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uneeq – this isn’t funny. Why do you chose to make bad feelings?
I have seen a letter from the girl’s father in support of weberman.
Not true AT ALL – His letter ONLY stated he tried to keep it out of the courts. If he thought Weberman was innocent, WHY DID HE NOT SAY SO in this letter???? To me this is more proof of weberman’s guilt than a non Jewish court could ever give.
Ben Levi – there was evidence. Children who aren’t abused cannot make up stories and keep them straight under such cross examination. I have no doubt you have believed people who have told you things without actually seeing it yourself. Anyone who works with abused kids, including mashgichim and Rebbes, can tell when a person is speaking truth about this.
Can I please ask you a question straight up? Not argumentatively. I am REALLY just trying to understand. Since you weren’t there in those rooms, how are you able to profess SO strongly that it didn’t happen, to the point of calling a girl horrific names? What makes you choose insisting she is lying, instead of acknowledging that you yourself have no evidence of anything, and just deciding to not be mekabel? I hope you will answer this sincerely.
Mazel Tov MP!! She must be one lucky lady! 🙂
Your chumrah should be not to use the internet for a week.
I don’t believe not using the internet is a chumra. I think using it is a kulla.
Ben Levi, I have been very impressed with your respectful tone but I am floored.
As for the Bleach Thrower.
Considering it was in self-defense of the person why would they have to deal with it.
As for the spitters.
I don’t know of any, but if someone uses foul language to abuse the Rabbonim and Askonim that lead a community then in a public forum and seeks to publicly disparage the community that said spitters are very grateful to, then I would think he should be happy that spitting is all that happens to him.
Those are some frightening words. If it is self defense you can throw bleach in someones face? Maybe if you are defending yourself from someone with a gun while you are in a laundromat. Self defense from “verbal harassment” warrants BLEACH in someone’s face?
And the spitting is okay because he is lucky he is only being spat at? So your community really DOES advocate for these types of behaviors?
I’d rather have a tuition crisis, chasunah crisis, and a bad case of acne than live among people who actually excuse treating Jews like that. As much as I disagree with everything the Satmar community has done regarding this trial I refuse to speak out against the satmar community. But if you will hold your head high and speak proudly about these types of behaviors, and will call a girl a zonah because you don’t want her to be telling the truth (there is no more proof that she WASN’T telling the truth than that she was), then I need to rethink my position.
But no one ever asks the trained one’s.
Where are you coming from?
What do you base your knowledge on?
I’m sorry but this also is not so. We have NEVER allowed a therapist or mashgiach of any kind near our children without asking this question and more regarding their hashkafos and tmimus.
I will never ever earn the right of people to say “We take you seriously but if you accuse someone you have to have some proof, you have to have something to back you up becuase we as a society cannot allow you to destroy a persons life based on your word against his”.
A few more Rabbeim have now realized this and a few more smart competent Rabbeim have now decided not to enter the field.
A few more Rabbeim have now decided.
The underpay I could put up with.
The lack of respect I could put up with.
But I can’t risk my life and family.
That was very thoughtfully written, and I very respectfully disagree. That is not how it happens. Nobody gets taken down without lots of unexplained behavior accompanying the accusations, and the Rabbaim who are sincere know full well that those who behave appropriately don’t end up in gihenom. I don’t believe that those who REALLY do help children will worry that this could happen to them. The fear comes from those who don’t want to believe that there was basis for the accusations, but if you keep your behavior above board, Sheker ain lo raglayim.
Thank you for your sincere post. I would like to add a line or two to the middle,
“Another abuse victim sees the cries of “sheker” and seals her pain within,
Another little boy who is suffering sees the angery public and changes his mind about getting help,
Another marriage is destroyed by an abuse victim who can’t get close,
And fears that honesty will label him/her a liar”
achosid – your personal attack against me as a person, as opposed to my opinions, was out of line and uncalled for. You hurt another Yid personally, and I am not moichel. Nor am I moichel mods who let it through, refused to allow me to defend myself and refused to delete it though asked.
Oh the irony of the OP
when wasn’t it?
All those who say he is innocent – If you say that we don’t have proof and shouldn’t call him guilty, I will agree, as long as you don’t call him innocent either. Don’t play both sides of the fence, either we aren’t allowed to declare our opinions as knowledge, or we are.
good call, OOOOM (doublepostwithinaworditis)
Wolf – I am so sorry you engaged him. Can’t we stop feeding the trolls? I find these dialogues so painful and such a chillul Hashem, bringing so much hatred. I only address you because I know you are above it.
point being?
The public school I work in is closed on those days but I go to work anyway and sit on the steps of the building all day just to make sure people don’t think I was taking off for the goyish holidays. I don’t want it to ruin shidduchim for my kids.
