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@yankel-berel
Nothing I said is at odds with “karyane de’igrata” nor with mainstream published halacha.
I addressed these complaints of your repeatedly and you ignore them and repeat the question as if I never offered an answer.So here it is again:
1) The Steipler Geon never said a Zionist cannot ever become a kofer b’ikar. (see https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/going-otd-in-the-idf#post-2445601 )
2) There are zero mainstream charedi poskim who have published psak defending zionism, zionist ideology, or full-fleged zionists. There has not even been a published disagreement with the well known Vayoel Moshe from Satmar Rebbe (see https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/the-antizionism-amongst-religious-jews-has-no-legitimate-detractors )Whatever “mainstream psak” you might be thinking of (if you are thinking at all.. can’t tell) would likely be the majority of
tinuk sh’nishba types that are not “full fledged” zionists, i.e those who have been deceived on what the Torah teaches and if they would be faced between accepting the 13 ikkarim OR “dati leumi” zionism would reject the false moshiach religion called “Dati leumi”. Others might very well choose zionism, R”L. In the meantime, fools like yourself think they can worship both Baal and Hashem, H”y. In light of the doubt presented by the reality that many shomer mitzvos mistakenly think “dati leumi” is a kosher shita in Torah, the poskim have poskin’d.@always_ask_questions
I feel like I’m arguing with a chatbot.
You wrote “more of a zionist”. I certainly didn’t make you a zionist! Reread what I wrote.@joe-blow
you sound just like a Reform “Jew”@always_ask_questions
I ask rabbunim questions all the time and I don’t remember that ever being request or the subject of debate around here.. I’m not sure what you are talking about.This whole conversation is bizarre, as who cares the identity of the writer on an internet forum, any G-d fearing Jew is only interested in Torah and not the messenger. More than that, no G-d fearing person is going to take ANY of the sources here at face value BECAUSE identities aren’t known and no one should learn Torah from an unknown source.
Again, this whole conversation is bizarre, as the argument against Zionism has nothing to do with the authority of Gedolim, per se, rather it has to do with the authority of Torah as given at Sinai. If they teach that Torah, good. If a Gadol, chas v’shulem, teaching something against that Torah, it’s meaningless vis-a-vis the understanding of a sugya.
Gedolim are only as good as the Torah they teach.
@always_ask_questions
you said:
“You made me more of a Zionist than I was before”So be it. Like Eliyuhi Hnuvi said, if Hashem is G-d go with His Torah, if Zionism is your god go with it”
You can’t be “more” of apikorus so nothing lost for you to become “more” of a zionist, but you CAN be more of a fool to think you can be both a Yid AND a Zionist.@hakatan
I think you should be clear on what likely obvious to you which is that the cause of Moshiach’s delay was because of the Zionist leanings of otherwise kosher yidden, ie those who had not already adopted the full fledged kefira of Zionism but simply acquiesced to or otherwise accepted the followers of the zionist moshiach sheker religion, since the real full fledged Zionists – shomer shabbos or not – are no longer part of klal yisroel as per Torah guidelines.
@ujm is talking about someone who is shomer shabbos.While I don’t know what sources you are referring to, I can only imagine that you must be talking about the question of i one can invite a secular jew to shil knowing that they will drive to get there. That is a very different question that centers on the status of secular jews today vis-a-vis the laws of tinik sh’nishbu and if we have any concern for “arvis” towards such profaned “jews”.
The minhag to invite would seem to point to there not being arvis even if the “jew” is coming to shil on shabbos…
Would you also claim that “it is assur to say lashon hara about ‘Jews for J’ evangelicals even if they [mistakenly] believe that the state is the forerunner of our ge’oula.”?
Would you say that this statement was also the intent of the Steipler Geon zy”a?Of course, it was not.
The kefira of the false religion called “dati leumi” is not the simple mistake of “aschuleh d’geila”.
