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The following is not specific to Lev Tahor but these type of situations in general. LT happens to be the example because they are under discussion
Frequently when are accused and presumably guilty of very bad things all judgement other than negative judgment is thrown out the window.
Even TODAY after all the things LT has done I still oppose a mass kidnapping/saving of all the children there and having them placed in better foster homes without an unbiased individual investigation on a case by case basis.
I know LT would never cooperate with such an investigation but if you have the power to take away children then you have the power to investigate.
Much as I DESPISE Trump I would still want him to win over Biden. Even so I don’t know if I can bring myself to vote for him
>>>the Chazon Ish even applied the Sanhedrin executing those publicly dressed grossly indecently, which isn’t an official death penalty crime.
Where is this Chazon Ish written?
What about the Rishonim who explicitly say that “Makkim V’Onshim etc.” does not apply to misas beis din?
As above I will only discuss this with you if can give clear maare mokomos.
Otherwise it’s ironic that you would start a thread about not establishing the facts before acting
UJM
Before I respond to you further do you even know which Dafey Gemorah the story with Shimon Ben Shetoch appears?
Can you share that with us along with the context that it is mentioned in all of them?
After you give that to us I’ll explain why it seems so clear that he determined guilt before acting
No idea where the assumption that Shimon Ben Shotoch did not convene a Beis Din to determine if the women were guilty or not is based on. That it is not the impression one gets from learning the sugya where the story is discussed. It is true that the story of the witches did not go in accordance with the normal procedures of misas beis din (for reasons discussed in the Gemora and Rishonim) but
it seems pretty clear that he did determine their guilt.Even those involved in the Salem with trials themselves untimely came to agree that it was aterrible travesty.
But of course the people who read the mainstream media are pure consumers of truth and fact.
As above it amazes me to see people trust and parrot what they are being told by the mainstream media and they fault Trump supporters for believing what their side says.
One of the few things Trump supporters and opponents both agree about and are both right about is that the other side is full and overflowing with Sheker.
Jackk:
I’m not going to argue with you but I will say this:
I hope you don’t look down at the radical fanatical Trump supporters —frequently referred to as cultists on the online world- because the only difference between you and them is which side you happen to be on.
In fact I think you should have major empathy for them because in essence they feel and believe exactly the same way as you. Just from the opposite perspective.
>>>The lawyers that followed Trump have all paid the price for trying to destroy American democracy.
Wow! Your whole post is so full of emotion, malice and slavish party line propaganda I can only only ask do you really think you are more objective about this than a crazy Trump supporter?
For me personally the fact that Democrats SCREAM and RAVE with some emotion and ridicule about this issue is one of the reasons that (1)I don’t trust them and (2)I think that deep down they realize that maybe there really was election fraud.
To quote Shakespeare “Methinks that women doth protest too much”
>>>Trump would actually have had a better argument if he had retained legitimate election experts and lawyers to press his claims.
Initially Trump did in fact try to legitimate election experts and lawyers to press his claims.
The harassments those law firms got from Democrats caused them to drop the case. The harassments those law firms and anyone who dared say that “MAYBE fraud took place let’s look into the allegations ” got from Democrats is one of the reasons I’m not convinced it didn’t take place.
Not saying it did of course. Just that I don’t know but DO know that if it did the Democrats and media would lie and do whatever else they could to cover it up.
>>>If the election were stolen how did those who rigged the election allow Republican candidates for Congress to outperform Trump by large margins. Wouldn’t they have also stolen those races?
Actually the irregularity of that (1)so many more votes were cast for Republican congressional candidates and that (2) so many people voted only on the presidential level but ignored the congressional races has been used as a proof of voter fraud.
It is totally not a question as to why did the fraud only occur on the presidential level? (1)There was a much bigger passion among the fraudsters to see Biden win/Trump lose and (2)it is much easier to spread it out and make the fraud less noticeable on a presidential level
I don’t know.
I have no evidence that the election was stolen but I don’t put it past anyone to engage in election fraud.
The Democrats spent many years telling me that Trump only won because of Russian collusion without giving me any evidence either. Apparently they don’t believe that winning the election through voter fraud is particularly difficult.