WIY – thanks for that post, you seem very well informed.
iced – YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING!
ready now – talk about exposing yourself (which seems to be rampant problem in some communities), your agenda has always been clear and somewhat narrow. You think you speak ‘truth’ but you are damaging the Torah’s image with your harshness. People with hashkofos such as yours have no business being on the internet outside of minimal usage for parnassa.
There is no reason for YWN not to have posted the verdict, even if they didn’t want to get involved when it was just accusations. Either post about Jews or don’t, don’t join the ranks of those harboring these offenders.
If they stand outside they can hear many of us cheering – that’s one way to know.
MR – sorry about your pain. Glad you are doing well.
dolphina – one person here makes an overly inappropriate and judgemental comment and most people are responding that he is out of line. And your response, “shame on everyone” If you’ll notice I was one of the first posts and I was also asking for it’s closure. Why do you insist on hatefully sweeping everyone into the same boat?
Plonis is right and I am sorry he/she took it back. We are NOT talking about hitting and abusing, we are talking about how much these children are losing out on because of the ban on affection. Do you really think that stopping the good rebbes from touching will stop an abusive rebbe from hitting? Why are you dragging that conversation in here anyway? WIY has a very good reason to want his children’s rebbeim to keep their distance. I understand his point but that does NOT make it in the child’s best interest. I work with many children who would not be suffering as much if they could have an arm on their shoulder or a gentle squeeze to their hands. Yes, they are losing. Whether or not you feel it is necessary does not negate that, and abuse is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TOPIC.
I do remember you leaving but have retained no memories. I post/read very selectively myself. I hope your comment about debating wasn’t in answer to me, I hadn’t intended debate, I could use your advice but don’t want to hijack this thread anymore than I am already doing with this post.
(sorry WOW for the diversion
I understand. My point was that that wasn’t even on the radar of this discussion. Don’t worry, not only am I keeping up on the trial, I would be in the front row if I was local.
And btw, thank you for a respectful answer. Not everyone is so inclined to do so.
Thanks for the tips – making my first batch today.
This thread was about Rebbes being affectionate with children. Someone said the affection can sometimes be inappropriate so it should be banned. Others said that the affection is not always abusive and that the kids need it. Then zdad asks if we think abuse is beneficial.
I know you have issues with the yeshivish community (in almost every conceivable way) and have particular issues with the way abusers are protected, to which I join your plight whole heartedly. But none of us where talking about that here.
aries – are you still available online somewhere? Not that you can give that info out here . . .
147 – you have obviously never worked with children with autism.
I have never heard of a PDD classroom since most PDD kids are mainstreamed where I come from. There are many autism classrooms though and although I cannot speak for this scenario, and I don’t even know if there was such a scenario, I have been in many situations that sound exactly as described and the reason the chair is pulled away and the shoes are taken off is because they are being hurled into peoples abdomens. They get them back when they are back in control.
Don’t be so quick to assume you have a clue. Most one sided stories are one sided.
WIY – I think it is pretty obvious that he does not advocate for ANY types of abuse.
If I lived in NY I might not want the teachers touching my kids either but I think you are wrong in saying it is not needed or necessary. Whether or not you trust anyone anymore is a separate issue from what is healthy and good for the kids. It would be healthy and good for my kids to be able to ride their bikes around the neighborhood with friends. I don’t believe it is safe so I do not allow it. That doesn’t mean it isn’t healthy and good. It just means it isn’t an option.
+1 (except the lap part, but I do agree with you)
Oh MODS – when I said we should NOT do this thread, I didn’t just mean my post!! Please, this is going to get nastier!
maybe he is trying to let you know that underneath it all he really does love you and wants you to be happy.
In my house my daughter wanted to light because she would have been the only one who wasn’t. Now that she is older, I think she feels funny lighting because many of her friends don’t, but that is what our Rav paskened and that works for us.
yenta – Sometimes I, too, think Chanuka has been trivialized (it’s become the holiday of toys) but I try hard to make sure the candle lighting isn’t. Think about the fact that your mitzvah of lighting is to publicize the mitzvah and any secular Jew who passes by your house may be taken in by the beautiful lights of your menorah. Even if he has a momentary wish for a better connection, it is still in your zchus. And that isn’t such a farfetched possibility.
yitay – HI!!!!
Well Informed Post
Health – I think you ask a good question. It reminds me that things are not quite obvious or self explanatory. If you look into what it means to be married to someone with an internet addiction, you may be able to answer your own question. As I have learned from my community work, most of it CANNOT and SHOULD NOT be explained on this forum, and much of it has to do with what the husbands would like their wives to do about the new things they have learned.
mythoughts and interjection – Great answers!
always – it’s always nice to hear from you. I really think you should go to guardyoureyes.com. You will read some stuff from others in your shoes, read from men who were in your ex’s shoes, and there is a forum for posting privately with other wives. I think this is definitely not the place where you will get a lot of answers.