The Steipler says very clearly that an otherwise frum yid does not cross the threshold of kofer in ikkarei hadaas if he makes the mistake of “aschuleh d’geila” vis-a-vis the false geila of the tziyonim. That doesn’t mean that everyone who indeed makes that foolish mistake now has a free pass to believe all types of kefira and apikorsus and can never become a rushe!
Is this nonsense your claim? Or is there some other reason you distort the words of the Steipler Geon?
@square_root
a person like @ujm who quotes the many many quotes from chazal that mention that there will be a time that Jews will suffer under a kingdom of the “erev rav”. Many many quotes from chazal that express this “erev rav” as being direct partners with the S”M and Amulek.
And now, with the rise of this antisemitic stated called “Israel”, a state the has brought so much death, a state based on the same ideology that brought us the Holocaust less than 100 years ago, a state that continues to send Jewish boys off to die in order to stay in power, you can many many many rabunim and gedolim who say explicitly that this evil state called “Israel” is exactly that malchis of “erev rav” that chazal mentioned. and that this evil state is amulek in our days.Why do you call a person who reiterates those Torah teachings as a “Rasha Gamur”(sic)?
@simcha613
It is strange to me that you find what I (or @ujm or @hakatan) are saying is novel. Our stance is not just mainstream amongst the teachings of Gedolim, if you accept the “OTD” lines drawn by those gedolim, the stance is unanimous. In other words, if you accept any of the Steipler, the Chazon Ish, the Brisker Ruv, Rav Elchunon Wassermen, Rav Kotler, Rav Vosner, Rav Elyashiv, the Beis Yisroel, etc. as the “gold standard” of Torah mesorah, they have all said – some more gentle than others – that “dati leumi” is rooted in kefira and just another unfortunate form of moshiach sheker just like Reform, Yashkeh, etc.This is why there is no specific rejection of Vayoel Moshe because the fundamentals are agreed upon by all “charedim” across our camps (despite the clear dissent of some to pursue questionable “hora’as shueh’s”).
I think I saw it from Maharam Shick zy”a that said that he wishes he had the power to separate out real yiddishkeit as a distinctly different religion than “reform” in the mind of the public and have its crooked followers at least stop claiming their heresy was “Jewish” as the previous Gedolim were successful to do under the rebellion that from Xtianity. Certainly, with the infringement of “dati leumi” kefira today, we are in even more dire straits, H”Y.
In any case, I don’t understand why you are surprised that I express the Torah from these many gedolim regarding this threat.
unfortunately, @yankel-berel is deperate to always remove Hashem from the equation, believing his histadlis are what saves lives and that ultimately he is in control of his destiny. Zionist call this “self fulfillment”. Jews call this “kochi votzem yudi”.
@hakatan
I always appreciate your beautiful writing and the clarity your comment provide.@hakatan
I can’t begin to understand how you can claim that anyone who adopts the shitif of zionism and lehavdil Torah is not “off the derech”.
Does that mean they are necessarily kofrim/minim/goyim? no certainly not, as both the Chazon Ish and the Stepiler have said about such a grave mistake for some people it’s done innocently enough that they simply need to hear to correct(ed) Truths and they will quickly realign themselves to doing rutzon Hashem and keeping the pure Torah. This is exactly the distinction the Rambam makes about so-called “tinikei shenishbu”, some – perhaps a small minority – will happily reject the sheker when exposed to truth.
(Others will continue to show their true colors in Coffee Room comments… )
In any case, those unfortunate sincere “tinikei shenishbu” are still “off the derech”, until they aren’t.@simcha613
correct. have I not been saying this explicitly over and over?
as I added above, ‘I’m also very curious how many members who join “Jews for J” also go off the derech…’@hakatan
I would suggest the non-jewish population that leaves there could and perhaps should rule the area.
before the zionists, the arabs were well regarded by jews as good, respectable caretakers of the land in our gulis.@ujc
a zuken mamre, perhaps?I’m also very curious how many members who join “Jews for J” also go off the derech…
previous comment is a direct, clear answer to your question(s).
