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everyone here should read every single one of these articles before they embark on making there kids the gadol hador http://drsorotzkin.com/articles.html#Parenting1
Dude are you crazy? why do u want ur son to be the gadol hador? its parents like you who deystroy Jewish children
Thought I’d add for everyone’s knowledge, the Tur in Orach Chaim- paskens people should go to work after learning in the morning. He quotes this Mishna in Avos as a source. So he also clearly learns Derech Eretz in that context as referring to work. (See the Bach)
Can you give me a reason for why i should follow my rebbe against the majority of the rishonim? (btw the Shulchan Aruch also paskens people should work)
Also I am sorry I came off arrogant, I was simply surprised that people when offering opinions on this subject don’t look at the tradtional sources. Rambam, Rashi & Rabbeinu Yonah are the 3 major commentaries on Avos one finds when they open up any Avos in a set of Shas so I’m offering advice to people that before offering an opinion on something they should look at the sources.
Additionaly I think if you’d ask any Posek or for that matter any person whos learned in yeshiva for a while- whos opinion holds more weight: the Rambam, Rashis, Rabbeinu Yonahs or the 2nd opinion in the Meiri I have no doubt they’ll answer the former
Popa Bar Abba- I dont understand how am I wrong: I quoted the 3 Rishonim- Rashi, Rambam, and Rabbeinu Yonah- at least 2 are probably the most influential Rishonim- as saying to work- then you quote me one of 2 opinions in the Meiri as saying it means middos. I might be missing something but what comes out as the stronger view? 3 of the Gedolei Rishonim or the 2nd opinion in the Meiri?
Sam- this in no way minimizes the importance of Talmud Torah, rather it emphasizes and focuses on the neccesity to have a source of stable income as a way to live a healthy, stable life.
Everyone here I humbly suggest when researching a topic like this always turn to the sources, the Rishonim and go from there. Shkoyach on the discussion
sam4321 my previous post is also intended for you as well. Its a very nice Tosafos Yom Tov but look at what the Rishonim say.
My brother Toi- 2 things: 1. The Rambam is 100% clear in what he says about ‘Derech Eretz’ meaning getting a job as he writes (and please look it up yourlself) “Rotze Lomar Derech Eretz hene HaOsek BiParnasa etc.- CLEAR AS DAY. Its also pretty clear from RASHI that Derech Eretz means Parnasah. Guess who also interpets it like that RABBEINU YONAH- wow! these 3 Gedolei HaRishonim all telling us to work!
The Rambam clearly defines “Yofeh TT im derech eretz” as getting a Job. Look it up in Peirush HaMishnayos. The Rambam knows wat hes talking about no?
Ask a better question: How do they ignore an explicit Psak of the Shulchan Aruch that says you should work after learning in the morning??
yo real israeli
I dont understand why that is a good proof that learning torah is the most important thing. It could just mean that Mordechai knew less because he was involved in other things so the order of the Sanhedrin went by Torah knowledge
also if people want to see reasoning behind the derech halimud of yeshivas today look at the introduction to Rav Gurwicz’s sefer “Rashei Sharim”.
some suggestions: 1) Rav Rudinsky in Yeshivas Ohr Ruven in monsey
2) Rav Shachter or Rav Sacks in YU
-Both these shiurim cover a lot of ground in the masechta be iyun