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charlie: you should ask the mods to add a subtitle to your name of “muslim apologist”. actually it could be made more generic as “gentile apologist”.
Dying al kiddish Hashem IS the highest thing to which a Jew can aspire. But that dying comes from being murdered by a gentile; NOT by murdering a gentile via suicide.
You cannot assume a coffee shop that doesn’t have a kashrus inspector (and Starbucks does not) will do anything different than the horrible conditions described by frumladygit, that should give any strictly kosher observant observer chills up his spine.
I believe BP Totty correctly translated “grada”, and ICOT’s definition is mistaken.
“WiseWoman”: I’m sure the moderators had very good reason to delete most of your anti-Torah rant.
Did you check Satmar or Munkatch?
So I got a free ticket from La Guardia to JFK.
I saved the $30 the taxi would’ve cost.
You’ve been yelling at people on other threads to shut up whenever they cite halacha — telling them they cannot quote halacha and that they should only ask a LOR and not post here. Hence the hypocrisy you’ve demonstrated.
Frankly, the Gedolei Roshei Yeshivos and Roshei Kollel know a lot better what and what not to shmooze about to the Talmidim, than does an anonymous internet poster.
There are tons of good reasons to learn in Kollel — like the effect it has on your home, on your Mitzvah performance, on your personality, on your children — all of which are excellent reasons. But the main reason is, that our goal in this world is to go higher and higher. And there is no better way to go higher than to learn. Nothing even close.
The workplace, even frum workplaces, is not a place for a good Jewish boy. We have to be there, granted; we have to make a living for our families – which is a Mitzvah in itself – but we need to realize the price we pay for those necessities.
There is a story in the mussar seforim, about a man who had a premonition that next year’s crops would be poisoned, so that whoever would eat it would become insane. He didn’t; know what to do — if he would eat the crops he’d become insane, but if he does not eat the crops, the whole world will be insane except him, and being the only normal one in an insane world is just as bad as being insane. Warning people about the crops is useless because nobody would believe him anyway. So he went ot the village wise man who told him, “You have to eat the crops. You’re right – that being the only normal person in an insane world is as bad as being insane. Plus it will drive you crazy anyway. But here’s what you do:
“Tie a string around your finger to remind yourself constantly that you have eaten from the crops and you are insane. Being insane is bad, but in this case you have no choice. However, for the rest of the world, much worse than being insane is the fact that they will think they’re normal. Being insane is bad, but being insane thinking you’re normal is much worse. So tie a string around your finger which will always remind you that you are insane. You’ll be insane, but at least you’ll know you’re insane. Everyone else will think they’re normal, so you’ll be much much better off than the rest.”
The nimshal is, there’s nothing wrong with going to work, and often it may even be a necessity. But to spend the gift of life that Hashem gives us for such a short time in this world selling cars or programming computers or whatever we need to do to make a living, is insane. It may be necessary, but it’s still insane. We have so little to live in this world (we should all live to 120 years, but compared to eternity in the afterlife, 120 years is nothing), and its our only chance to collect Torah and Mitzvos — how crazy is it to busy ourselves with other things??
But we have to? OK, we have to. At the very least, let us realize that we do so out of necessity and that making a living necessitates our leading a life which, when you consider what we’re on this world for and the opportunities that exist ONLY while we are here, is insane. Let’s at least realize that.
For those who learn all day, they may not need to tie strings around their fingers, but, unfortunately, in the materialistic and confused world that we live in, they need posts such as this one, to constantly remind them that their lives are very, very normal, sane, and healthy.
The hardships of Kolel are nothing compared to the pleasures. Like Rav Aharon ZT’L said – that those who support learning might get Olam Habah like those who learn, but they surely don’t get Olam Hazeh like them. Money isn’t everything – even in Olam Hazeh.
