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random praise to many things and people but specifically to Goq, for being who you are. I feel like I should probably know who you are, having grown up in such close proximity to each other, but for now it’s a Taiku.
I learned the secrets, I followed him to Shallots.
I dont know how having seen it twelve months ago would clue me in to the fact that a hello from AYC was a joke, but I am, after all, kalos daas. And appearantly somewhat gullible as well. hey, maybe next year you can come in as a mod and give out some fake personal info.
real-brisker: thanks, you have restored my faith in you 🙂
As far as the mods telling on you, my (tho worthless) opinion is that if it was someone else, they may not have. I think AYC has been hurt enough and these posts were probably MEANT to tease US but they came out mocking him/her (specifically the second post) In touchy situations it is better to err on the side of caution.
Sorry, that was in poor taste considering AYC would probably not have found it funny. Was pretty surprised you would do that. Pictured you more thoughtful. Maybe Popa would make a better “victim” next time. He doesnt get insulted.
Me too!
Just had the zchus of giving for a local baby pre op (O-)!
You mean a pint for a pint?
popa -Talk about bloodsuckers, you type O positives just take from us O negatives who REALLY give selflessly. You would leave us high and dry with nothing in return. Except maybe an empty starbucks cup with two used tea bags.
I use a buzzer on my kids. I assume I am saving $320 a year but I wouldn’t really know cuz I don’t know what the going rate is. One of my kids cuts his own hair with the buzzer.
+1
yungerman1 – not fair. A hotzolo guy should answer because he can do something about it and seconds matter. I can’t answer the phone on shabbos when a relative is ill unless there is something specific I can do to help. And in the case of the wife in labor, if you can’t wait the three minutes for him to finish davening, you should call hotzola instead. And then the hotzola guy can stop by the shul and tap you on the shoulder.
. . . But worth every penny
**capitals are in lieu of underlining for the postingly challenged**
sushe – Thanks for your civility! You have a great point. And I don’t have all the answers, which is EXACTLY why I am hesitant to join in on this. With Levi Aron I read the scanned paper with his confession. With molesters I do the best I can to find out details. Sometimes it is easier than others.
But, to me (and me alone), the difference is that I am clear about the murder and molestation being wrong AND about the perpetrators being roshoim. And I KNOW that DF is wrong. BUT, when it comes to damage done by a seemingly unbalanced person who doesn’t seem to ever have been on the derech to begin with, . . . well, I just don’t know what the halachos are for declaring one a rosho. I get the impression that her profile as a person may or may not disqualify her from being Rosho as opposed to a choteh. I really don’t know. That is why I am NOT defending her, I am OBSTAINING from making a declaration about something I am not qualified for. I hate her behavior, and I hate the Rosho. But I would need someone much more learned than me to tie it together.
I wish someone would actually ask the shaila, I’d love to hear the answer.
I wouldn’t want my husband to answer the phone in the middle of Shmone Esrei if I was in labor, I’d rather the zchus of waiting til he finished.
And besides, if it can’t wait the five minutes for him to finish, then I should have called hatzolo, not my husband 🙂
No One Mourns The Wicked – What awesome chizuk, thanks. And you are so right about going through the motions, loved that! As an aside, my sister LOVED Wicked and your screen name makes me think of her and smile. So thanks for that too.
sushe – NEVER. I am actually one of the bigger mouthed opposers. But you are asking me if I would hate a child molester. You didn’t ask me if I would hate someone that your friends neighbor read on a blog was a child molester. I will be the first to spread the name around, and the loudest (I actually have done so). But only AFTER I have checked that the story is correct. I WILL double check that I have my facts straight, which is my point in all this.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify that.
Thanks so much Think first and kapusta. I don’t mind hurting cuz it means I had something good, if that makes any sense.
Who’da thought He’d be here in the poetry thread too? 🙂
zk – I ask you why you feel a need to insult me, and you answer by insulting me. I am having trouble understanding that concept.