@yankel-berel
there is a havtucheh that there will always be a place for the Jewish Nation to escape to in gulis.
the problem with your theorieticals is that they ignore he Torah.
We DO believe in hashguche prutis, so theoretical horrors don’t scare me, but the real horrors of the kofer religion called “Dati Leumi” DOES scare me.I already gave you a direct answer. here it is again:
SA does NOT say what you want it to say. It says[taken from Hebrew Books and transcribided without Ramu for brevity]
יורה דעה סימן קנז: על איזה עבירות ייהרג ואל יעבור, ובו ג’ סעיפים
סעיף אכל העבירות שבתורה, חוץ מעבודה זרה, גילוי עריות ושפיכות דמים, אם אומרים לו לאדם שיעבור עליהם או ייהרג, אם הוא בצינעה – יעבור ואל ייהרג. ואם ירצה להחמיר על עצמו וליהרג, רשאי, אם העובד כוכבים מכוון להעבירו על דת.
ואם הוא בפרהסיא, דהיינו בפני עשרה מישראל, חייב ליהרג ולא יעבור, אם העובד כוכבים מכוון להעבירו על דת .אבל אם אינו מכוון אלא להנאתו, יעבור ואל ייהרג. ואם היא שעת הגזירה , אפילו על ערקתא דמסאנא ייהרג ואל יעבור.
ובעבודת כוכבים, גילוי עריות ושפיכות דמים, אפילו בצינעה ושלא בשעת הגזירה, ואפילו אין העובד כוכבים מכוון אלא להנאתו – ייהרג ואל יעבור.and the translation:
Yoreh De’ah Siman 157: On Which Transgressions One Should Be Martyred Rather Than Transgress, and It Contains Three Sections
Section 1
Regarding all transgressions in the Torah, with the exception of idolatry, forbidden arayos, and bloodshed: If a person is told to transgress them or be killed, and the transgression is committed in private ( b’tzinah ), they should transgress and not be killed. However, if they wish to be stringent upon themselves and be martyred, they may do so, provided the non-Jew intends to make them abandon the Torah.
If the situation is public ( b’farhesia ), meaning in the presence of ten Jews, one is obligated to be martyred rather than transgress,
if the gentile intends to make them abandon the Torah. But if the gentile’s intention is merely for their own pleasure, one should transgress and not be killed. If it is a time of decree ( sh’as hagezirah ), one must be martyred rather than transgress, even for the sake of a sandal strap.
And concerning idolatry, forbidden arayos, and bloodshed, even when committed in private and not during a time of decree, and even if the gentile’s intention is merely for their own pleasure, one must be martyred and not transgress.
@yankel-berel
Beyond this, there are many makoros in chazel, such as the medrash says bne efroyim were punished by mass death for breaking the shevioyos to escape mitzroyim, which clearly say one cannot break the shevios for pekiach nefesh.
If you have a serious question, just read the relatively short paragraph of maharal where he explains himself. or read vayoel moshe where the whole sugya is explains. your questions are not “bomba kashos”, rather they just show your deep insincerity and readiness to lie about what the Torah says, oy.I never said “Z is bad because it is anti-religious”
I say zionism is bad because it rejects fundamentals of Yiddishkeit: moshiach, schar v’oesh, and the definition of “Klal Yisroel”.
By extension zionists also come to reject more fundamentals such as Torah min hashomayim, emina Bashem, and more.
These are heresies currently code to religious zionism and have nothing to do with their technical kiyim hamitzvos, just like their similar buddies Jews for J, it is heresy no matter how much shabbos they “keep”. They can preach “you must keep every one of the 613 and believe in yashke as moshiach”, and they will not be yidden, rather they are still tziyonim or notzrim or whatever word you want to call them.yes. what you say is not just obvious but well documented as well. my earlier comment was sarcastic in nature to mock the heresy of notzri and/or zionist supporters. I ended it with the customary “/s” annotation to clarify for anyone foolish enough to believe the nonsense the zionists spew forth.