RSRH:
As you know, Rav Schwab was the Rov of the TIDE Kehilla. In addition to his above quoted comments regarding modern orthodoxy, he also stated the following:
This, from the Rav of the Torah Im Derech Eretz kehilla. TIDE is not an integration into any foreign culture nor an entry in any sort of way, into the outside community. The idea there is for Jews to be literate and learned enough to present a positive impression and an effective message to the “outside world”, plus, the ability to withstand the powerful anti-Torah impressions and messages of the outside world. TIDE does not espouse sending Jewish children to outside Universities. Rav Hirsh made his own schools – he did not send his students outside of the community. TIDE also includes what Rav Hirsch called “austritt”, meaning that secular knowledge is only acceptable after it is separated from and discards secular culture, values, and environment. Modern Orthodoxy has omitted this fundamental condition.
Nobody is questioning the fact that there are people who would be willing to be MO or not religious at all. The issue is, What is MO and is it the preferable mode of Judaism? The fact that it is, to some, the only version, or the maximum, that they are willing to accept does not address the issue at hand. If Modern Orthodoxy would be a Kiruv stage for people who aren’t yet ready for real Torah life, that would be fine. The problem is that they consider themselves not a b’dieved, but a l’chatchilah – a full fledged legitimate lifestyle. They often even make claims of being superior to Torah Judaism. That is the problem – compromises sometimes have to be made for individuals who are on their way up. But to take those compromises and make believe they are not compromises at all, thereby fooling people who WOULD be able to go higher that they need not, or worse, that they are already the highest, is a terrible crime. While it is true that on an individual, private, level, we are allowed to even proactively cause someone to sin if by doing so we will have prevented him form committing a greater sin, nevertheless, we may never, ever institutionalize those sins, making a b’dieved into a l’chatchilah, making the exception into the rule.
The reason why it would be a mistake to view MO as merely responding to the times as opposed to making compromises, is because when a response involves lowering standards it becomes, by definition, a compromise. MO has incorporated their inadequacies into Orthodoxy – they officially allow, encourage, and even support things that are wrong. They changed the definition of wrong and right. The difference between traditional Orthodoxy and MO in regard to meeting the times is NOT a difference of quantity. It is the difference between keeping exceptional cases as exceptions versus making them into the rule.
The problem with Modern Orthodoxy is not what their Jews do, but what their Judaism says. Jews are imperfect – we know that and accept it – but Judaism is perfect, and unchangeable. We do not make over G-d in our own image.
Why should smokine be legal and Marijuana illegal? Either legalize both smoking and Marijuana, or make both illegal.
mdd: What about those that cause Tzar Balei Chaim?
Everyone should read what frumladygit posted, and shudder. After you finish shuddering, reconsider your position.
Knowing the insider information frumladygit just told us, would you still drink — even a black milkless — coffee at a Starbucks or other coffee shop???
I thought the new kosher Carvill (/Essex) closed down a few months ago.
“Where are these so called Gedolim that our American Kollelim are supposed to be producing?”
WIY: Rav Ahron Schechter, Rav Yisroel Belsky, Rav Feivel Cohen, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Look at the Roshei Yeshivos today. Most of them are American boys who became Gedolim.
mdd: Talmud Torah Kneged Kulam.
Rav Ahron Kotler ZT’L said in his hesped of the Chazon Ish, that the reason the Chazon Ish was bigger than him, was because the Chazon Ish had no yeshiva to run; he had nothing in his life except Torah. The goal of becoming a Talmid Chacham is so, so, so desirable, that everyone is encouraged to pursue it. If you cant, or wont, for whatever reason, nobody is judging you. But no question — if our goal in this world is to bring Nachas Ruach to Hashem to accumulate merits for Olam Habah to sanctify the world etc etc — becoming a Talmid Chacham is by far the best way to go.
But even if you are not going to be a Talmid Chacham, being the closest you can become, is also the most desirable and glorious and highest goal for you. Learning itself is the greatest act of Avodas Hashem that can be performed in the world.
All Chazals, such as Im ain kemach ain torah, just means that if you have no food, you cannot learn. Other Chazals say that if you have no food and you try to learn anyway, you will end up having to steal to eat, and what good is that. None of this has anything to do with Kollel. If you are supported by your parents, in laws, Yeshiva, or wife, you are not in a situation where you have to steal, and you have fulfilled the Chazal.