Also:
“We’re bidden to love our ????? – our Torah kinfolk. If after reading all the web, media, reviews etc. you still think she fits the bill, then, as someone here wrote, what are you smoking…”
Besides being a rude comment to me, I don’t consider “web, media reviews etc… “to be Daas Torah. I didn’t say she deserves respect, I said I need Daas Torah. Why do you insist that I should be drawing my own conclusions from websites instead of relying on Daas Torah? And why do you have to be sarcastic and insulting to me? Is that, too, what Hashem wants from you? I really don’t understand where throwing me under the bus helps you be a better representative of Hashem and His Torah.
Your yeast ‘isn’t working’ – your water may be too hot and the yeast are killed, too cold to activate it, or your yeast is too old. If you put the yeast in warm water with sugar does it foam up?
These were some mistakes I made and some remedies given to me that worked.
Thank you so much MP and Goq, I just miss them so much and knowing it will pass sometimes makes me miss them more!
I was afraid that that poem may have made me look like I was upset that Hashem took her so I wrote something else too. (Not like me to post poems so I’m pretending I don’t know any of you!)
People search high and low, looking around corners and above their heads.
Always searching someplace else.
For what they look for is a vision of a treasure, a hotel stay, a cruise in a ship.
But that is not what real love is all about.
That is not the ways of Hashem or the path of the Jew.
Hashem loves us and we can feel His warmth wherever we go if we know it is there.
Look near, not far. Look inside and under. Hashem is close and holding you so your heart will beat and your lungs will expand.
Love is not comfort, love is not pleasure, love is security and growth and knowing that you are never alone.
Knowing your life has been hand picked and orchestrated for you.
And the more you look, the clearer it becomes.
Because no matter how far you walk or how low you sink, you never leave the palms of His hands.
There is nothing wrong with your response, it just isn’t connected in any way to what you are responding to. I don’t know if English is your second language or if you are just very passionate so you are unable to catch my point. You are throwing lots of psukim around and lots of Torah about actual Reshoim and how tzadikim responded. That has nothing to do with anything I have said. If you feel that you have enough information about DF to hate her, feel free. If I would like consent from my Rav first, please don’t accuse me of attacking your creator and defending a rosho. We Jews don’t hate freely, and I am not sure from where you have gathered all your facts, but I don’t believe I have a clue about her beyond her misguided craziness. When someone who is actually AUTHORIZED to declare her a Rosho does so, be it a rav or Rebbe or Rabbi, I will be happy to do so. But you don’t KNOW what she is, and my not KNOWING what she is does NOT mean I am not defending Hashem. I am obviously not capable of making this point any clearer so my role, at this point, is to find something else to do. I appreciate your passion for Hashem but I do wish you would check to see that those at the tip of your sword are authentically belonging there according to DAAS TORAH and not a posters emotions.
kapusta – as you can see above I’m having a rough day. thanks for saving me :}
I thought it was hysterical but I was afraid to say so, in case it wasn’t a joke and I was just too lame to know that.
You left me.
You left me and you expect me to go on.
You think I can just wake up each day and put my feet onto the floor.
But how can I just walk along my way without you here, without you, my link to the past.
Without you all is lost.
I sit in my chair and scraps flow past, and I grab them to find they are fragments and pieces of stories that only I remember, because you left me.
But now you left me.
So now mom and dad are gone.
And all our stories that are just fragments and pieces, are stories with no life.
Because you left me and I am filled with sadness and holes and I miss everyone so much.
So you will never leave us.
Guter yid – I really wasn’t talking about whether or not DF WILL do tshuva or what it would take. I was asking how we respond as ehrlicher yidden to a person who DID deserve hate but then did tshuva. I think big deals response shows that we would have trouble just forgetting and trusting, I am sure I would, and I wonder what Hashem would want of us in that situation. Just a question I thought of in connection to this discussion.
Health – you are right, but I think it would be very hard for most people to switch gears.
