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Look at how different we Yidden are from the nochrim!
For them, Mother’s Day is an excuse to kick their mothers to the curb on the 364 other days.
For us, Mother’s Day is an excuse to kick our mothers to the curb for only one day – namely Mother’s Day itself.
Mi K’amcha Yisroel! This should go in the “Why Yidden are the Best” thread.
WolfishMusings
Member
Oh well. That’s another rung lower in hell for me. 🙂
The Wolf
How many circles can there be already? I’m only aware of 9. 😀 😀
SJS-
Sounds like a cycle of doom. On the one hand you have the well-educated child who grows up and qualifies for a high-powered job with a good salary. This person will do likewise for his or her children, and be left with $0 after-tax, after-tuition.
On the other hand you have the under-educated inner-yeshivish-city kids who most likely will never command a high enough salary to afford Teaneck, and will live in a community similar to the one they grew up in. This person will send his or her children to a similar school and be left with $0 after-tax, after-tuition, after scholarship.
What’s the advantage?
I believe that this is discussed in SA or MB explicitly. I further believe that what your son said would qualify as counting. I think that “Tonight is x” or “Tonight is y+1” are considered equivalent.
This reminds me of a story (though I’m not sure if this belongs in this thread, the jokes thread, or the pranks thread). On the second night of Pesach during Maariv, one fellow walks over to his friend and asks, “Can you be moitzie me with the bracha for sefira? I missed a night.” His friends asks with surprise, “How could you have missed a night? Tonight is the first night!” At which the first fellow beams and replies, “Now I will be moitzie YOU with the bracha!”
SJS
My comment was directed at those who feel there is a communal obligation to keep the schools afloat. My take is that the community may or may not have the obligation to provide Torah education, but stop there. Anything else is the whim of the parent body and must be paid for by them.
I don’t know the statistics of it, but it seems to me that a very high percentage of children are receiving “special” education.
Is there any reason why we are still calling this “special education” instead of just training our mainstream teachers in these methods? It seems we are creating twice as many educators as we need.
volvie,
You are playing two sides of the argument without realizing it. If some of the Rambam’s Torah positions were corrupted due to the influence of his secular surroundings, he could not have been infallible in Torah. Thus, a fortiori he could not have been infallible in matters of science.
To be clear – regarding the issue of Mother’s Day I was responding from the perspective of those against observing. I merely stated that there is no similar day of observation in our religion (Shavuos, Y”K, and the like being commandments themselves and not merely a day to stress observance of a particular commandment).
That said, I fail to see why that should deter any of us from observing MD. If for no other reason, do it so that “we” are no less involved in showing respect for our parents than “they” on ANY day of the year. There is surely no call to specifically avoid calling your mother on MD. And while on the subject, another day of the year stands out – YOUR BIRTHDAY – as a day to call and thank your mother for giving you life.
ROB – While volvie and perhaps others will claim that Chazal’s infallibility is a tradition inherited from earlier generations, I preempted this by saying “latter day yeshiva movement”.
Wolf-
I will step in to point out that the comparison to Tisha B’av is not a good one. In this point, volvie is correct in saying that yiddin do not have a “singled out” day for demonstration of X. The closest we do have is Tisha B’av and the 3 Weeks. Chazal recognized that it would not be healthy for us to be in constant state of mourning throughout the year and therefore designated a small period of time during which to express mourning (and many hold that they also confined all future communal mourning to be observed during this period). They established a specific day (or weeks, as it were) only to limit our mourning to a healthy amount of time. The same could not be said for singling out one day over another for positive expression, such as kibbud av v’em.
That aside, I do agree with cherrybim who said that if your mother expects something on the day then that is your chiyyuv of kibbud em for the day 🙂
On the subject of Chazal/Science, it has already been established here over and over again that there are two camps. One camp, of the latter day yeshiva movement believes in the infallibility of Chazal in all matters of knowledge. The other camp believes (as expressed clearly by R’ Hirsch in the introduction to Horeb) that Chazal were experts in Torah and in addition were on par with science experts of their time (i.e. not infallible in that regard). Neither camp will be convinced to change its views since both obtained said view from their own halachic sources. In that, it is no different than the eruv debate, or the question of the kashrus of bugs in the water. Hence, the debate here is pointless.