All Chazals that encourage people to work are also fulfilled by our Kollel people, and only exclude someone who has no means of support. Learning in Kollel is 100% a legitimate parnasa. The exhortations in Chazal against being unemployed refer to those who have nobody who wants to pay them for anything, and are forced to take money form what was designated for the poor, which they do not have to be if they would get a job. But Kollel is not Tzedakah for aniyim. There is a big difference. Kollel support is support in return for learning. Tzedakah is support in return for nothing. As long as I am earning your support – regardless of whether it is through defending you in court or learning Choshen Mishpat – I am employed.
There is an obligation on every Jew to become as great in Torah as he is able. There is also an obligation to not steal, or not to put yourself in a situation where you will have to steal. Or to make sure the Torah scholars live respectfully and not as beggars. The ideal situation is to have both.
But the standard of livelihood required is bare minimum. “Kach hi darkah shel torah – pas b’melach tochal etc.” — Bread salt and water – if you have that, you have parnasah. The Rambam writes that a typical Baal Habayis works 3 hours a day and learns 8.
Gemilas chasadim is great; bikur cholim is great; hachnosas orchim, hachnasas kallah, levayas hameis — all great. But Talmud Torah Kneged Kulam. One word of Torah learning imparts more holiness than an entire lifetime of doing other Mitzvos.
The Rambam praises those who learn all day and don’t have jobs, as the elite “Shevet Levi” of our days. Clearly, even if working is endorsed, it is inferior to those who learn.
As an aside, the Halachah is that you are nowadays allowed to live off Tzedakah to learn (see the Ramah and Shach in Hilchos Talmud Torah.)
If learning in Kollel is against the Chazals about Melachah and Derech Eretz, then so is being a Rebbi or a Rav. See the Rama YD 246:6. He brings your Chazals and says that therefore nobody can be a paid Rebbi or a Rav either, since he relies on the congregation. But then he brings dissenting opinions, and rules that the custom is that Torah scholars do benefit from their learning, by support from the community.
The Rama then says it is a Midas Chasidus – praiseworthy – for someone who can become a Gadol B’Torah and make an independent living, but continues that not everyone is capable of this. It is clear that he is saying that if you have a choice between becoming a Godol B’Torah or making a living, becoming a Godol B’Torah comes first.
The standard of livelihood required is bare minimum. “Kach hi darkah shel torah – pas b’melach tochal etc.” — Bread salt and water – if you have that, you have parnasah. The Rambam writes that a typical Baal Habayis works 3 hours a day and learns 8.
See, its very nice to make an independent living, but it is more important to become a Godol B’Torah. If you cant have both, then Torah is the right choice. Whatever advantages there is in making money, they do not come close to those of becoming a great Torah scholar.
Here is the diabetes support group:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/diabetes-support-group
Of course. Anyone can do teshuva. Simply stop doing the aveira and dispose of the nails properly.
BTW, the proper way to dispose of nails is either to burn them or bury them.
Can one type be caused by a person’s behavior (i.e. diet, etc.)?
Well, looking at it as a “game to play”, puts one on the pathway to divorce.
charlesincharge,
You said its been done for “millenia”. So I asked if that followed derech for millenia included watching TV, mixed swimming, pants, or uncovered hair.
The people that used to wear feathers in their hats, stopped wearing hats.
Johnny Kennedy had a bad influence, even on us.
charliehall,
What was done for millenia? Watching TV, mixed swimming, pants, or uncovered hair?
Whats the “shtick”?
Let us see you post a sentence or paragraph in Yiddish, big shot.
Yes, they (solid frum working guys, no TV etc.) are all over the place. Boro Park, Flatbush, Williamsburgh, etc.
aries: In other words, pretend that there is no longer any such thing as Maris Ayin?
WIY: Aren’t you referring to the godol HaRav Shimon Schwab zt”l, (of KAJ)? He said “Sometimes the Modern Orthodox halachic foolishness which is flirting with the anti-Torah establishment, may border on heresy. This is all part and parcel of the spiritual confusion of the dark ages in which we happen to live”. This is published in the Mitteilungen, Bulletin of Khal Adas Yeshurun April/May 1989.
