SpiceofLife

Randomex +1.

I wanted to ask exactly the same question & comment.

I actually first guessed a younger age, but then was worried that if I’m wrong, you’d take offense at being thought of as younger than you are, so decided to err on the side of caution…

Considering for now neither Bywater Street nor America, but thanks anyway.

What’s special about that street that’s so spooky? Excuse my ignorance…..

I’m not bored as in ‘lot more to do’… We just want to be part of a warm kehilla where chinuch isn’t too challenging & not too much emphasis on gashmiyus… and and and…

Maybe da’as torah will tell us to stay put.. then we’ll have to find somewhere cooler in the HolyLand… any suggestions?

How do you know that all of your community did nothing?

And if so, why announce that to e/o?

My daughter was just telling me something really original sounding by the Ramchal that they’re learning this year (in Israeli seminar). She says they learn it in all the (Israeli) sems, but I’d never heard of it till now.

The sefer is called: “La’yesharim tehilla”

She was telling me all about it, & it definitely was different than the standard style. I’ve not yet had a chance to see it. (She herself hasn’t yet bought one).

I don’t know what kind of thing you’re looking for.

By the way, as a ‘lurker’ for a good while, I enjoyed many of your posts writersoul.

Gutt voch.

Seforim by Rav Shimshon Pincus ztz”l of Ofakim.

Rav Chaim Freedlander’s Sifsei Chaim. But that might be similar to category of ones like Sichos Mussar, which you’re not sure is the kind of thing you’d want right now.

I also enjoyed Rabbi Tatz’s.

Aha.

Don’t know why the ‘penny didn’t drop’ earlier…

They’re a really nice family, but that doesn’t make me agree with everything he writes.

Talking of leaflets & pamphlets on this topic, Rabbi Ephraim Luft of Bnei Brak (from Australia/England) is big into this subject, & I think has put out some material about it.

Being commanded by Hashem to go & fight, is a little different than getting a draft notice from a secular government (disgusting pictures & all. Yes, I had to hide away the booklet which came with my daugher’s draft notice b/c it’s graphic content was so unsavory, to put it mildly)

What we learn from Dovid Hamelech is not how to be a great warrior, but how to do ratzon Hashem. If that includes being a warrior, fine. If not, not.

Now, will come a mabul of opinions, saying that such & such a rav/posek, says it is a chiyuv/mitzva even nowadays to serve in the army, da da da….

I’ve just reread The Goq’s comment, & I see he mentions job, not army.

But still same concept… doing what Hashem wants. Working out what that is, well that’s another story. Many of the very esteemed members of the coffee room, no doubt already know what G-d’s will is. For those of us less clear, like myself, we have Gedolei Yisroel & rabbonim to advise us.

Good title Goq! Very intriguing.. & funny too!

Popa, you asked how do I know it’s a myth?

I’ve thought about this, but not sure how to answer. One thing I am sure is that I’m sure.

Begins even with little things: Once went to PTA, & they report about my angelic daughter,teacher’s dream etc.. & of course add on that they can see what a good home she comes from, so well brought up, da da da. On same day, my (then) very mischievous 2 1/2 year old did some climbing, while I tried to stop him, & s/o yelled at me “You don’t teach your kids how to behave?!!”… That amazing girl & ‘terrible’ boy brought up by same parents, I got misplaced credit for 1 (she was a natural ‘gutta’) & misplaced criticism for the other (he was a ball of mischief & I was doing way more than the average mother to ‘educate’ him)….(He got past that age & became really easy B”H).

If it was only with little ones, wouldn’t be such a big deal. But I’ve seen with plenty of teenagers (B”H not my own). After parents did amazing job, giving gallons of love, gentle discipline, excellent sholom bayis loads of tefillos…& still something goes wrong eg. kid goes off derech, or eg. kid becomes mentally ill… Not enough the deep heartache? No, on top of that, they need society smugly judging them too…. “Oh, parents were too strict” “Parents were too relaxed & didn’t give enough discipline” “Something weird in that house” “That boy is violent.. his father must be like that too behind closed doors” “Kid had nervous breakdown b/c parents pressured him too much” etc etc.

Of course, if parents are doing things wrong eg. being abusive, eg. not providing enough love, eg.arguing with their spouse a lot… then yes, it impacts kids very badly. But not every case of kids having issues is b/c of parents.

Surely parents see with their own kids, how some are just born with easygoing natures, & without doing much, they’re happy & polite & easy to raise. And others are born into same home, & somehow every time there’s a fight, they’re there. Every time s/o’s crying, they’re around… always causing trouble. Parents work very hard trying to tame & gently encourage the difficult child.

(This ‘difficult child’ phenomenon isn’t something fixed. Often the one who was an angel at age 5, can be a difficult teen, & the one who wrecks everything as a 2 year old, can be a really sunny 12 year old…)

There’s genetics (the nature as opposed to nurture), friends, neighbors, teachers, rebbis, reading material, internet, & the child/teen himself who (as I already said) has his own bechira… So many factors involved.