Regarding medical treatments found in the gemara – we are expressly forbidden to use them these days (except for one – fish bone stuck) precisely because they may not work today. Again, why they may not work would be explained differently by the two camps.
enlightenedjew (why would you call yourself a haskala yid?)-
Then let the schools abandon all the frills and their associated costs before placing the burden on the general public. Don’t tax me and then spend the money on smartboards and electron microscopes. I’ll pay for your walls, your rebbeim and teachers in reasonable proportion to student population, books and nothing else. A couple of thousand per child would do it easily.
As many have said, Torah education is not a luxury but a necessity. And let’s face it, most frum families could not give a proper Torah education on their own – they need a well run school.
However, what is a luxury is a Torah education at a frills-laden school such as our present day Yeshivos Ktana, Bais Yaacovs, Mesivtas, etc. When I went to school (which, if you recall my old posts, was when Arnold Fine was in diapers) a Torah school was a building with a mainstream curriculum and hardly a frill to be found. A science lab was a room with a sink and a gas hookup for bunsen burners.
It is wonderful that the present day schools have multiple curriculum tracks, resource rooms, cutting edge technology, and myriads of other educational frills. It is wonderful that the buildings are air-conditioned to 5 degrees below what the kids’ parents keep their own homes. All this is wonderful – but it is a large part of why yeshivos are unaffordable.
I am a strong believer that if you can’t afford it, it’s not worth having. And the yeshivos (read: parent body) cannot afford the frills.
Y.W. Editor
Key Master
FLASHBACK June 7/2007: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=7439
Cute of you to “clean up” the comments first.
The slowness of this site is really unfortunate. First time in months I had a chance to visit here and I can’t open a thread without a 2-3 minute delay. I see from reading other posts that the problem is not on my end but on the server’s. Is this intentional?
WolfishMusings
Member
Heh, if only. My mother has never been on-line in her life.
Besides, I don’t call my mother “Mommy.” She’s been “Mom” for a looooooong time.
The Wolf
Wolf, dear, is that you?
I see 2222 now. Why do you mention it?
Did someone say “new generation”? That’s me! I should call myself squeak 2.0
d a
Good idea. Many of those who did regretted it.
AZ, I’ve seen some quality trolling in my time – hey, I’ve even done some myself. But you take the cake. Not in terms of quality, per se, but in stakes. Who else takes advantage of a topic like shidduch crisis and uses it to aggravate and frustrate so many people?
You say you have a LIFE – why don’t you go back to it? Now.
Everyone else: Don’t feed the troll.
anon, how about this one (should be close enough)
What’s the difference between an engineer and G-d?
G-d does not think He is an engineer.
The title asked for a recipe for extra challah, and I have one. Glad to help, though culinary arts are not normally my forte.
Directions:
1) Follow your normal challah recipe.
2) Add 1 extra cup of salt per pound of dough.
3) Bake.
Guaranteed to leave you with plenty of extra challah.
Come on AZ, say what you really mean. Why bandy about with mild terms like AGUNOS and AKAROS? Just get it over with and call them MEISIM. After all, isn’t an akara comparable to a meis? You are doing them no service by understating their predicament.
Who wants to help the HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of MEISIM? End the shidduch crisis – marry a meis!
To put things in perspective – even if the details are true they are insignificant. The rotational speed of the Earth is variable. If this same earthquake happened 1 million more times, we would need to add one negative leap second once per year. Currently we already add around 6/10 of a positive leap second per year (and one would offset the other).
The impact of this event is infinitesimal at the astronomical level; I’m not sure why it is having a greater impact at the blogging level. This branch of science is almost never really exciting, despite attempts to hype it.
Wolf:
The internet is a wonderful resource, and as you have noted, Google is your friend. The specific mishna brura discussed here can be located in pdf form at this address http://www.hebrewbooks.org/14164 (and I’m sure at many others as well). As a result of the wonderful tool known as the internet you never again need to say that you do not have a MB handy.
