problem’?
If I went into a store and said I needed to return a an item because the electrical parts don’t work, the color is uneven, the size is not as stated and it sparks when I use it, can the employee say, “okay, but what’s the problem?”2) And here is where you shot your argument in the foot – Feel free to start threads about all those things. We often argue halachos and minhagim, that does NOT split klal yisroel – it’s called a discussion. And guess what, if someone started a thread asking why satmar wear white socks, I would expect someone familiar with the minhag (?) would give an answer. And nobody will call it bashing, splitting or hating. If you’ve learned gemara you would know that that’s what yidden do.
looks like you accidentally responded with one of your other screen names
Sarcasm. Imitating the comment we have frequently gotten that our yeshivos teach us to hate chabad.
I love how every once in a yovel a chabad teen will come on, read one post, and start calling people names while telling everyone they don’t know all the things that we have actually discussed in depth many times over.
So it seems calling people names when you don’t agree with them is something you learn in yeshiva, otherwise why would it happen so consistently. Is that really how you are taught to deal with people who believe differently than you?
Know yourself and use what you know? Not unless you use what you know in accordance with what Torah allows. You often make statements like “than this may not apply” but it is not always used in the correct context. Society doing things is not enough to make things okay. There’s much more to it.
For greater understanding of what I actually meant, speak to a rav who works with the public and has an open house to all types. Not only will he know what to say, he will also know how to say it.
AAQ – you just got stuck on the flypaper
Avirah – forgive me for not bothering to read your long post, this is a response to the short one. Your answer just confirms what I have been saying to you here and there, there is more to communicating, educating, and teaching than just stating the rules.
I didn’t say anything at all about the woman working. I was responding to the poster displaying the lack of understanding of being a home and being at home. Anyone who doesn’t know the difference, or doesn’t want to acknowledge the difference (as elaborated on by true gedolim and talmidei chochomim) has no business discussing this topic on this forum or any other public venue.GH – Here’s the deal. I am equally frustrated and disgusted by the way a couple posters deliberately present halachos, hashkofos or minhagim in the most offensive and degrading way they can. They find a sick pleasure in rattling more modern thinkers even at the risk of misrepresenting yiddeshkeit and committing aveiros of their own in the pleasure they get in bugging others and rationalizing aveiros as mitzvos.
Having said that – that may be where we part ways. It is well and good to be disgusted over their bizui of Torah values, but you can’t take the extra step and conflate what you would like/what culture espouses/what sounds palatable with what Hashem wants from us. You have to go with halacha whether you like it or not, and if you don’t then understand it was your personal choice, and not that halacha was supposed to move over and make room for you.
But the best thing we all could do, which unfortunately isn’t doable, is to stop responding to their ill behavior. If he was begging for heroin it would be easier to walk away, if only we could stop feeding their empty spaces maybe their words would more easily fall on deaf ears. The danger is that for some crazy reason people will point to these distorters of emes as if they are the bottom line, and be turned off of the halacha and lifestyles we should be living. When actually their are better people to converse with on these matters.
“Chazal many times refers to women as ביתו (first mishna of yuma and many other places), and it teaches us that women are the house, meaning they take care of the house. ”
no it doesn’t. How do people make up ignorant comments and then post them as information? The women is Beiso because she is the home, not because she is supposed to stay in the home. And if you want the ACTUAL definition of what it means for a woman to be the home, go ask someone reliable to teach it to you instead of making up stupidities to misrepresent Torah values.
AAQ – the food distributions, as well as hot lunch this year are still under covid funds and free to all regardless of income.
That was somewhat unnecessary
It seems like your point is that if he’s born from bais dovid that’s enough with no expectations that he be a heiliga yid
You seem to be unclear about the meaning of that phrase. I’m not judging that man, but I believe we can expect moshiach to be a shomer mitzvos, and possess a level of temimus and tzniyus that far exceed someone who does that.
He ran naked in the streets and you ask that question?
Lost spark- according to his son he had years of anguish from that letter that he believed he was tricked into signing.
GH- I’m a bit distracted this morning so forgive my confusion. Did you just say AOC was a positive example of taking unqualified social media addict actresses to office or were you sarcastic?
hml – thank you. I do wonder myself why someone within chabad would be choosing to provoke and exacerbate anti lubavitch sentiment. I will join you in hoping for a quick end to it.
Regarding your comment, I too have heard so many first hand reports from friends who have also experienced nisim from the Rebbbe. It does not in any way change the other issues at hand, but it is acknowledged.
It does bother me, and I know Iv’e expressed it to deaf ears repeatedly here, you have to stop calling it hate when people speak out against what they know to be wrong. I am sorry you are on the other end of that but it isn’t personal, and it isn’t hateAnd you know that cuz mcauliffes press secretary told you or cuz you saw it on cnn?
Boy did you miss the point
Farby – you seem well intended and young so let me fill you in on something.
We have had people from chabad come in here and stir things up, defend things, scream things for years. We have had some very intelligent legitimate chabadniks tell mashichists to jump in a lake and we had a highly intelligent and articulate mashichist shlucha who probably did more damage than she’ll ever know.
