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and thanks for all the fish.
Yikes!! Ouch! Is she just clueless? Unless she is nasty spirited why would she do that unless she didn’t realize that is was embarrassing. If we weren’t speaking in public I would ask you what she said because sometimes when I do that I will hear the comment and it may not sound the same to me as it did to the one who it was said about. Is it possible this is the case?
Oh Gosh – I just remembered – if you were embarrassed in public and didn’t respond, do you realize what a HUGE zchus that is????? You should give a bracha to someone who desperately needs one (maybe yourself even?)
Good for you that you worked on it in any case. Hashem is probably very impressed and you should be too.
My 5 year old saw me crying during neilah and asked why I was crying. I said it was because I was davening hard to Hashem to give us a good, healthy year. She answered, “and you’re crying cuz maybe he won’t?”
ker-mit
(I left out the ™ )
Hey SiDi – Have a great year, shteig well, and thanks for all the lighthearted, fun, and thoughtful posts.
Oh – I thought it said fast-posting tips.
thanks mods
SaysMe – I wish I could offer you an ear to work some of this stuff out. I know how hard it is to be caught in the quicksand of hurting too much to forgive. I really am learning, though, that sometimes you can remove yourself and look at it from the outside and you find that the things they did that were soooo obviously wrong may have not been as obvious as we thought, or there may have been an assumption we made that made it obvious but our assumption was wrong. And when we can let ourselves see that perhaps there is a tiny chance that they weren’t so blatantly nasty, we are open to knowing that maybe they aren’t quite as guilty and MAYBE we can think about letting Hashem deal with them.
If we know that the hurt was our lesson, and Hashem will decide if they were right or wrong in being the shaliach and will punish them accordingly, then we don’t have to bear the burden of thinking it is our job and our right to bring them to their knees. Why do we need to pay them back? Are we in it for our dignity? We can search elsewhere for dignity. Is it that we feel we deserve better? Maybe at that minute we didn’t. Are we just too hurt to forgive? Then ell yourself that you need to be cautious of this person, you need to protect yourself from further harm, but that if they were healthy and well and KNEW they were hurting you, they probably wouldn’t have.
Sorry for the generic chizuk, I hope it gives you some nechama.
NOMTW – So glad you are knee deep in school, I wish I was! Hatzlacha in all your courses and it was great to hear from you.
Not a sheep – Love it!!
Gmar Tov everyone, may Moshiach come and rescue us all from our selves and rescue our neshomos from all these nisyonos looming so close to us.
Wow coffee, I feel like it was only 3 months ago that he was born, time sure flies!! 🙂
***side comment***
interjection – I don’t know if the comment was passed on to you or not but I find a lot of your comments very inspirational. Thanks.
*** resume ***
We used to have a guest regularly who was in the process of converting. I remember he would stop by before yom tov to make a kinyon on the food, but I don’t know why that would make sense, then I would be cooking HIS food on Yom Tov. Maybe I am remembering it wrong or forgetting something. Sam2, any thoughts?
bla bla, that reminded me of a poem I wrote so I was going to post it but realized I already did on page 10! I certainly am with you and I’m glad you checked in. I have been wondering/worrying about you since camp.
Goq – What can I say? I sure hope your brothers take this seriously but it would be very painful for them to do so. I also hope that other brothers and sisters who do this to their siblings, or watch their parents hurt their siblings will learn from this. And I really hope, as I always have, that those wives will stop allowing their monsterous husbands to destroy lives while they turn their face and say there is nothing they could do.
You are awesome, and not just because you are from Chicago and know where all the 7-11’s are. You are not just awesome because of all your growth, but because you are allowing others to learn from your agonizing life and every single change that comes of it is in your zchus!
Keep it up Goq, you are so inspiring.
There may be better pesticides now but there are more crazy people out there insisting we can’t use them. That was never an issue then.
DY – I was going to say the same thing you said in your first post!