As you have correctly concluded, the Chofetz Chaim is saying that it is a genai for a woman to be m’vareich al hakos. He leaves ambiguous exactly what is genai about it.
From what I’ve heard, the crunchy bugs are good and the small ones are the best.
hereorthere: Listen to oomis.
There is indeed a shailoh whether or not one may marry a ba’al tshuva, because of the ‘ben nidda’ suspicion. However – Rav Moshe Feinstein wrote in a Tshuva (responsa) to this question that the shortcoming of a ‘ben nidda’ would be apparent in the person’s middos. Hence, a ba’al tshuva who has fine middos is clearly not a ‘ben nidda’ and his middos prove that through some means his mother must have done t’vilah, albeit unknowingly (e.g. a swimming pool).
Is the inverse also true, i.e. does an FFB with bad middos prove that his lineage is flawed? Rav Moshe does not say so, but as we know from Pirkei Avos/Mussar sefarim – a person with Torah learning/fine middos is a better person in the eyes of G-d and His people than a person without Torah learning/fine middos, regardless of his lineage.
Go find people with good middos and live among them instead.
AZ
I will explain this once. On the off chance that you actually read it and comprehend what I am saying, it might help explain some things that are clearly bothering you.
Fact: The current accepted structure for compensating a shadchan is similar to a broker. The shadchan, like a broker, receives a ‘commission’ upon completion of the ‘transaction’ (i.e. the engagement/marriage). If the transaction falls apart, no commission.
This is a form of incentive compensation, i.e. compensation that is tied to performance. This form of compensation works extremely well – as evidenced by the number of people who choose to make a living as a broker. The hope of achieving a commission motivates the third-party to help out. Many shadchanim have altruistic motives in addition to the hope of receiving incentive compensation, which is wonderful too.
Fact: There is another form of compensation. It is called fee-for-service. This is a popular form of compensation in relationships between financial advisors and their wealthy clients.
The logic is that rather than have the advisor be swayed by the oodles of money the client has and figuring out what advice will return the highest commissions, the advisor knows eaxctly how much money he/she will get regardless of outcome and will provide the best advice for the client.
Both forms are valid incentives. The current system works under the former method. You have every right to suggest UPROOTING the entire system in favor of the latter method, but you’re going to have to come up with a good reason why. What you are saying (that it is not a valid method of incentive) is simply na’arishkeit.
AZ
How much did you pay for your life? Clearly, nothing. QED
bomber-mentsch:
Vuz vilst du fun mir? Ich hut gelernt yiddish een a “convent”, und a bissel fun zeine “mama loshon” iz gemished.
80- vart far BP Totty tzu zein metargem far ir.
BP Totty: ich gedenk az der maskana fun der letzte yiddish schmooze du iz geven azoi: iz dor nischt ken “off-color” verte in yiddish – ken nischt zein – val yiddish iz a loshon kodosh. Alle yiddishe sprach iz b’etzem kosher und noch mer fun dem. Ergo, men darf nischt habben a “moderator” du in di “thread”.
Zug tzu 80.
The gemara in Peschim says that a Levi taking maaser from produce is pritzus. Maaser is to be given.
The baal habayis has an exercisable right with maaser (and terumah) to give it to whom he wishes. This option is considered to have actual value in halacha – hence taking the option away is akin to stealing (though it may be less than the value of a perutah).
The funny thing about these cases are that they take an 8 month who is not crawling, and after two months of therapy – presto! you have a 10 month old that crawls! Thank G-d for therapists!
If your child is 8 YEARS old and doesn’t crawl, that’s also good.
Speak for yourself 🙂
I didn’t do it – you did.
…and just like that, poof!
01 – the new mod does post. You just have to know the handle.
jphone, you’ve already made that comment once. It was one of the first posts nominated for “post of the year”.
Most common frum first name: For men – Rabbi, for women – Rebetzin.
SJSinNYC
Member
I call my husband Jose all the time! His name is Joseph.
YIIIIIIIIIIKES!!!!!!!!