Yet lest anyone say the gedolim are against anyone, Rav Schwab continued:
“And now we address ourselves to our chaveirim bedeah, our achim bemitzvos of the Orthodox Rabbinate of America. Ad masai? How long do you want to remain a branch, without becoming part of the tree? . . . We say to our achim b’mitzvos, “have Rachmonus with yourselves, and lemaan Hashem, part company with those who have given obscene semichah to to’evah clergymen” . . . Have rachmonus with yourselves, and break off your professional relationship with those who, for instance, consider Yishu HaNotzri merely a failed moshiach . . .We implore you . . . to part company with those gravediggers of Torah. I know it is a painful subject but it is unavoidable . . . We call on you to join us, the true Modern Orthodoxy [Rav Schwab is referring to previous statements of his that MO is today outdated and “anything but modern”], which is a generation of sincere mevakshei Hashem”.
What’s the difference between using the above processors versus the mail-in services like York or Clark or the higher end processing services like Kodak or Fuji?
Ofcourse: IOW, the way you look at it, Modern Yeshivish took a step down and embraced television even though they may have come from families that didn’t have that garbage in their homes. Whilst some Modern Orthodox took a step up and got rid of the garbage they may have grown up with, and will not have a television in the home.
Modern Yeshivish is a step down from Yeshivish (but a step up from Modern Orthodox.)
SZ: What “inherent value” of the Yasir Arafat Piece Prize?
or like going into Shop Rite that sells kosher and non-kosher.
Areivim zeh l’zeh is of greater importance than spelling.
I agree with the above posters that calling the cops to ticket a car is mesira.
It is also mesira to report the homeowner has an illegal driveway.
Being mevazeh talmidei chachomim (i.e. kollel yungerleit) is apikorsus.
If more people would do the proper thing, and sit shiva and cut off these intermarrieds, you wouldn’t have these issues.
It seems like many people in the CR are trying to shove their kulos down everyone’s throat. I know what’s coming next. “It’s not a kula, it’s blatant halacha.” If that’s the case, provide a source and discuss it. But to say its okay because you do it is just stupid.
Another interesting observation is that some people say don’t pasken when someone mentions a halacha that something is assur, yet the same person has no problem promoting something that is assur, essentially paskening that they can override the issur.
It was a joke, good people of the coffee room. Although I certainly don’t agree with bombmaniac, my previous comment was sheer humor.
Yishmael did teshuva.
It is absolutelt untznius to go on a date when you know already you wont be marrying that person.
Clearly bombmaniac was born with a silver spoon in his mouth.
“Chardal” is much to far to the left for the vast majority of frum New Yorkers.
Amazing how some people twist non-heterim into doing some of the biggest aveiros in the book.
Use your Jewish name, not modern Hebrew.
(Even the Ivrit language is problematic, but that is another discussion altogether than names.)
I love the non-kosher restaurant thing
You seem to love many non-kosher things.
We have non-Jewish relatives and we always invite them.
Why are you acknowledging your goyish “relatives”? And by inviting them to a non-kosher restaurant, nuch altz!
WIY:
What you state is truly the hashkofos HaTorah.
Well said.
Americhoice (in Brooklyn).
Click below for information on filing a complaint:
–> NYC.GOV File an Illegal or Painted Driveway/Curb Cuts Complaint <–
Because Moq has already cut and run.
The following is all taken from NYC.gov:
Curb cuts require both a DOT and a Department of Buildings permit.
Curb cuts must not be located in bus stop zones or too near fire hydrants, trees, utility poles or parking signs.
Installing a curb cut without a permit may result in court appearances and the imposition of fines. Initial fines can be as high as $2,500.
Proposed curb cuts must comply with regulations from the Department of Buildings, Department of Transportation and the Department of City Planning.
In most zoning districts, [private property] parking spaces must be at least 8.5 feet wide and 18.5 feet deep, and must be fully within the property lines.
In most zoning districts, [private property] parking spaces are allowed only in the side or rear yards.
Curb cuts must be at least 10 feet wide, including the splays (slopes).
The following minimum distances are required between the edge of the driveway splay (slope) and the items listed below:
— Five feet from NYC right-of-way lines and utility easements in residential zones
— Seven feet from trees, light poles and street signs
— Ten feet from fire hydrants, telephone booths and utility poles
— Sixteen feet from the edge of an adjacent driveway.