Just to step back a second, it seems to me that there are people here who are being perceived as defending a Rosha, and denying the truth of the mitzvah to hate a Rosha. I don’t get the impression we are denying that it would be our obligation to hate, some of us are just less confident in declaring who fits the bill. I, for one, am questioning how you can KNOW someone is a Rosha and qualifies to be hated based on reading news stories and NOT based on having asked a shaila. I don’t think anyone here has said not to hate a Rasha. And listing her stupidities won’t do it for me, I would need halachik ‘clearance’ to hate anyone. Until then, I just pity her and her trail of damage.
Didn’t you ATTACK me when you PERCEIVED erroneously that I offended someone else? Didn’t you, and someone else, become incensed, hot, indignant, zealous towards me? WHY?? Why not only the message??? That is the point. When one feels closeness to another person he/she will ward off and unjust attack. – It get PERSONAL. One fights an enemy. Didn’t you?
No, I didn’t. And I take offense at your assumption. But thank you for proving my point.
Anonym613 – agreed.
This new (to me) information is very disturbing and it brings me this question. I don’t know what the halacha is about hating DF in particular because I don’t know anything about her that isn’t third party (or more) and I haven’t presented the shaila. I am admittedly uninformed and therefore hating her message, her behavior etc. But let’s say I AM supposed to hate HER herself; my question (really asking, not taking a position) if she did tshuva, in a way that we would have no right to question, would we still have to hate her? And if the answer is yes, does that imply that it wasn’t HER we were hating in the first place?
I am not interested in being attacked for asking, I am not defending DF or her defenders, I am not arguing with anyone’s opinion. I am just curious to know how tshuva, and our obligations fit in to this picture.
i had just told MP i felt invisible cuz my posts get passed over, and moments later you commented. I figured you had ‘heard’.
Health : never thought I’d have the opportunity to say this but I agree : )
OneOfMany – you were eavsedropping, weren’t you? Thanks. And +1 back to your post.
I can’t explain without sounding like I’m whining or looking for attention, which I am not. Suffice it to say I am grateful for your reciprocity. And your overall self 🙂
It’s not called being for Hashem when you rip a person apart without having a clue what the details are. You want to degrade Debra, go right ahead, but what right do you have to insult posters for comments they never made. This isn’t the first time you’ve resorted to calling people names without fully understanding their position or their comments. Speak your mind but cut the nivel peh already.
MP – If it wasn’t for you I would swear I am invisible. In regard to being reached out to by a non-family member; you are welcome to plant yourself on our couch anytime.
I was raised more modern and I saw some of the sheltered girls sneaking as you said. Decades ago I had an ‘argument’ with some teens about the way they were raised and told them I would NEVER raise my kids that way. My answer wasn’t to raise them less sheltered, I told these girls that I plan on raising them sheltered from things that will harm their neshomo, and TEACH them about it.
Instead of “keeping them away” from stuff like nick, jr., I will teach them why someone with a pure neshomo would rather take a pass on it. I understand that you were focusing on the issue of making educated choices, but I feel that there is a missing option. Shelter them by TEACHING them a choice, not an exposure. You can serve them cookies and then tell your kids why they would not want to choose it as a breakfast food. Or you can serve them healthy food and tell them how beneficial it is, AS OPPOSED to eating cookies for breakfast.
You can teach them the beauty of life with purity of heart and eyes, and let them make the choice of exposure when they are old enough to sneak. Once you present the t.v. show as a “choice”, you are telling them that “mommy said it’s okay, it’s just not real healthy for your neshomo”, otherwise why would you have presented it? If it REALLY was potentially harmful, their mother would never have offered it.
Not sure if I am making sense. It is super hard to condense a lifelong process into a paragraph.
Middlepath – I certainly would not condone anyone talking or whispering about you in public but I want you to know it may not be bad. Sometimes I’ll see someone who has suffered as you have and I find myself thinking about how much pain they have endured, how well they seem to be doing or how sorry I am.