Say it ain’t so, Joe
cherrybim: Sorry, olam hafuch hu.
Joseph – Healthcare rationing goes on all the time, even now, in the US. You just may not realize it. Think about organ donation – there’s rationing. Think about what it takes to get a top doctor ($$$) – there’s rationing (the top docs only see those who can pay top rates, everyone else has to see second-rate or lower). The only thing that will change in terms of rationing is HOW the rationing will be meted out. Currently, it is based on a “bakery line number” in the case of organs, and $$$ for everything else.
R’ Itzik – the case that you describe with insurance companies offering bare-bones policies that just cover government requirements is nearly prophetic. I say ‘nearly’ only because it has already happened. If you are interested in seeing a case-in-point, look no farther than the state of Massachusetts. Start with when the state required every employer to provide health insurance to all employees, and follow the story to where insurance companies cut their coverages to the minimum requirement, to where those bare bones policies now dominate the insurance market to the point where policies with rich benefits almost do not exist in that state. This state is a microcosm of the US after this clause of the Healthcare Reform is passed.
You people are unbelievable. Just stop already. You can do your pithy analysis once the last survivor is gone. Maybe then will you be able to feign authority. I dare any one of you to speak this to my face – one of us would not survive the encounter.
I also would stop short of saying that only a prophet knew. But hard as it may be to believe, the situation was not as obvious then as it is in hindsight. Yes – it was known that the Nazis were in power, but the worst that was expected was another ‘Great War’. ROB, you were not around to know what was going on in the minds of people living in Europe and America in the 40’s. Communication technology was not much to speak of, and while the war machine was running it was even less. War is always dangerous for civilians, but no one ever thought that civilians would be the target of the war. Even of those who did flee, most did it because they feared ‘collateral damage’, i.e. plundering and raiding or pogrom-like anti-semitism – not because they foresaw the Holocaust.
I doubt you will believe my word alone – so confirm it with anyone you please. Anyone who was around to remember. If you read ‘Night’ by Elie Weisel, he describes how the warnings of the Beadle who escaped from Poland to Transylvania were mocked and ignored by the Hungarian townspeople. The general populace simply did not believe there was a Holocaust going on, until it came to their town. I am sure there are other examples of similar denials that are documented. The Jews of Europe unfortunately found out how wrong their estimation was. The Jews of America found out only after the war, and were ridden with guilt and self-flaggelation for underestimating the level of horror.
Not one of you is in a position to judge. So if you feel like passing judgment, do so in the confines of your living room, where you and your children can discuss this ‘ancient history’ like all scholars do – i.e. second-hand, and with the benefit of hindsight. Not here, where your armchair politics can be seen by me. Judge the Nazis if you please.
hiijacker – easy one. The king himself is putting on the hats? In that case, the first prisoner says, “My hat could be black or it could be white. I don’t know and I don’t care because what really matters is THIS MACE THAT I’VE BEEN HOLDING BEHIND MY BACK”. After that, all the prisoners are free to go.
One Thousand, Seven Hundred and Eighty Four Billion Trillion Dollars
Click on it. The World’s first Billion Trillionaire.
Joseph, perhaps you think that I am missing the point, but I believe otherwise.
I think that it was the cautious familiarity between Jewish men and women (which was the norm) that enabled them to interact with one another in a permitted way. It is precisely because now men and women are kept so far apart that they have no idea how to interact with each other when happenstance brings them together.
I am not encouraging frum people to let their boys and girls mingle so that they will know how to deal with members of the opposite gender. I am saying that once separations are so rigidly enforced, those separations must be enforced for life or they will act like teenagers no matter what age they are, no matter what their marital status.
It is precisely because young men and women DID have interaction with one another in your grandparents’ time (with properly established boundaries, but less rigid, of course) that they had a realistic understanding of the opposite gender and were able to act appropriately.
Correction – see 99b for exact quote I was referring to.
SJS, I hope that’s a good thing!
Oh, that’s right – Spokesman.
We wouldn’t want to have taaruvos at a demonstration – that would be worse than a shabbos meal 😉