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you seem to completly misunderstand that judaism does not support the zionist military enterpise.
with the obvious exceptionn of divergents like Kook, mainstream Torah Jews do not go to the IDF because it is forbidden.
we don’t make calculations, exceptions, or excuses. We have gedolim who have been clears as day that it is better to leave eretz yisroel than join the kofrim in their sins.
this whole comment is an absurd motzei shem ra on klal yisroel.
@SQUARE_ROOT Shame on you!his father said in the name of their doctors said this was a birth defect and not the result of anything that happened to him.
the father himself describes a whole class of boys rallying aroud trying to help this kid time after time as this poor kid was collapsing into tears for precieved slights.
I’m sorry the news media is portaying this father as venting his grief by casting blame onto the child’s peers.
How anyone would read this news story and decide that they should taunt these boys and taunt klal yisroel is beyond me.
Non Jews are not allowed to keep Shabbos.
Moshiach coming depends on Klal Yisroel keeping one (or two) shabbos, not the kofrim and tinukei sh’nishba that are not part of klal yisroel. Of course, we hope they do tshiva, but our work as the Jewish nation is where we are obligated to focus and fix.@always_ask_questions
the context of the question asked by @menachem-shmei was that we are talking about a rasha who is no longer part of klal yisroel.@simcha613
it’s a good question, and something dealt with clearly in poskim and sifrei machshava.In our exile, we are obligated to submit ourselves to the non-Jewish nations around us, honor their laws and pay their taxes. In a similar vein, we are obligated to both show derech eretz in our interactions and humble ourselves in front of those we need to interact with.
That means, practically when interacting with such a doctor, one must give appropriate hakaras hatov and praise as is needed. In your heart and when relating it casually to others, it would be forbidden to praise to the person only one must praise Hashem.
If speaking to a goyishe doctor, you can say “doctor, you saved my life!”. But, you can’t tell your kids that evening “that doctor saved my life!”
If the doctor is an erliche yid, one can praise him only as much as he is keeping torah and mitzvos. So, you can glowingly relate “I even heard him mumbling a ‘yehi rutzon’ as he was putting on his gloves! such yirash shomayim!”, but you can’t tell your kids that evening “that doctor saved my life!”.
How dare you!?
It’s not me, I’m just teaching what the Torah says.
Moshe gave hakaras hatov to inanimate objects, yet you are incapable of thanking a Jews who put themselves into danger to protect you!?
I am capable, but the Torah forbids it. It’s a good question, I could easily speculate answers of the distinction, but I don’t want to add my own thoughts here. For the record, the reason given that even a “tinok sh’nishba” is included in this is that the main concern for praising a rasha is that it will influence you or others to copy their ways.
A) How do you know that they don’t keep mitzvos?
I don’t know, however, the halacha establishes the guidelines, and one must judge according to what they see. This has nothing to do with dinai shamayim which has more resources than basar v’dam.
Do YOU do no aveiros?
Sure, I do a lot, just privately so no one will copy them. Also, a “rasha” that is not part of klal yisroel is NOT anyone who does an avaira, it’s a specific threshold that must be crossed. I haven’t crossed that line, nor come anywhere close to it.
Maybe they are more frum than you?
It could be the imaginary person you are talking about, who is michalel shabbos publicly, is secretly one of the lamed-vavniks. That doesn’t change our obligation to react to their public persona not does it change the halacha.
B) Even if ch”v they are not שומר תורה ומצוות, we can safely assume that the reason for this is that they didn’t have a proper Torah upbringing, they are like Jewish children who were captured by non-Jews, for whom we should be feeling great mercy and compassion.
It doesn’t change this halach, as Rav Chaim Brisker said “nebach an apikorus is still an apikorus”
Do we know how much Hashem values their mitzvos?