You are invited to offer ANY pre-zionist (pre 1890) source in Shas or Poskim that forces a machlokes anywhere in the sugya of gezeiras hagulis generally and the application of the shulosh shevios specifically.
There IS a mochlokes in the gemureh about between R’ Zeira and R’ Yehuda, so that shikel daas between them is fair.
There are ALSO perhaps nuanced machlokesim about what exactly are the guidlines of the shulosh shevios, such as what is “aliyah k’choma”, etc, but poskim have resolved all if not most of those such that there is no machlokes. You are welcome to present somewhere you think there is valid machlokes in something if my understanding of this is mistaken and you want to leverage that shita to present coherent context for a needed shikel daas.
Beyond these two points, there are many many regular mekoros of how Jews must ask in gulis, about how to understand and safeguard breaking the shevios. These all present a singular cohesive view, from midrashei chazal to tshivas in psak to sodos haTorah to mifarshei hachimash to baalei musar and hashkufeh.
I don’t see any room for shikel daas if you cannot present an alternate deyoh in Shas! Who (in shas and poskim) is expressing the alternate shitah you claim that would put into question anything I wrote visavis gulis and the shevios?
@yankel-berel
THIS is your question?
that is way too many theoreticals with many more unknown to get to anything close to a psak.
why, in your theoretical case, are the Jews at risk if they are indeed tzadikim gemurim and there are no reshoyim in their midst?@keith this is a completely anti-Torah rant of yours!
I don’t know your background, but what you are saying goes against Torah fundamentals as well taught by everyone from the Chofetz Chaim to the Baal HaTanya.>> We are told we will not our temple back until we fix ourselves with ahavas chinam.
No, “Ahavas chinam” is a zionist trope with no source in chazal.
>> Do we spit on them because they don’t keep kosher?
YES. ideologically yes. but, we Jews don’t generally resort to violence.>> Do we reject them because they don’t keep Shabbos?
YES. this is much worse than kashrus problems, as this places them outside of “klal yisroel”>> They are our brothers and sisters.
MAYBE. Someone who doesn’t keep kosher because of ta’avos is still a Jew that is “achicha b’mitzvos”. However, a michalel shabbos or someone who reject generally the obligation to keep the Torah (and even one who rejects tochaha about a single aveira, but that situation is more complex today…) are all NOT “achicha b’mitzvos”, they are NOT our “brothers and sisters”.>> We love them regardless if they choose to come back or not.
NO. Jews are not allowed to love those who rebel against the Torah, those who are not part of klal yisroel.>> Perhaps one day they will and perhaps not.
YES. The door for tshiva is always open. Maybe they will come back. We shouldn’t reject them if they want to do tshivah.>> There is however NO chance they will bless H-Shem if we do not love them.
NO. Tshiva is not dependent on anything except for each individual’s free choice. They, like anyone, cannot blame others for not making the right choices.>> They will CURSE H-Shem because we show them hate not love.
MAYBE. There is usually little reason to tell anyone outside of Klal Yisroel that you hate them.>> And it’s OUR fault not theirs.
What is our fault?>> They were never exposed to Torah Judaism and its beauty.
MAYBE. Many secular Jews have been exposed to Judaism, and that makes their sins even worse. Regardless, this doesn’t change how WE JEWS are obligated to relate to such an evil person regardless of their exposure.>> We were. It’s OUR JOB to love them and bring them to our loving Father.
NO. Our job is literally to keep the mitzvos of the Torah. While it is generally a kiddish Hashem when a baal tshiva returns, that is very far from creating a new mitzvah – chalila – of us bringing them back. Certainly, we cannot make a mitzvah from the sin of loving a rusheh,>> We are told that every generation the temple is not rebuilt it’s not that we didn’t merit to rebuild it. It’s that we actively destroyed it.
YES. Stop loving reshoyim.>>Many here live the story of the Chofetz Chaim … I am warning you now when you get to shomayim don’t use my name.
