🍫Syag Lchochma

It’s usual helpful, if not courteous, to actually follow and understand a conversation before jumping on people. Above you indicated that you don’t/haven’t. So what’s your real point?

He walked it back

Oh, okay. So you didn’t really mean we should think for ourselves. You meant we should make a decision that had sources that had logical support in your eyes. And when you said we were responsible for deaths following us thinking for ourselves it was only because we didn’t think for ourselves in congruence with your thoughts. Right?

did you even take a moment to internalize what he said to see if it applies in any way before hurling insults back? He mentioned a halacha, he didn’t call you names.

#sameoldstuffjustdifferentthread

When I said that a man who responds that way is not mature and ready for marriage you defended the behavior, disagreed with me, and tried to use chazal to support your opposition.
And this is on the heels of saying that single women complain inappropriately that “they don’t feel anything” because they read too many romance novels.

The conversation was never about resumes or pictures, it was about your crazy belief that an adult male who will not be able to move past a girl not presenting like expected, who will feel cheated, that “It only leads to more failed shidduchim” can still be considered a normal mature man who is ready for marriage.

This was after several derogatory comments, in several threads over several weeks about how women and their attitudes make them not marriage material or ready for marriage.

I was pointing out the inconsistency and imbalance of your views. Not talking about pictures and expectations.

You responded by blindly pretending we were talking about something else.

This is how it always seems to go. You make very definitive, often negative statements about people and when it is pointed out you go completely tangential. I wouldn’t even care except that you are putting down a lot of sincere, decent Jews. And random people that aren’t really paying attention end up thinking it makes sense.

nothing to do with resume photos.

That has nothing to do with what we were talking about. You made senseless statements about men, tried to pretend chazal agreed and then ditched it for a segway. Men who behave as you described are not ready for marriage. Imaginary defenses notwithstanding.

“What’s lame about the way chazal view a chossons impression of the kallah,”

Chazal didn’t say that if the girl didn’t present as promised he would think she was dishonest and be shattered, that was you who said it and then you tried to bring chazal to support it, but it doesn’t.

“You’re lacking subtlety and just saying that it’s fragility, and it shouldn’t be a deal breaker”

Uh, no. I didn’t. I said that a mature adult who is ready for marriage will not respond in the manner you presented. And I stand by it. Changing around the words we wrote to be something chazal said is just you not wanting to ever say you misspoke or accept another opinion.

That is a pretty lame response. Again, you seem to be willing to make contortions to defend men, even ones who see a nice picture and think dishonesty with their being shattered by disappointment, nebach.
Do you know what else makes it hard for men to build a relationship? Not being a mekabel.

Syag, it’s categorically forbidden to marry a woman that a man feels put off by physically; no matter how mature and nurturing he is.

this was never the discussion

You have had lots of damning things to say about single women but you seem to have lots of excusals for men. If a man shows up at a date and the woman does not “match” her picture, he is welcome to be disappointed. If he’s shattered by it, then he isn’t worth much.
After his initial disappointment, he has 2 hours to get to know the woman, find out her personality, learn her strengths. If all he can think about is that she doesn’t match her picture than he is not ready for marriage. Period.

20 years ago we went out without social media. The person called you and said, “she’s beautiful, really wonderful personality, sweet as sugar” etc. Or the male equivilant. and guess what? They usually weren’t. But if you were a grown up mature adult ready to marry, you spent the next hours learning who was sitting in front of you and how beautiful, sweet and wonderful they were. Or weren’t. If your male contemporaries can’t manage that, they are far from capable of having an actual grown up relationship.

Commonsaychel – should I wait for you to call him out or should I just do it?

Amil! You dare post such unscrupulous claims?! You risk the wrath of our myopic friends who cannot allow you to have done something in the past that they cannot allow to exist in the present! I fear for you. My best wishes for your safety.

Wouldn’t it make more sense for that to be the reason if you weren’t engaging in that exact behavior?