A person who doesn’t believe in Hashem or doesn’t believe in the Torah cannot do a mitzvah. Many many seforim express the horrible ramifications of a rasha doing any mitzvah, and how destructive it is for them, for us, and for the world, r”l. The modern heter for engaging rashayim to do mitzvos for kiruv, is off the understanding that if they indeed do tshuva m’ahava, their sins (including the disastrous fake mitzvas they did on the way) will be converted to real mitzvos and reward for them and the world. There has been some disagreement amongst Gedolim regarding kiruv that involves chilonim doing mitzvos while still kofrim.
Rambam writes that we have no idea how much Hashem values a mitzvah. It’s possible for a mitzvah to seem insignificant to us, yet be extremely valuable to Hashem.
He’s not talking about kofrim, obviously, as his psak regarding them is clear in hilchos memarim.
Maybe Hashem values the one act of this uneducated Jew to protect other Jews more than all the mitzvos that you may have done in a manner of מצוות אנשים מלומדה?
why speculate when you can learn Torah?
never praise the actions of rashayim, nothing good comes out of their avairas
loving reshayim is another type of “sinas chinam”. we must hate those who hate Hashem.
I don’t see a disagreement between us. The “Karaim” as clearly described by the Gedolim you quoted are a very accurate description of what many call today’s “Modern Orthodox”, laymen that unintentionally misunderstand some fundamentals.
The clear “honesty, innocence, and deep respect for the real Gedolim” that the Rambam describes those mistaken “karoim” is s stark contrast to the last section of the Rambam you quote about kofrim, apikorsim, that aptly describe nearly all sell-proclaimed “Jewish” michallei shabbos bfarhesya today. That Rambam spell is out clearly, which is why I don’t see where we disagree.
If your point in bringing that last section is because of his point about “tinok sh’nishba”, I don’t understand why you omitted the last words of that Rambam that says regarding them “בתשובה ולמשכם בדברי שלום עד שיחזרו לאיתן התורה ולאימהר להרגן”. Being a “tinok sh’nishba” doesn’t change much, with many Gedolai poskim clear that a michalel shabbos b’farhesia specifically can never be considered a tinok sh’nishba, because it specifically is always a clear rejection of Yiddishkeit.
Beyond all there, there is some nuance, as I explicitly said, regarding the psak halacha for many of these practical halachos, like ribis and the like. For example, one contemporary stance in some poskim is that the classic “red line” of shabbos has become so blurred in modern time, R”L, that many Jews thinks breaking shabbos is “perfectly Jewish” because it is so normalized. As such, the psak is to be machmir on both sides.
However, none of this overrides the fundamental need for the Jewish heart to fully hate anyone who hates Hashem.
anyone who doesn’t act like a jew, (i.e. believes the 13 ikkarim and keeps shabbos publicly) one is obligated to hate with utmost contempt, in your heart and externally. this has nothing to do with knowing what is in someone’s heart. this is the clear psak of the chofetz chaim. no issur of lashon hara, rather one is obligated to dan l’kaf chov and speak badly on them. there is no din aravus, there is no issur of ribis, they have a din of a goy.
this is the din of a heretic regardless of them also having the din of a “tinok sh’nishba”. Such a person does not have a portion in the next world.
there is still an obligation of basic chesed to such a heretic, and a lot of the dinim l’maaseh are questioned for various reasons by gedolai poskim. so, we are generally accustomed to take the chumra both ways, maybe they have the “din of a yid” maybe “din of a goy”. However, the hatred towards anyone who acts like a goy is deeply important. Such a person is not part of “klal yisroel”.
he was also firm that part of “ahavas yisroel” is hating heretics and mechlile shabbos b;farhesua.
loving people who don’t act like jews is a type of sinas chinam.is the purpose of this to soften the hearts of jewish hatred towards the zionists and their evil army?