Why should I now assume that none took place? Because the people who four years ago were telling me about the election being a result of Russian collusion are now telling me that all such claims are false and baseless?
In the absence of clear Rabbinic guidance from respected Rabbonim (not aguna activists-see below) I don’t see how anyone can get themselves involved in a fight that doesn’t pertain to them and don’t know both sides of the story.
I’ve seen video’s of Aguna protests. Some of the people in the crowd looked like they were relishing the opportunity to fight with and harrras someone else. I won’t even start with those who harras family members…
A certain rabbi who was a major aguna activist (he no longer is due to external factors) told me point blank that he takes it for granted that a women coming to him is the victim and saying the truth even without speaking to the husband.
I can’t imagine it is a Chiyuv.
Did you think the Amora who said his wife is a fulfillment of the Posuk of “motzey ani mar M’Moves es haisha…” and all the other Tannaim and Amoraim who are mentioned in the Gemora as being married to very difficult (and probably emotionally unstable) women loved them?
As the saying goes “If you want to be loved you have to be lovable”
<i>This is another piece of propaganda that unfortunately seems to be swallowed by many frum Jews.</i> blah, blah, blah
I’m sorry to say this but you are clearly a guy who blindly fell for propaganda without any objective thought.
I’m not going to argue with you but I will say one point about most doctors. What choice do they have other than to support the vaccine? If they say anything otherwise they will be called pro death and tarred and feathered by people like you. My niece is a RN with plenty of hospital experience. She didn’t want the vaccine because she already had Corona. She was warned that if she refuses she will lose her job and she knew no other hospital will hire her so she took. Now she is being added to the statistics of “almost health care workers are vaccinated…”
Let me stress I’m PRO everyone getting the vaccine. I think it is people like you who give people valid grounds for suspicion about it
All the people screaming hysterically AGAINST anyone who questions the vaccine are a big cause in why people don’t trust it. In a society where people can not talk or have questions without hysterics you are asking for conspiracy theories’ and mistrust to grow.
I am vaccinated and 10000000% pro vax. Even so I will admit that twice when arguing with anti-vaxxers they caught me repeating baloney that I believed because I had been told that by reputable sources about the safety of the vaccine. I didn’t change my mind but I did start to understand the resistance. Very well.
Stop the exaggerated hysterics. ( a healthy twenty year old is very unlikely to die if they don’t get vaccinated) Acknowledge that the anti Corona vaxxers may be right about some points and adre them honestly . Then you will have a much better chance of convincing them that the vaccine is a lot safer than not taking it.
I shouldn’t be responding to this trollish thread but even assuming women don’t need to work if a women is sitting around and doing nothing productive all day her husband has the right to force her to get a job as per the Gemorah and Shulchan Aruch.
I find it difficult to believe that in the Chasidish and Yeshivsh world boys go OTD more because look at the heads of the anti-frum OTD movements like Footsteps, look at all the anti-frum OTD writers. The ratio is about 8:1 female vs. male Even YAFFED which claims to be Yeshiva graduate has a half female board. I can think of other OTD anti-frum organizations that don’t have a single male board member.
Therefore I question how it can be that men go OTD more.
I don’t want to disagree with you parents which is why I did not comment previously but how are all the other bochurim getting to Yeshiva if not by bike? Speak to your parents about what they do
My son also goes to a mesivta in Kensington. He walks to and from Yeshiva even late at night. I insist that he carry pepper spray with him but other than that I don’t think he is in such danger that he can not do it
Even in my days as a bocher (thirty years ago) most yekke bochurim I knew only wore talesim because their fathers wanted then to. None of them are insisting that their sons do.
Also with the decline of Washington Heights kehila it is harder to be a yekke in general. Which kehila without a main base and nucleus did survive? Plenty of other groups and minhagim died out for the same reason
But of course when Trump was president the guy complained about being scared to wear a kipah with Trump as president.
Whatever garbage the liberal trolls are going to say here I’ll say one thing about myself . When Trump was president I didn’t insist my children carry pepper spray with them . I now do. Because of the threat they face from people who vote for Biden
Alyosha Karamazov
Whatever. I didn’t say anything about stolen elections .