I often hear people in the CR looking for ways to make things easier so that they can have permission to have what they want. I have worked very hard to try to manage instead with all the available things out there. If it’s that hard to check for bugs, eat a chocolate chip cookie instead. Works for me. And don’t tell me you can’t live without broccoli, most people do just fine.
SaysMe – I wrote a letter telling them how hurt I am (they may not know) and how I want to forgive but am having trouble doing so. I am hoping that it will give them the understanding of the damage they have done to me and that they will give me something to work with to help me forgive (a reason, a different perspective etc). Maybe just having an exchange with them will dull the pain. Maybe. I will see.
Jothar – Yasher Kochacha
Shein – I wouldn’t be too sure.
I don’t know who you are or if this is supposed to be funny but that writing does not resemble anything AYC would write. If I am wrong, forgive me, but if I am not wrong, this isn’t funny.
No, but I am trying to. It’s especially hard when they not only don’t show remorse, but think they are right in their behavior and would hurt you all over again. I’m supposed to forgive them because they are only shlichim, but I’m not very good at it yet.
I don’t know if there’s any more to say about Ateres than Candy has already posted 🙂
write or wrong – Just as an added note, I’m not sure what the word permanent means to a teenager. I don’t mean that derogatorily, I mean it developmentally. Remember your high school friends whom you knew you would NEVER forget or NEVER get used to leaving behind on graduation day? As you well know, what we say, and what it means to the listener are not always the same.
zahavasdad – how I wish that were true. They will only close up if you leave them while they are still unhealed and can rejoin. Once that time passes (about 6 months) it is forever. I have so many friends who would love for their piercing(s) to disappear.
It didn’t sound like you were internalizing them, you are way too smart for that. Satirical in regard to them sounds more like it.
I’m with Oomis and Sam2. But more than satirical humor, I was sure that the satire was not of what you thought of yourself but rather poking fun at the comments you expected from the ultra wingers out there.
I dont think he’s supposed to be BT at all. He is typical of the stereotype for the uber yeshivish who never saw daylight. NOT real life, real stereotyping with the exaggeration you always find in plays.
The cool part was that I recognized him from camp. Haven’t seen him since high school but he hasn’t aged a bit.
Toi – I agree with you about it being scary. I am not sure hate is the issue. I don’t hate these predators, I just want them away from potential victims (and yes, I have tremendous anger that I have to learn to deal with).
We certainly need to leave the decision making to the qualified and trained people, but the discussion on this thread (I thought) was about how the rest of us were to respond. Do we invite him for lunch? Do we look the other way when we see a dangerous person heading to a school yard? Do we disregard the changes we notice in our neighbors kid that point to abuse? You are 100% correct that we cannot make takanas or paskin, but many of us are/can be responsible for letting victims be victimized when we could have helped them, or stepping in at the right time to prevent it.
The sad truth is that at this time there is no indication that child molesters ever recover. I think I heard that the truck driver who snuck into the chasidish camp this summer was actually already on the hormone decreasing chemicals.
gaslight – its a lot cheaper than Chicago
Yossi – you have been so mysterious about your time and whereabouts. What gives?
haifagirl – I don’t mind at all that they don’t share their whole wheat roll, I would mind if they would pass out sugar cookies and keep the chocolate chip ones for themselves.
I’m always saying something about Chicago but not necessarily in this context.
mischiefmaker – you are very impressive. Hatzlocha to you.
HI MOISHY!!!!!!!! long time no read!
By the way, you may not be aware that there are many times when halacha rules based on the expectations of future behavior as dictated by the prognosis of medical and psychological conditions. It is well within halacha for a posek to use those guidelines.
You mentioned it in a previous post that we are obligated to forgive those who have repented, but still have not supported how you KNOW they have done tshuva and have not mentioned how you will protect the kids meanwhile. We , on the other hand, never mentioned hanging and quartering in any post.
We recommend strict shmira or segragation while getting treatment. The fact that I couldn’t care less if they live or die was not a reflection on what I recommend should be done TO them. I have been very clear that they be kept away from kids, you have only advocated for us not asking that they be treated like the danger they have proven themselves to be. What do you recommend they do while they are not done doing tshuva? How do you recommend we keep children safe from them without making them known? Do you have in interest in keeping others safe or just in making sure these friends of yours are not jostled?