Yes the Chofetz Chaim was very explicit in his teaching about how one must hate and curse reshoyim like the ones we are talking about here. He warned you, @keith>> You think people michaleil Shabbos are delaying geulah?
No. They aren’t part of Klal Yisroel. The sins of Jews, like those who think well on kofrim and apekorosim, are the ones delaying geila.>>I think everyone here should stop saying anything negative u til learning Chofetz Chaim.
Please, take your own advice. You clearly haven’t learned it yet.>> I think many here may as well start eating non kosher – the lashon harah coming out of our mouths is worse than eating non kosher.
This is kefira. We don’t allow aveiras in lieu of other shortcomings. We don’t say one mitzvah is worthless because of another one is lacking.Please, take your own advice and learn the sugya that you speak about.
@always_ask_questions
I adamantly disagree with your statement. The core ideology of zionism is alive and well, and it is a kefira that is at the core of the heretical teachings of RZ in the same way as across all zionist groups.survivors I have spoken to claim that many days in the Nazi slave camps there were some nazi’s that would provide them old bread and sometimes soup-water. They even had established kitchens on campus to support jewish life.
That food helped them stay alive.In fact between 1942-1944 Nazi Germany was the SINGLE GREATEST SUPPORTER OF JEWISH FOOD for Polish Jews still alive.
Sure, you might be confused as the Nazis were ALSO the ones who confiscated as much food from Jews as possible and took control of their lives, forcing them into camps. But, that was Nazi Germany from 1938-1941, a VERY different almost unrecognizable thing entirely.So too Zionists claim themselves the SINGLE GREATEST SUPPORTER OF TORAH in the world…. v’hamaiven yuvin.
beyond the well known zionists like kestner and avraham stern of Lechi. you can read about many more at wikipedia “Jewish_collaboration_with_Nazi_Germany”
I appreciate the honest response that seems intent on moving the conversation forward.
I don’t have an issue with trusting the Torah “to the millimeter” nor do I doubt any part of it on any level.
However, since my point about hishtadlis seems to be novel to you, I will soften the suprise by expressing my disagreement with your claims on their own merit.
Histadlis generally is the exception that must be proven, not the other way around. For example, the starting point of being a Yid is believing everything is in Hashem’s hands. Specifically when a person is niftar is gozer on Rosh Hashuneh. This is clear in our mesora. So, every action – even general hatzula nefushos – is an exception to our normal understanding of the world and something that must be proven before allowed. So too medicine and parnsas. This doesn’t mean that those issues haven’t already been clearly established, hatzuleh nefushos and medicine and panuseh have all been well codified in Torah and in the Jewish life. Nonetheless chazal are clear that if nor for the Torah telling us explicitly, going to a doctor would simply be another form of avoda zureh and kefira in Hashem.
Beyond that clarifying point, your last comment included a very foolish false-binary of break the shevious or watch millions – chas v’shulem- burn. Keeping the shevios does not mean letting any individual Jew get – chas v’shulem – hurt. As I have written in other places: if zionists believe Jewish lives are in danger inside the medina, help them escape to safer lands. Running away from adversity is part of keeping the shevios, not breaking them.
This touches on my question to you in another thread around here right now: what is the real question? If I specifically don’t go to the army, will a Jew – chas v’shulem – die? If I specifically don’t answer the Hatzuleh Radio Medic Call on Shabbos, will someone -chas v’shulem – die? Can that person go to the hospital before Shabbos? Can that person escape the zionist danger and move elsewhere?
So, no, while of course the Torah is 100% correct, your attempt to divide and conquer its teachings is foolish and empty.
I’m being honest. you’re specifically asking for psak l’maiseh and not hashkufeh. So, please ask a specific well defined question.