BaalHabooze – I think you were actually the friend of his with whom he had that conversation. Maybe you owe him an apology.
By me it isn’t at all about those conversation not being important, it is about how many over the top, sleep deprived, crisis filled moments I have in the subsequent hours that pushes the conversation to the way back, long time ago.
JHF – I vaguely remember having a thread where people wrote what they thought a poster looked like or what their Real Life personality was like. It was fun, maybe it can be revisited with this new crowd.
Also, I was already a bit of an old timer when I was young so I am trying to grow up to be a young one.
aries2756 – I’m sorry if you thought I was implying that you recommended they should do so. I thought I was clearer. Though they may be asked to write a letter from their hearts expressing the pain they have been put through, some people are likely to just spew hatred to any frum person in their wake. Not cuz they were asked to, just because that is all they have the strength/self awareness for.
WOW – Hashem should give you strength. And Baruch Hashem your husband is being joined with you in this mission. Hatzlacha.
I don’t know why I always assumed you were male. Maybe I assume everyone is til I hear otherwise.
I’m not sure if writing a hate filled letter to someone who was not involved in their pain has the same therapeutic value as a letter that ‘speaks from the heart and targets their pain anger and frustration’ being sent to the right party.
As you see from peoples posts, some people are just angry and hateful. They may have good reason to feel that way but they are still at the spewing stage. If the kids are ready to bare their angry hearts, they should do so, but why encourage writing hate filled letters to an unrelated subject, or transposing their anger from one abuser to another.
This man should definitely pay for his abuse, and I don’t get how anyone in the community could dare interfere, but I hear our own personal anger toward other types of abusers being projected here and for WOW’s sake we need to be clearer.
ready now – I think that when abuse charges are first made we may be unsure if they occurred or not. WHILE I am in the mode of “not knowing the facts” or “not being 100% certain” I am welcome to refrain from assuming guilt but I would have NOOOOOO business running fundraisers and crying innocent. NOT ONE person, aside of the abused, knows for certain that this molester DID NOT do what he is accused of. They have less PROOF of his innocence than there is “proof” of his guilt. They are jumping on bandwagons and should be ashamed of themselves. And any of them who are privy to information that they are sitting on, I am comforted knowing Hashem is Just.
I don’t think everyone listens to PBA or anyone else. There are a few old timers who know and respond to each other, sometimes drawing a crowd, and sometimes not. I think many people feel exactly as you feel (I know it’s been posted before) but that’s because most people who read your post, and responded to the live person in the room with them, didn’t respond online.
If your son is saying you didn’t do anything, that is exactly what I was referring to when I said that some kids are not as ruined by what was done to them, as by what the reaction of their “protectors” are. I cannot tell you if calling the police is the answer, though the fact that he knocked him down would make that decision easier for me, but my point was that regardless what someone ELSE does to your son, the part that impacts their future, is whether or not they feel they were defended. Even when they are delusional about what they consider being defended. A different kid may have thought confronting the man was more than adequate defense. If this kid doesn’t, that NEEDS to be dealt with so he can have that peace.
Also, I know lots of doctors, psychologists, teachers, managers etc who stink at their jobs even though they are high ranking. There are those in our Torah world as well. They cover themselves in their learning but they don’t internalize it. It is not just Rabbi’s who do this, it is in every aspect of life.
WOW – I hear what you are saying and I don’t mean that the pain isn’t intense, but your reaction will have a lot to do with whether or not your son is angry at an idiot, or at a religious idiot. His actions may still be wrong and hurtful, but it was made obvious that he did not represent Torah. It may not be the case for your son, but I have seen this differentiation make an impact.
Wolf – that’s awesome. All my children are type 0 and I have been telling them for years how important it is that they give blood when they are old enough. I hope they join the ranks of those who donate.
WOW- What a lousy story. And you are right that people do push the kids away but I think there is another half to that story. Those people are not the majority and they are idiots. What often pushes the kids away (from what I personally have been told) is the response others have to those idiots. For example, when a teacher batters a kid emotionally and the parents write it off or let it go, telling the child he should be quiet and be respectful, that puts the seal of approval on the teachers behavior. When parents go the route YOU took – being incensed, running to the park to find the man, going to the man’s house and approaching your Rav – you are then giving your child the message that this man is NOT a Torah Jew. This man is an idiot and you will not tolerate this behavior. There are many parents who would NEVER push their kids away, but whom never put in “enough” efforts validating the injustice or preventing them from repeated pain.
SO GOOD FOR YOU! And may this be a zchus for both that son and all your others.
that is the actual price she paid yesterday.
The oils used might not be kosher, and that is just off the top of my head.
It was also off the bottom of my post 🙂