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  • in reply to: Making Aliyah #787894

    A few more points

    Sacrilege – I’m sorry to keep rebutting your points; it’s nothing personal or perhaps it’s because you make good points that press all my sensitive buttons. Yes, it IS very difficult to keep proper kibud av v’em from far away. Regarding your point about making kids suffer, people had asked “What are we doing TO our kids” whereas we felt we are doing this FOR our kids. Yes there were hardships in many senses – financial, religious, educational, and the results have been mixed – but we don’t know what the results would have been had we stayed in the US – we left just before the OTD phenomenon really took off in the US. The move in general and the specific difficulties in general do present a challenge for kids who move here. In the end, some of our kids definitely turned out stronger in frumkeit and educationally than they would have been in the US. Some came here at too early an age to know how they would have been had we stayed there. But I think that part of the problem is that if parents come here with an attitude of expecting suffering instead of stressing the zechus of being here and all the positive things, that definitely gets picked up by the kids. We did not come with a Zionist perspective but to be honest I somewhat envied other people who came here with that perspective, because it was easier for them to fit in – they didn’t have to change to fit into society the way the American yeshivish people have to change to fit into Israeli Chareidi society. Also, because the chareidi schools are very anti the general society, the kids who come from the US and enter the schools wonder, “If it’s so bad, why did my family bring me here?” Which is a valid question on their part. It is a challenge to help them see the positive parts of Eretz Yisrael even though it is not yet in its perfected state (I don’t mean State but state as in condition)when Moshiach will come.

    Gavra – thanks for bringing the direct quote

    SJS – you hit the nail on the head with your description of us not exactly fitting in. I think part of the problem is that in the U.S., especially out of town, the schools are more heterogeneous so there will always be some people a little more to the right and some a little more to the left but overall everyone more or less fits in and is comfortable with themselves in the broader group and with the other people in the group. But davka the large number of schools to choose from (if they will accept you) makes each group more narrow and therefore it is hard to fit in 100% in any particular school; the best choice might be about 20% off of where you are holding and that 20% can make you stick out like a sore thumb.

    Saftala- I think if we would know each other we would be good friends. Getting back to answer your original question, I’d like to give a more philosophical answer. When we first raised the question of moving to Eretz Yisrael with our Rav in the U.S., he mentioned the concept of some people being Bnei Eretz Yisrael and some are Bnei Chutz La’aretz. He explained that some people’s neshamos have a need to be in Eretz Yisrael or else they do not feel spiritual fulfillment. Others find their spiritual fulfillment in Chutz Laaretz because their neshamos are Bnei Chutz Laaretz. I have often wondered, do I deserve special credit for wanting to come and being determined enough to make it work despite all the challenges, or is it total help from Hashem. Am I better than others because I wanted to come, or not. I have many friends who I would describe as much frummer than me and yet they are not here and do not have a strong desire theoretically or practically to be here. I think that our Rav’s explanation helps explain why I am here and others are not and can help me understand others without feeling superior to them. I think that because I have a neshama that is connected to Eretz Yisrael, Hashem put the will into my mind and heart, and the determination and willingness to come here and endure all the challenges and actually love it. I am not claiming credit for this, but I am grateful that Hashem has put me into this category. I think, Saftala, that those with this type of neshama want to come here, while those who weren’t given this, do not. It’s very hard for the two types of neshamos to relate to each other, because the chutz la’aretz neshamos think we’re a little crazy, and the Eretz Yisrael neshamos think the chutz la’aretz neshamos are missing some key elements (unless we just accept each other with our different make-up, tafkid, etc.). I guess the bottom line is that we have to analyze ourselves to see what type of neshama we have, what do the other members of our family have (i.e., is Eretz Yisrael compatible with their neshama/emotional make-up),and not be judgmental of people who are of the other type.

    in reply to: Making Aliyah #787889

    I want to make a few more points.

    Sacrilege – you don’t think that the unwillingness to leave family/friends is a reflection of immaturity. Perhaps I labeled it too quickly but I think it is due to either immaturity or inflexibility/being set in one’s ways and afraid of change. The Torah tells us that a man has to leave his father and mother when he gets married and cling to his wife. Some people are afraid to move further than around the corner from their parents. Part of the maturity that is necessary to get married means leaving one’s parents, as terrible as that sounds. I don’t mean to abandon them. I have many friends who made aliya and whose parents eventually followed them. I don’t mean to leave behind a sick, elderly dying parent, but if a couple makes aliya when their parents are still in good health, they can certainly join their children there. My mother-in-law came in her late 60s; I know people who came in their 80s and even 90s. On the other hand, I think that some people don’t want to leave their parents, relatives, friends, etc. because they are simply too set in their ways – almost like over the hill, “overmature” rather than immature. Familiarity is too comfortable for them. Even if their situations aren’t so comfortable, the familiar known is less threatening than the unknown.

