soliek

“Ultimately, ask your LOR.”

hes not a lawyer…sorry

Bad idea.

define substantial idea…i mean how does this differ from the senate or congress? some senator picks a cause…proposes an idea to his staff…the staff write the bill…he approves it and then it goes before both houses of congress. it starts as a kernel, just a “what if” and then it turns into a bill.

unfortunately citizens cant introduce legislation and i doubt congresspeople would be bothered to even review a citizen made bill…so “what ifs” is all we have as citizens. seriously…tell me…what do you expect from OWS…an alternate form of government? theyre a bunch of people with interesting ideas you cant possibly expect nor should you expect fully detailed pieces of legislation from them. you wouldnt expect it of yourself either.

“but my opinion is still kinda the same: a bunch of ppl trying to change the world by making noise”

BINGO! you finally understand OWS! see you make enough noise you get attention. you get attention you get people to talk to you. you get people to talk to you…and if what ypu have to say is convincing and makes sense…then you now have one more supporter. i cite myself as a perfect example.

idk if you get the impression from talking to me on the CR…my friends would be able to confirm this. i am not easily taken in by movements of any kind and it is very difficult to change my mind on an issue. you have to be really convincing to do that. the fact that i support OWS should stand testament to their validity, for whatever its worth.

“but from what i’ve scanned is the raid kinda backfired in that it incited those in the group more inclined to violence.”

that is true…and it makes me very sad. i believe strongly in what the OWS people are doing, which is encouraging open discussion about the most important issues of the day, and the fat that what was always intended as a peaceful demonstration was hijacked by a bunch of hothead lunatics. that bloody kid will forever be the face of OWS and it is so tragic..after all they worked for…to have THAT represent them.

“how do you feel about OWS having these anti-semitic and terrorist comments (Jews control Wall Street, molotov cocktails at Macy’s)”

it hurts me as a person and it hurts me as a jew. however im not blaming OWS for that. i ws called a slave trader and a greedy jew at OWS by one nut. i saw NO anti semitic signs, i was treated respectfully by everyone else i encountered, and i met quite a few jewish occupiers. i do not, in ANY way, hold OWS responsible for any of the racism or vandalism that has resulted from the movement, much in the same way i dont hold Martin Luther King Jr responsible for any unintended violence or racism that resulted from his movement. there is always a fringe of every group which feels that violence and hate is the only answer and to hold the movements which they exploit responsible would be a terrible victory for that fringe.

“Wall Street certainly can be criticized, which is why this conspiracy is a very clever tactic to help re-elect Obama and keep him looking like a man of the people.”

OWS, and i say this based on the people i spoke to, does not support either side. it is completely non partisan because neither side is satisfying their claims.

“The rest of us are coasting by on the fumes of America’s past greatness.”

very true.

i like that definition

if you read further youll see he calls them an unfortunate minority. the only crime i saw there was weed smokage and i hardly think that matters…

to be honest i didnt spend enough time there to get an idea of what general sentiment is concerning tax and economic policy…so i cant answer that question yet. i do plan on going back this week though so ill post more when i know more

goq…no. it really isnt.

and no not complete laissez faire…they ARE realistic, but definitely more than we now have. about corporations not being able to contribute they mean corporations as an entity. if an individual wants to donate personally they are more than welcome to, however many people there are for donation caps.

also OWS has evolved since it began. the undercurrent of class warfare present at the outset is no longer there, or so i think. the main issue now, as far as i can tell, is corporate influence on the vox populi as it were.

about obamas policies…like i said…theyre not for either side right now. conservative or liberal. both sides, in their opinion, are missing the point. both sides are still open to corporate influence and as such, as far as they are concerned, are not acting in the best interests of the people.

average age WAS college age and a bit above, but the most vocal protesters were all middle aged or in their late thirties and over. level of education varies, but again, the most vocal are usually the most educated. there are of course exceptions like the two unfortunate loons i had the misfortune of encountering…but everyone else i spoke to seemed well educated, well informed, and quite passionate.

oh and its funny you should mention ron paul and the tea party…ron paul essentially started the tea party. look it up 🙂

i wouldnt think so

i believe this thread speaks for itself…makes my point for me. so far weve had two people say why they went of the derech…for two different reasons…and various other people propose very different reasons why they feel people go off the derech. soliek maybe people can now be a little more careful when labeling any one issue as the definitive cause of OTD?

no its actually quite a bit more than that. after going down there and talking to some of the protesters my opinions on why theyre there have changed. as i see it occupy wall street is essentially a public forum where people can come and exchange ideas. theres even an open stage where anyone who wants can speak their mind to whoever will listen. you need to actually go there and talk to people to undersatnd their objectives…

while its true that they have no single idea behind which they all unite, the general talking points, as far as i can tell, are basically ending massive government regulation of what should be a self regulating free market, and ending corporate influence of politicians through massive campaign contributions. the logistics of exactly how to go about both varies from person to person, but i must say i came across quite a few intelligent people with some very interesting ideas.

as they say…dont knock it till you try it. oh and the best part is? OWS is completely nonpartisan! i found that to be very refreshing.

also i think OWS is completely misrepresented by the press and politicians in general. i mean to hear the press describe them, on either side, theyre basically a mindless violent rabble comprised of idiots and rabble rousers who want to take over the city…and thats just not true at all. also, after speaking to a bunch of them, (and i intend to go back this motzaei shabbos) i get the feeling that theyre annoyed by both sides of the aisle using their movement for political advantage.

for example, on friday hannity interviewed michelle bachmann who, when asked about ows, essentially called them a bunch of socialist idiots. with a few eexceptions, i did not see anyone at OWS looking for government handouts. to the contrary, many of them are vehemently opposed to socialism! or on the democrat side, when democrat politicians tout OWS as a reason to increase social programs…theyre missing the point completely.

in fact…the one name that kept coming up over the course of virtually every conversation…was Ron Paul! in their opinion, ron paul comes closest to matching their ideals than any other candidate. that should tell you something about the movement. theres also a lot of talk about feeling misrepresented by either party…and the desire to form a third party if only our governmental system allowed for it. (to preempt…it technically does…but realistically speaking a third party would never win a national election.)

soliekyea…if youre actually curious about what they have to say…take a motzaei shabbos…theyre getting longer…and go down there to talk to some people. i think youll find it to be an interesting and enjoyable experience.

no one…seriously…i mean its not like you people have anything better to do 😛