The beis din of Jerusalem recently rereleased the longstanding psak forbidding the joining IDF for and G-d-fearing Jews, confirming its application in the current situation. Until another beis din of similar stature (that was not put in chrem… kookies) issues challenges it with a different psak (which seems obvious not going to happen, as current ban follows basic longstanding halacha), this whole conversation is a mute point, and it is a shame some many people spread confusion with comments about pikiyach nayfesh and milchemes mitzveh and being “migalei panim l’torah lo k’halucheh”
the rashoyim actively doing the aveira of hisgarus ba’umos shouldn’t be praise for the destruction they bring and the danger they put us in
@chaim_baruch
the zionist dream is two part: 1) the heresy of “kochi v’otzem yadi”, the belief that Jews can protect themselves with guns and wars and an army (not with tefila, tzeduka, tshuva), and 2) that Jews have a national identity that is not “those who keep the Torah covenant”, rather it is some other pseudo-ethnic nationality.Both those ideas are alive
this website is for frum Jews. If we are part of “am yisroel” it is a fundamental belief that moshiach can come any day and that we don’t known when it will happen.
The key to stopping anti-semitism is for yidden to stop doing aveiros. Second perhaps to smartphones, the greatest spiritual calamity to masses of yidden today is zionist ideology which has impeded itself into much of the otherwise frum communities worldwide.
If a Jew thinks that the IDF or the State of Israel has any redeeming qualities (at least any more than the Crusaders or Pharaoh), they are inadvertently causing this war to continue along with the continued terrorist attacks of the past 100 years, Hashem yerachem.
the chofetz chaim is also clear to exclude anyone who is “mechalel shabbos b’farhesia” from ahavas yisroel, even if they live their irreligious life out of general ignorance.
@anIsraeliYid , That book has been widely rejected as not consistent with our Mesora. I don’t mean to disparage the intent of the author, however there is a system of halacha and transmission of mesora that has declared that work as wrong. This is similar to the critique of A Y Kook, who was put in cherem for similar views. If I am mistaken about Eim Habunim Smeicha, please tell me which gedolim endorse the sefer and/or his conclusions.
what are “Chahbonos”?
First, the Satmar Rebbe ztz”l said, and many gedolim concurred, that Moshiach would have come if not for the Zionist State. Beyond that, the foundation of teshuva is: if not for my aveiros I wouldn’t be suffering. So, there is certainty substance to the idea that if not for the Zionist State there wouldn’t be antisemitism.
Second, unfortunately many Jews have responded to the recent tragedy with running to join the zionist army and cheer when the zionists attack our enemies with bombs and guns. Honest Yidden will know that the recent events are a call to teshuva tzedakah and tefilla, the only things that can prevent such tragedies.the whole point of “modern orthodox” is specifically to not be 100%. It was considered a compromise to help people stay “in the fold” by some rabanim in the 20th century. It has run its course, as the Jewish community has established itself enough that 100% Yiddishkeit has become a mainstream option.
“Lake, i suppose opposing tzedukim, karaim, shabsai tzvi, reform, conservative, zionism, and every other bad idea was against the Torahs lesson from korach?”
Again, if the ideology is indeed “against the Torah”, you would be correct. However, there has been no authority who has made such claim, so at this point it is “sinas chinam” to publicly deride the ideology or its adherents.
“Why is criticizing an ideology hateful, and if it is, why is it baseless?”
because the specific ideology you are looking to criticize, is a criticism that has no toeles plus you are doing it very publicly to an audience that it not connected to the proponents of the ideology.Your question lacks any sincerity. If you really want to know the answer to your question, for yourself, you would ask your rav to clarify how or if the ideology is tenable. If you personally are not interested in have concluded that the ideology is wrong, yet you want to understand how it is possible for an honest Jew to believe that ideology, you would need to address your question privately to someone who is an adherent of or at least well versed in that ideology. If you don’t know anyone to ask privately in that community, there are very public rabbanim from that community that are not hard to find.
On top of that, the issue you bring up has been well discussed and debated and you (seemingly) are not bringing anything new to the conversation.
At best, you are trying to give tochacha to a community you think is wrong, however, no cherem, psak, or announcement has denounced the community or the ideology from any prominent rabanim or bataei dinim. If I am wrong, and such a move has been publicly made, than you wouldn’t need to ask your questions here, you can just reference the authority.
You are just a bully trying to get people to think bad on other holy Jews. sinas chinam.
all that this means, it that’s he wasn’t a “tinok sh’nishba”, instead a full fledged mumar