Never try to reason with a guy who has Trump Derangement Syndrome so no further comment
Alyosha Karamazov
There is major difference between opinion and fact. The things she said are subjective. No one can say with certainty they are true or not. Her opinion is that they are true. The other side says that they aren’t.
Her still bringing this up month later and still insisting on calling the other side “mobsters” and other names is just picking a fight for the sake of a fight . Not standing up for truth. Even if like all baaley machlokes she insists that is her motive.
Every baal mochlokes claims to be standing up for truth and higher principles. As the Chazon Ish said said “It’s an aveira to lie but saying the truth isn’t always a Mitzva.” (i.e. Sometimes you should just keep quiet)
Whether she is right or wrong about this issue is irrelevant. No group would or should keep someone who is constantly picking public fights with other members of the group in a leadership position.
The United Sates is not the only country in the world that allows sentencing juveniles to life without parole.
Antigua and Barbuda, Cuba, Dominica, Israel, Nigeria, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, the Solomon Islands, Sri Lanka, Tanzania also do.
The US only allows such sentencing in the case of murder. I have no problem with a murderer getting life without parole. Even if they are juveniles. Although I would prefer that they get the death penalty instead.
More info needed.
Did you ASK him for his opinion about following a particular mehalch?
Why did you ask him and not your rebbe in the first place? Once you asked it isn’t so simple to ignore his opinion.
If OTOH he offered his opinion without you asking then I don’t think you are bound by it if your Rebbe says otherwise. Asking for a brocha from a godal doesn’t obligate you to follow his mehalech hachaim.
I don’t read Mispacha columnists so I don’t know what JR actually wrote but
(a)Is indisputable. Even the liberal defense of Fauci does not deny it. They only claim that his funding did not contribute to Covid-19 being developed
Link removed
(b)Don’t believe that JR wrote that in such absolute terms
(c)sounds correct based on my memory of covid reporting . All Fauci did was say no and discourage possible remedies throughout. Possibly he was correct for discouraging them. Possibly he wasn’t.
In general, Fauci was not a trust inspiring person. To have a job a like his you need to be capable of doing more than saying no and making restrictions. You also need to contribute to the cure.
One thing I will say bad about Trump.
Trump Derangement Syndrome is real.
It affects both his supporters and enemies but his enemies seem to have it more acutly.
How else can you explain their obsession with him and blaming him for everything after he is long out of office?Refua Shleima to all those who have it
It started about ten years ago.
It isn’t such a major trend. How many people do you know who actually went there?
The cynical part of me wants to say what I know most people reading this are thinking.
The better part of me will say that all the marketing in the world isn’t going to make the grave of anyone reading this a place where masses of people will go to daven and people won’t be claiming that that they saw a yeshua after they davened by the kever of anyone reading this.
Rav Shaya MeKerstir was known as a tremendous machnis orech and baal tzedoka during his lifetime. A person overflowing with Ahavas Yisroel. And his brochas were known to have a higher than average chance of working. Therefore people feel his kever is a place to daven and doing mitzvas l’iluy nishmosey can bring yeshous.
Rav Yaakov Kamestsky said that there may or may not be living creatures (animals) in space but there can not be people like creatures with Bechira because Hashem would not have created people with bechira with giving them some sort of guidance and Zos H’Torah Lo T’hay Muchlefus.
Your best bet would probably be advertising and marketing it as a sefer for bochurim who are struggling understanding lomdos.
The typical bocher and yeshiva who is already into lomdus would not be interested in a English language lomdus sefer . The ones who would be interested are the ones who are trying to understand lomdus in the first place. But once you get those bochurim to look it it it will have a presence in the Yeshivos.
I have no issue with vaccine passes as long as
(1)there are vaccines available for everyone so not getting vaccinated is a 100% matter of choice
and
(2)there is clear medical evidence that the unvaccinated pose a medical risk to themselves or other by their presence. (Clear medical evidence does not include government or media “I said so. Don’t you dare question it or be too dumb to understand it”
Otherwise it is government overreach .
The above is for public places. A private group should not need condition (2)to require a vaccine pass.
She was lying then. She is lying now.