Of course if we parents do our best, give loads of love & understanding, make our homes a very happy place, are emotionally in tune with kids, provide gentle discipline, have good sholom bayis (this also is not always in parents’ hands), daven, build the kids self esteem up, and we ourselves serve as a good example, then yes, we’re giving our kids a much better chance at turning out right…

Sorry I don’t have ways to prove my ‘myth’ theory. I’m not an official survey taker so I don’t have hard data. But I’ve met loads of people & read a lot on this topic over the last 20 years, & I’m sure of my opinion.

You, & a/o else reading this, can take it or leave it. But even those who completely disagree, would still agree that parents aren’t always the guilty party. Even Barry above (whom Popa agrees with) used the words ‘most of the time’ & not ‘all the time’. So don’t be quick to judge when you see a kid/teen/adult off the derech/mentally ill/behaving badly etc. His/her parents are in enough pain as it is, & maybe they’re the ones not in the ‘most’ category, but in the other few.

There’s plenty of parents who do lots wrong, & their kids turn out fine, or better than fine, & vice versa too.

Look how Rifka Imeinu turned out after the house of Besuel, & Rochel after the house of Lavan. Look how Yishmael came from Avrohom & Eisav came from Yitzchok… (Of course you can find meforshim who put some slight blame on parents even there in various ways, but doesn’t change the big picture). No-one has any guarantees with their kids.

Sorry, going on so long, but another thing I wanted to mention, is, it also depends where one is coming from. If we’re looking as a child at our parents, we need to have one kinds of perspective (as forgiving, understanding & appreciative as we can manage, unless they did things really wrong. We need to understand that there’s more than one way to show love, that they did their best, that we don’t know all the issues they had to grapple with…). If we’re looking at ourselves as parents, then we need to hold ourselves to a very high standard & do our best to improve, by reading, getting advice, assessing things regularly, by working hard on ourselves, etc.

May bringing up kids go easily & well for e/o, but let us not be so proud & smug as to give ourselves all the credit. Yes, we can pat ourselves on the back for trying our best & doing a good job, but know that it’s only hishtadlus. We need to thank Hashem for kids that turn out right.

Sorry such a megilla.

Thanks notasheep.

What you wrote about mossdos Internet policy, is as I’d assumed.

Thanks for housing info too.

Thanks crazybrit. Yes, the numbers don’t sound exciting. But those mentioned were the starting rates. I guess many get quite abit more.

A gutt shabbos to all.

To SDD, not checked what your time zone is, but I’m in the Holy-Land as I’ve mentioned on a different thread, & now it is 10:50 pm. Late enough to warrant sympathy? Actually sympathy isn’t what I’m after. No complaints. I just enjoy seeing the funny side of life. Keeps us sane…

Layla tov, or ‘tzaharayim tovim’ depending where you are…

but…, all the best to you too. Thanks for your warm wishes. Inspiring to see your ahavas ha’aretz.

Crazybrit, nothing more to add? Any helpful comments about Manchester or Gateshead?

No other Brits out there?

notasheep, thanks for all info. Even though going rates vary greatly as you said, do you know what the range is, lowest to highest, whether for ‘kinder’ or anything else.

What’s the story with housing (buying) in Gateshead? I once heard years ago about some rules there (waiting list?), but don’t remember what exactly?

Thanks e/o.

This doesn’t answer your question, but if it’s any comfort, IMHO how much a kid does or doesn’t listen when younger, doesn’t seem to have much bearing on how they’ll turn out later on. Seemingly defiant kids can grow up to give much nachas, & kids who seem easy & obedient… well don’t forget to daven for them too.

I know someone whose kid went off the derech, & the mother says, “I never had any bother with her…I don’t know what happened. She was always such a pleasure”.

Each is born with their own nature, & we just try our best & daven.

Seems to me, that if a kid has a tendency to defiance, it means that being obedient is difficult for him/her, & parents need to learn techniques for handling the situation.

I once heard an amazing shiur from Rav Yechiel Yakovson (chinuch expert), & he said parents should try to give kids as few orders/demands as poss, but what that they do give, they should insist on (at least one thing a day). The thrust of the whole shiur was about kids needing to be obedient for themselves, for their emotional health, not as we may mistakenly think to eg. enable smooth functioning of home…

Don’t have time to post more right now.

We’re more the Tashbar (or similar) type than Jewish Day. Our kids simply wouldn’t fit in to Jewish day crowd (even though I’m sure they’re all very nice families). Places like Tashbar, I think are always full up/hard to get into (although we didn’t yet try).

What about job as high-school teacher (in Gateshead)?

And what’s the going rate for teachers in either Manchester or Gateshead nowadays?

Thanks.

Thanks seventh. For now, London is not on our list of options, so no need for info on that. Nice of you to offer.

I’m interested in info on all topics that could be relevant, not only about schools. Maybe ‘notasheep’ has more to add? (If you’re around & have time)

Apart from general info on Manchester & Gatehead, what can people tell me about the transition (from E. Yisroel to chutz la’aretz) in general, tips, experience etc.

The earliest we’d think of going is a couple of months after next Pesach.

Bump