So if you think we are just misinformed, or naive, or that we learned mean things about you in school and you are all set to fix the world… well, it’s been tried. Much of what we know we learned from you guys. Not under a shoe.If you want to make a kiddush Hashem and impress people with what chabad really is/should be, speak out against the nut jobs instead of speaking out against the people who had negative encounters with them.
Lastly, if my mesorah says your behavior is wrong, it’s wrong. You should be dancing that I am unwilling to bend from my mesorah and my rav. Because that’s what it’s really about, isn’t it? Why the need for me to accept yours?
And then there’s you kvetching. What category do you fall into.
I would be shocked if MO could care less. Most MO people I know don’t even know/care about the problems others have with chabad. Just look at some of our posters who can’t understand why we are defending torah if it means someone may get insulted.I’m sorry you were offended when your daughters learned halachos at the school you sent them to that didn’t jive with what you were doing. Humros? Perhaps they were, or perhaps that label just works for you. but it sounds like you may have missed an opportunity to teach your daughters humility, acceptance of authority, respecting their teachers and growth in observance. (You’ve told this story a few times with more detail so I’m basing it on those renditions as well)
What in the world are you going on about?? Do you make up your own halachas as you go along? Oh, that’s right, we’ve been here before.
Your statements couldn’t be further from reality. It is obvious where your insecurities lie, but that doesn’t give you a free pass to “pasken like mommy”, pretend women learn enough to not need to check in with their husband’s, or to call torah topics esoteric.
Huju- i was actually thinking maybe he could do mine too.
I live in a city that is heavily lubavitch but predominantly mashichist (or seemingly so). This is my exposure to lubavitch. If it is wrong, I fault the mainstream chabadniks who don’t do much/enough to come out against them. If it wasn’t for two families I am very close with I never would have known the mashichists weren’t the only chabad.
No, I thought we do mitzvos to give the rebbe nachas 🤨
Watch out Reb E, that was a loaded question
Ca- I’m not sure about that. I think they upped the credit and offered some now instead of all later, meaning it’s coming from the next tax filing (2021). The only involvement last years taxes has is that they are using it to determine how many qualify based off it.
Meno- yikes. I can’t believe I missed this….
aposhiteyid – your stories above clearly support her point more than yours.
Farby- don’t start with the insults. Calm down and present your points or drop it. If you don’t like hearing someone defend what they know is true, why do you think it’s ok for you to do it? See?
Oh, and aposhitayid, you can’t bring chabad sources to source themselves
No. Not even a little.
😄 I’d guess you are closer to 40 years younger!
I remember certain things about people if it connects somehow. I always thought it was cool that they are operating “in the future”, being 16 hours ahead. If you were from London I may not have remembered 😊Not sure what your issue is, you’re the one who said you were in Australia. And I have never heard an American call new York “up there”.
Sorry for being attentive 🙄Huju – not sure your point. So you thought you probably would get the answer in an anonymous chat room but now you realize you were mistaken? Or you thought we would research the data on this and present it but we didn’t so now you’re disappointed? How does this revelation affect those you feel let you down?
Ujm- that’s what she said. (Assuming she from the hearts)
“Thanki you for proving the point that some Trump supporters have a problem facing reality and resort to name-calling and labeling due to a lack of coherent and cogent arguments. ”
Telling untruths softly is not much of a flipside to that coin. And besides, does everything individuals do become the “mark of a Trump supporter”, cuz I eat pizza for breakfast, am outspokenly against businesses under the table and think the term “shidduch crisis” was made up to pass the buck. Are those “Trump supporter markers” now or is it only when you want to make more insults against people
Troll maybe, bored teen more likely on these types of threads
Hahaha too cute. Sorry to bust you again but new Yorkers aren’t “up there” to people in our hemisphere .
What we really think, and I can safely say I am speaking for GH, Commonsense and coffee addict as well, is that you are obviously very young and new and that we hope your posts don’t get too irritating and that you aren’t missing class.
🙃I have not tried those but they look good. Generally I find the coconut stuff too coconutty, the rice and soy milks are too thin (for my taste) and the almond milk is the best. If this is nut based it may have enough oils for the texture needed for creamer. If I find it, ill let you know how it tastes.
Then I take it back. I cannot vouch for what your intentions are, I can only respond to what is said. And sometimes I am called out for responding to what people said with claims that it wasn’t what they meant. It’s a lesson for all of us to be more thoughtful with our words I guess.
The phrase “big bad stuff” sounds more like a joke than agreement. And you have been a strong advocate against people being overfiltered (I made that term up, do you like it?) refraining from internet and relying on Jewish sources. The combination of those pieces made it pretty obvious you were kidding. I am not arguing with you that you weren’t, I am just trying to clarify where I was coming from. Perhaps I see things, perhaps people don’t realize that we aren’t telepathic.
Regarding people not immersing in garbage, not prevalent but definitely happening. Perhaps you are blessed to be unfamiliar with some of the specific sites, articles, podcasts, comedians, videos and books that have been referenced in passing during conversations. 🙁