“you know” is not enough of a retort when you can’t even formulate your own question intelligently.
there is no “side-stepping” here.
if the morman’s did ALL that with the only caveat being they believed in their false moshiach, then it would still not be valid.
so too Judaism rejects this false moshaich called zionism.
we cannot remove even one letter of the Torah.
huh? Hakatan, just in his last comment to you, referenced the statement of the survivor Rav Baruch Kaplan.
can you please actually quote the piece? all i see are a couple words dispersed in your explanation. what is the actual text? what is the specific source to look up? have you ever read it?
@jdb
how can you be kofer in the Torah and claim that chulonim are part of “Klal yisroel”, that shomrei shabbos are, chalila, brothers with “michalilei shabbos”?Do you not have a moshgiach to ask what means “kol yisroel areivim”? do you not know how to pick up a Rambam to know who and who isn’t called “yisroel”. Have you never learned the basics of “mordin v’lo ma’alin”?
I hope your answer is simply that you never learned any of this, and your just putting your zionist polluted amharutzes on display.
If there are any Jews who have someone coming to kill – chas v’shulem – their family, I hope you are helping them evacuate to safer places and not telling them to stay and fight it out.
the same people that argue that “Zionism is surviving so it must be (chalila) good!” also argue that today’s “Zionism” has nothing to do with original “Zionism”…
Please ask explicitly what shailoh you are trying to paskin l’maaseh?
@yankel-berel
I don’t think I am “hiding the ball” about anything we are talking. Everything I am saying is mainstream classic judaism as well documented in the major seforim of chazal,rishonim, and achronim.“Klal yisroel” means “achicah b’mitzvos”, that is to say my “brothers” are those who are classified by the Torah as being part of klal yisroel. You can read the Rambam in Hilchos Mamarim as well as his commentary on perek “Kol Yisroel”.
It’s not my business personally to figure out how many people are in Klal Yisroel, but since you asked I would point you to the most obvious external feature of someone who is presumed to be NOT part of klal is anyone who is not publicly keeping Shabbos. The same surveys that would provide you with a population count of the medina also provide a speculation that a large majority of those self-identified “Jews” do not claim to keep shabbos.
–
Regarding my statement about dismantling the medina. I said “I don’t care to imagine” because it’s not something I am practically enabled to do nor is it a position of control that I seek.
The whole hashkafic foundation of the “three oaths” specifically and the gulis generally is specifically that we Jews as a nation are NOT allowed to do physical hishtadlus (like non-jewish nations) to survive as a nation. We are supposed to specifically make ourselves vulnerable to the “70 wolves” that surround us by not engaging in their “derech hateva” politics. We are specially supposed to turn to Hashem, and Hashem alone, to protect and rescue us as a nation, in order to show to the world (and even more so to ourselves) that we are a holy nation that is not guided by the natural order.
This is the exact tikkin of gulis and exactly why the shevios are taught as such.
So, if the goal of gulis is BITEL and to NOT take control of the national fate, but rather to explicitly and adamantly rely only on Hashem, you can understand how absurd your question is about “if you were prime minister…” Someone, chalila, wanting to be prime minister is exactly them being a zionist. This is what zionists call “self determination”.
Everything I wrote above has zero to do with me or my feelings or caring about anything. The above is true because it is what the Torah teaches us, as least as per my understanding. So, please refrain from attacking whoever you think I am simply because you are motivated to reject what I say.
Many “holy” jews say that the holocaust was ‘atchlah d’goola’ and that is it a great merit to have died working in their slave camps. And that if only we could send more of our religious boys (of course, the vast majority who aren’t REALLY learning) to die in those camps, then moshiach would come! Instead stupid traditional Jews just can’t grasp the hidden good of these nazi murderers and won’t join their brethren in the gas chambers. AND YOU WONDER WHY WE ARE STILL IN GALOOOT!