I have a friend who can clap with one hand. It sounds kind of like someone clapping.
And as an aside, I was addressing Aries specifically as someone who shares my frustration and has first hand experience to speak from, not an armchair opinion.
It helps to address the persons comment after reading it and knowing what they actually said. This is the second or third time you have brought up my desire to go against torah by hurting people who have done tshuva. You have no clue if someone did tshuva or not, you just want me to pretend they did. And I was VERY clear in the above post and others that if you PROMISE to keep the kids around them safe, then you are welcome to keep them private. You want us to assume they did tshuva? and you are willing to put them as a michsohol to kids because when you asked if they did tshuva they said yes?
I know a 14 year old who molested a little girl because he didn’t want to wait 4 years to try the things he read about. He was almost OTD and nobody wanted to upset him so they looked the other way. GUESS WHAT?!!! He didn’t stop molesting, he went OTD anyway, and several lives were DESTROYED.
Next time I see him I will ask him if giving him the benefit of the doubt with no premise to do so worked for him.
Aries: Do you have an opinion you can offer on why there are people (besides co workers and religious authority figures) defending molesters? Outside of being a relative or someone who just likes to be contrary and contravertial I would expect this to be one subject most laymen would all be together on. I have been searching for years for a way to be dan lkaf zchus to no avail.
Mischief: you can be proud and grateful to have reached a level of empathy after all you have been through, I sure havent. But I am not sure your harshness toward YT is either fair or rational. Think of him as someone who would have walked thru fire to save you when it was you on the recieving end.
ICOT – I agree and I was hoping to have contributed to that process thru clarification. I wonder though, how personalization could bring anyone to the side of the perpetrator. A question I have always pondered. Especially knowing how the other side developed their bias.
Those of us who wish to send the perpetrator to a wasteland would be more than happy if he was living somewhere and getting help with the promise of NEVER EVER EVER being around children. Those of you who ridiculously think we are victimizing the perpetrator, are only asking for his freedom and safety, not a word has come from your mouths about agreeing he should be kept away from others. If you PROMISE me you will never leave him unattended, than I don’t give a darn who he is cuz I know my kids are safe. You want him free and unidentified and are offerring NOTHING to protect the kids. That is confusing to me.
And where exactly should they live anyways?
but once they sincerely demonstrate they have done so —
Let them live by you for a bit. If you find one who goes years without touching anyone til the day he dies, call me. I’ll find him an apartment.
My brother must live on the “other side of the tracks”. I didn’t meet a lot of yeshivish people, but I did meet yeshivish-ish people. It’s a nice community, reminds me of home (except the hills).
A known offender died this week and all I can think of, besides how much fear his neshama must be feeling now that it is FINALLY cured, is how my friends NEVER have to worry about bumping into him in the streets anymore. One less trauma to deal with.
bubka – I will hope you are joking. YES, they should be branded with a hot iron because all research shows that they don’t successfully rehabilitate. So much so that they are the ONLY ones that are legally excluded from section 8 group housing in some states. Where should they live? I don’t care, let them drop dead or live in a cave. And yes, they should be in a neighborhood where they are watched. They should be monitored, not protected. But the ‘wonderful’ people who have them over for shabbos meals often forget to make CERTAIN that there are no children at the table as well. And then, sometimes, those children are approached by the predators who introduce themselves as friends who shared a shabbos table. Do you want that on your head?
I was there last month and I didn’t mind. That says a lot.
I’m guessing the internet isn’t working in there cuz Goq hasn’t posted all day!
That was when I made the final leap to chrome. Couldn’t take it anymore. No problems since.
Englishman – In my case I am an FFB who became more observant, sincere and knowledgeable than I was growing up. B”H no OTD involved.
write or wrong – Don’t underestimate how much is heard regardless of the response. Interjections words can be said without expecting an answer. I do that often in difficult situations as I mentioned above. They hear.