I mean if Froggie came on and said that, it would make sense. But to claim you write that for the reasons above doesn’t really hold water.

I said I don’t know but that you have made it very clear that men should not be mixing with women. So if you are going to give over tons of factual data on women then you either are misleading people or not following your own rules.

And by the way, “i didn’t feel anything” is what people say to a third party when they don’t want to tell you what they are thinking. To take it at face value is ridiculous.

ive been involved with enough people enough times to see patterns,
you cannot have been around enough women to speak about them in general terms through anything but third, fourth party hearsay. Unless you are a fake or a hypocrite. I have yet to hear you walk back comments or even reconsider so I don’t expect you to come clean on any errors but can you at least stop talking like a researcher and stop presenting your mere observations/opinions as “common knowledge” and facts?

AAQ – insult? what insult? I was just commenting on your import of secular education. Why would that be insulting?

“syag, something tells me you wouldn’t have a problem with my statement that bochurim need to work on their middos.”

I have no problem with vague generalities that apply to everyone. that is correct.

“but I think it’s common knowledge that bad middos are a major hindrance in finding a shidduch,

common knowledge? really? that is exactly the kind of comment I cannot agree with. I will not make a sweeping negative comment about bochurim, let alone call it “common knowledge”.

Here’s the deal. I keep harping on your comments because I believe you are unintentionally badmouthing jews, communities and presenting yourself as an authority on things. From your years of posts I gathered (not knowing if this is the reality or not) that you are a single male over twenty but closer to thirty (I’m pretty sure you said so yourself but I could be wrong).
Based on that, you give these all knowing comments about women, marriages and what the desires are of women and what they do wrong etc. As a single male, your exposure to women is a sister, aunt, mom and whoever you get redt to. Beyond that it is just hear say and spewing imaginary assumptions.
Hence my complaints about your comments on the failings of these Yidden. It is lashon hora and/or motzei shem rah to speak down on a group of jews. and to label it falsely as “common knmowledge” is sheker. This should concern you more than how many romance novels I have read (probably none. Not my thing).
If you really are an ex MO member who left, as you say, in grammar school after an awful debate issue, then your world wide conclusions are based on a hundred? two hundred? women who probably are mostly locals at that. That’s hardly a statistically sound demographic. And in the requirement to be dan lkaf zchus (by the way) you are obligated to make kinder conclusions, not embellished.

I would be very careful about making general statements off of your very very limited exposure/research. You might be choosing between lashon Hora and motzei shem rah.

“Most people who were not careful put others in danger.”

You call that a basic fact but it has never been substantiated. When you build off a false premise, it’s all false.

No, wait! 🙋‍♀️
Please give me a brocha for growth and hatzlacha.
And I ask Hashem to bentch you with all things good, and koach and chessed and everything.

ladler – exactly the point I was working on.

have you actually witnessed these chareidim sitting around with extra time? Are the chareidim who volunteer, or as you prefer to put it ‘”volunteer” a few hours’ doing it because they are bored and idle? I am just trying to get some clarity on this opinion of yours that I assume from your references you have witnessed first hand on a consistent enough basis to know the players.

“saw from a psychiatrist quoting someone who said something about the Gra.”

Someone who is willing to forfeit the kovod due a talmid chochom in order to put down a peer is really scraping the barrel. These topics seem to be unhealthy for you. And aaq doesn’t back down even when he’s proven wrong anyways so what’s your point.

1 –
I have to say I find the question surprising. I am used to the younger newer posters asking these things but I am not understanding your confusion. Do you really not understand why someone should follow their rav? It’s not such a tough concept to anyone who has parents. Did you have some other purpose in asking? Was this just to try to encourage more machlokes comments? I’m a bit stumped.

You would have to be crazy not to feel safer in Eretz Yisroel.

CS – ha ha, and I took it to imply he was an employee with “backstage” access