/S
@square_root
it’s the exact same reason the Notzrim have a “Jews for J” division@yankel-berel
I hope this is just another source that you have not yet learned inside. In his lengthy teshuvah on the mitzvah of Yishuv Eretz Yisrael, the Avnei Nezer – both before, during, and after the section in question – spends considerable effort elaborating on the binding nature of the shevios.In this place you mention, siman 50, he explains that the shevios are rooted in the very essence of the Jewish soul, such that one who is truly walking in the “derech ha-tovah” would never even entertain the notion of violating them. He therefore suggests that this is precisely why they are not recorded explicitly in sifrei haluchah: their binding nature is so self-evident to any upright Jew that it requires no codification.
In the very next words, siman 51, he discusses the severe consequences for transgressing any of the shevios (the worst punishment in the Torah, kireis, even worse than the literal words of the Gemureh which “only” mention mass death), and then in the very next section, siman 52, he returns to address an earlier question – now in light of the above – regarding why many of the gedolei olam throughout the generations did not go to Eretz Yisrael. His answer? Because of the shevios!
Would you like me to bring specific quotes, or are you instead ready to actually learn the teshuvah yourself this time?
@izobar
Please bring the original quote you claimThe majority of population of the medina is NOT Jewish.
There is nothing meaningfully “Jewish” about the medina.I understand that you are trying to ask a question to the antisemitic audience of “Zionists” who are HAPPY that the medina is not “that type” of “Jewish” and certainly considers all types of apikorsim and minim as “Jewish”.
But how can you, a self-identified Torah Jew, endorse this lie that the masses of mechalilei shabbos (including tinikei shnishbu IF they even exist in the zionist medina) as “Jews”? How can you endorse the lie that the medina is “Jewish”? Just to win a political argument? Is the Torah worth so little to you?@yaakov-yosef-a
you have a problem with:
“Use of Nazi terminology to describe Jews, including in the title of a topic thread.”However:
There were a number of jewish nazis in WWII. There are well documented jewish “skinheads” in modern times.
Numerous gedolim have called both zionism and naziism “Amulek”.
Numerous gedolim have pointed out that Zionism (amongst klal yisroel) was the root cause of the Rise of Naziism and the Holocaust.
Numerous gedolim have pointed out that Zionist directly and indirectly supported the Nazi Holocaust.
Numerous gedolim have pointed out that Zionism was key “derech haTeva” cause of the Holocaust.Supporters of Zionism carry much of the same ideology against Judaism as Hitler shr”y and other Nazi thought leaders.
Supporters of Zionism carry much of the same practical goals against Judaism as Hitler shr”y and other Nazi thought leaders.I’m not sure what you have issue with.
i still don’t understand.
I am Jewish. I don’t have “8 million brothers there”.
Are you asking about HOW to dismantle the evil zionist state?
I don’t know and don’t really care to imagine. I’m not the PM nor do I want to be.
What I DO KNOW is that Jews should do tshiva and follow the Torah. This has nothing to do with the policies or agenda of kofrim like the zionists or their state.
@yankel-berel
again you are asking me about something without actually asking me!
what are you talking about and what Torah do you want to learn?It wouldn’t be “haredi” and I the chofetz chaim is not alive. I also don’t have any way to imaging the chofetz chaim going off the Torah derech. But, sure, chilil shabbos is chillil shabbos. shmad is shmad. aveiros are aveiros.
Do you think the chofetz chaim could become a catholic nun? would THAT mean you should also?
sorry, my above comment should have been addressed to @square_root instead of @always_ask_questions
that’s a false source. go ahead and reference and provide the quote you claim.
@always_ask_questions
you always copy the kefira, but never learn the Torah responses….
I forget what chazal call such an animal…..@always_ask_questions
Why are you ignoring the conversation and switching topics?Try responding to the Torah points I said instead of changing the conversation. Do you want sources? Do you think I am wrong about a Torah point? Go ahead and ask.
Instead, as alluded to in my long previous answer, you are following the path of the many apikorsim who simply mock religious Jews who are foolishly “involved in [their] spiritual battles” and should “come back to the earth”.
These are the words of someone who hates Yiddishkeit and bites talmidei chachumim. masis i’madiach, since you tell these evil thoughts to others.