    Another important point to think about – since I’m female and don’t learn Gemara I can’t quote you Masechta and daf, but there is a famous Gemara that says that three things are acquired only through yisurim – Torah, Eretz Yisrael and Olam Haba (I don’t know if they are listed in this order). Everyone always quotes this gemara as an excuse not to move to Eretz Yisrael because it is acquired through yisurim. Well, let me ask you all to think about this honestly – don’t we try our best to observe/learn Torah and to do mitzvos to acquire Olam Haba, even though the Gemara says they are acquired through yisurim? Why are we only afraid of the yisurim of Eretz Yisrael and not the yisurim involved in acquiring Torah and Olam Haba? Why do we seem to view Torah and Olam Haba as obligatory, despite the yisurim, and Eretz Yisrael as optional?

    in reply to: Making Aliyah #787873

    We made aliya almost 15 years ago. We are very happy that we made the move; we feel that every moment has much more meaning and religious significance, even the mundane things. We had many bumps along the way but have never regretted the move.

    But based on the flack we got from others before and after the move, as well as circumstances that I have seen among olim after the aliya, here are several reasons why I think people are afraid to make the move:

    1. Fear of the unknown – you are walking into a big unknown – even if it will be better, the fact that it is unfamiliar is a big drawback to people who like everything to be predictable.

    2. Unwillingness to leave behind family members – parents and grandparents, siblings, extended family

    3. Temporary loss of status- whether at work, in your shul or community, etc., until you make your contribution to some aspect of society in Eretz Yisrael, you are an unknown person and some people find it hard to give up their familiar status, position, contributions to the klal (I don’t mean financial contributions)

    etc.

    4. One of the spouses doesn’t want to go or is only lukewarm to the idea.

    5. Fear of uprooting shalom bayis – the stress of the new situation and not being within the familiar support system can certainly wreak havoc.

    6. Worries about the effects of the move on kids, particularly pre-teenage and teenage kids – worries about kids going OTD, adjusting to schools, different frumkeit standards, language, culture, etc.

    7. Anticipation of a lower living standard

    8. Fears about the security situation, including having to serve in the army

    9. Unease regarding making the transition from American yeshivish to Israeli chareidi (more stringencies in tznius and leisure activities, for example)or anticipating being regarded as second-class if you don’t make the transition 100%

    10. Specific concerns that make the move more difficult – such as learning disabilities or physical health problems that will require new health care practitioners, etc. or that may not be as well cared for here.

    11. Immaturity in leaving family and familiarity behind

    12. Concentrating on only the uncertainties and possible adjustment problems instead of all the great ruchniyus development and wonderful things that await you.

    13. Lack of awareness of the special merits of Eretz Yisrael and of the great zechus it is to live here. Lack of applying what we daven and learn (such as “Eretz Chemda Tova U’rechava” in bentching; the fact that either it is one of the 613 mitzvos or if it isn’t it’s because it’s so obvious that it doesn’t need to be listed; the fact that Hashem watches over Eretz Yisrael more than Chutz La’aretz; the fact that the mitzvos are kept in Chutz La’aretz only so that we don’t forget how to observe them when the golus ends and we come back here, where their observance has “weight”; that one who lives outside Eretz Yisrael is like an idolator)

    14. Forgetting history – being in exile is meant to be a punishment; the Jews’ stay in many countries ended violently (Spain, Europe); and ultimately we are meant to return to Eretz YIsrael anyway.

    I think those are enough points to generate a lot of responses (and more flack).

    in reply to: Arthritis in young people #948353

    I’d like to raise your awareness to another possibility – Raynaud’s and thoracic outlet syndrome. Raynaud’s is a sensitivity to cold which causes poor blood circulation to the fingers and causes them to turn red and blue. About half of Raynaud’s cases are simple, meaning they are not caused by any underlying factors – you simply need to stay warm to avoid the symptoms. However, about half of Reynaud’s cases are caused by underlying conditions such as lupus or thoracic outlet syndrome (TOS). TOS is a group of symptoms caused by the fact that sometimes a person’s rib or collarbone structure causes crowding in the chest area and presses on arteries or nerves, causing a lack of blood flow to the fingers. Someone I know, in her late teens, suddenly in the wintertime developed several swollen fingers that looked arthritic. The family doctor said it was Raynauds. However, I did some internet research and saw info about TOS that seemed applicable in her case. In arterial TOS for example, the particular fingers that tend to swell were the same ones that swelled in her case. The swelling disappeared when the weather warmed up but then returned the next autumn. At that point she underwent some tests that measure finger temperatures after hands are immersed in ice cold water several minutes apart over a period of time. Her fingers took longer than normal to return to regular temperatures. Another test was a measure of blood flow to her hands. She fortunately has a mild case in which she is advised to 1) exercise to help increase blood flow; 2)try to gain a little weight to increase her body warmth (she is thin); 3)wear wool gloves, wool socks, and a hat and dress warmly enough when the whether gets cool or cold. Some people take a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory for this but she didn’t need to. In extreme cases surgery is performed to break the bone that is compressing everything in the chest and create more room.

    You may want to ask your doctor if this is a possibility in your case.

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