I saw a boy walk past my house, he was way off any derech and very into drugs. I was watching him cuz I was thinking about how he looked exactly like his father and how his father also wandered in that direction at that age. I thought about how his father cleaned up his act and made a nice life for himself and wished the same for this boy. Appearantly getting caught up in nostalgia and warm wishes on the inside, looked very much like ‘staring’ on the outside because he made some nasty comment to me indicating he just thought I was some frum old lady giving him the evil eye. I felt awful that he thought that, and am much more careful now to assume sensitivity, and to smile. But I never woulda thought. . .
Coffee-my thoughts exactly. But it seems to be the non Americans thinking NY is America in this situation. Not much of that American list sounds like life in my hick town.
ICOT I second all of it except the airplane jump, but I did go parasailing once. Way cool!
dull: I cannot fathom how you walked away with that.
i love coffe – Don’t feel bad, he wasn’t talking to you. He took the words of your post, quoting you asking Wolf why he sends himself TO gihenom, and, in poor taste, plays on your words to ask Wolf why he ascends FROM gihenom. It wasn’t worth explaining but you shouldn’t have to feel bad. You meant well and I hope Wolf knows that.
feif – don’t waste your breath. I understand where you are coming from but I get the same thing. Whenever I tell people to try to stick to the facts so their arguments will have some substance or credibility, I get accused of “defending the cursed”. I am with you in saying that calling her names for the stuff she didn’t say/do doesn’t give more credence to the argument. But it doesn’t defend her either.
blabla – PLEASE don’t give up. Giving up does not accomplish as much as you hope it will and menawhile there are people here who love you, they just don’t know how to do it well. PLEASE hang in there, even if just for us crazy faceless names!
Sorry if I misunderstood (I wish I could figure out how to underline but my 4 year old isn’t available right now). I would explain what I thought or ask what you thought but I REALLY am walking on eggshells. I HATE controversy that involves people getting hurt so if its okay I will just leave it.
Regarding her email address – you will have to look more closely at the post links, or find some undercover mod to give you mine.
To quote BTGuy – “Peace”
coffee addict – please stop dragging more fighting in here. It is hardly for you to decide who should live and who should die. There were some nasty posts made by OTHER posters that were beyond anything Jothar posted. If you want to write to AYC then do it yourself, please! She posted her email twice. But if anyone WHETHER THEY ARE CORRECT OR NOT and whether they mean well or not, decides they are going to invite another bar room brawl in here I am going to throw up. Please coffee, just email her and talk to her directly.
a mamin – I am with you. Not only were we not aware of the entire picture then, I still don’t get most of it. But since most of the fighting is done by bunches of people who also don’t know, that is the reason I am begging for a halt.
cantoresq – you sound like a lawyer
Midwesterner – My father’s brother was also childless. I think The Steipler was in to collect for the book but am not positive. My uncle heard about him and told my dad. They both had several children afterward (my oldest brother is 54) and are mentioned in the “thank yous” in his sefer. My father knew he gave the money to “a talmid chochom” and filed the sefer away. 25 years later a cousin noticed their names in the sefer and asked them about it. My dad was shocked! He had never put 2 and 2 together in regard to who The Steipler was, and who’s book he donated to. I have it at the house, you are welcome to see it. Has his signature too!
When my daughter went to his kever last week she said she thought about the fact that she wouldn’t exist if not for his bracha.
crazybrit, having trouble reaching the lightswitch?
yup! more evidence of Chicago’s brilliance and creativity!!!
soliek – I agree
Middlepath – So well put, so well said. (not surprised) Nothing like listening to what someone actually said before pushing back at it.
I can barely get straight facts about something that happened last week let alone decades ago.
Seriously though, my parents had no children for ten years with zero physical chance of having one. My father gave money to The Steipler to help him have one of his seforim published (he was not ‘known’ at that time) as a zchus. They had several children after that.
I think he knows that. He is either being funny or trollish.