IOW she is a typical lawyer and typical person involved in politicsIf the stimulus was really about putting money into the economy and helping the disadvantaged it would do something for struggling seniors. They are the least capable of helping themselves and it the biggest need of help. How $3,600 per senior making less than $80,000 instead of per child?
But why would the Democrats care about or help seniors? After a lifetime of life experience they no longer vote for Democrats and anyone the Democrats focus on the younger voters. For the seniors the Democrats focus is on legalizing euthanasia and getting rid of them
To put things in perspective.
The stimulus is costing about six thousand dollars for every single man, women and child in the United States. The most anyone is getting is 3600.
And next year when the Democrats will be pushing to make some of the provisions permanent (you saw it here first) all the talk about what this stimulus is going to do for the economy will either be out the window, or they will point at the economic improvement from opening up businesses post corona as “proof” that the stimulus did such a great job so we nee more of it
<i>Taxes are not only mutar they are mandated by the Torah and the Rabbis. See what Rambam says about what happens to people who don’t pay their taxes.</i>
And see what the Gemorah says about politicians who stay in office by taking money from one person to give other people to gain the recipients support. And what the Gemorah says about the non-Jewish mindset that forcibly taking money from the rich to give to the poor is “chesed”
And see the gemorah about how you can not tax people for things they have no personal benefit from.
And see te Rishnoiom about what measures were in place ot make sure the 99% doesn’t use ttheir power of mmajority to gang up on the one percent and make them pay for who knows whatWhoever he is, presumably like Rabbi Trenk, he is working in a Yeshiva for those who are struggling.
So that is where you should look for him.
( Not that there aren’t any loving mechanichim in more main stream Yeshivas It’s just that isn’t so hard to love motivated Talmdim. No one is writing books about you for doing so)
Totally not connected.
The Israeli Supreme Court is a self perpetuating unelected group of people . No one in Israel is responsible for their actions. Plus they are the type of people who would probably agree with whatever anti-Israel positions the ICC take. Ditto for the Reform movement which is for the most part who would would also take the same position as the ICC in anything pertain to Israel
.
I do however see the midda kneged middah in relation to Cuomo YM”S . He used his emergency powers to created red zones. Now they were taken from him in disgrace.He made it easier to sue Yeshivos with less proof over allegations of abuse. Now his career is getting destroyed over those allegations.
And in Gehonim they will be mashlim the rest for Cuomo
Even though I will benefit I remain opposed and think it is a VERY bad idea.
Even assuming the predictions of inflation and other problems this will cause don’t pan out these welfare programs have a terribly destructive impact on the people on it.
I’m an accountant. People tell me that they would love to work but can’t afford to ALL THE TIME!!!
Or as some people put in “work is a luxury that I can’t afford…”
Even worse I used to work at inner city tax preparation place. These single women used to tell me point blank that they had their multiple children to an equal number of unknown fathers only because of the lifetime government support they would get for them
Health,
I’m as far from a liberal as you can get.
Even so I don’t think anyone should make claims of “will of g-d” in relation to a congressional proposal.
Had Mr. Stueben argued either (1)that the bill is inherently anti-religion as opposed to a neutral secular law or (2)even in a secular society the bill is objectionable then I would be a lot more sympathetic to what he was saying.
(To be clear the liberal argument that the opposition to things like gay pride and abortion etc. is all religious based is baloney. Even the genocidal anti religious communist governments didn’t recognize gay marriage and opposed abortion when it suited their purposes)
He is correct. There has to be a separation of religion and state.
I would have put it differently and would have said
“Mr. Steube, Congress can not create the secular law in this country based on religious or anti religious viewpoints ”
I just want to make this clarification because this conversation is not on the level to have a serious sugya mixed into it.
You cannot unintentionally make an idol. If someone bows to your property it doesn’t become an idol or Avodah Zorah.
Without going through the whole sugya, The Rambam Avodos Chacomim 8:1 paskens
בַּמֶּה דְּבָרִים אֲמוּרִים בְּבֶהֱמַת עַצְמוֹ. אֲבָל אִם שָׁחַט בֶּהֱמַת חֲבֵרוֹ לַעֲבוֹדַת כּוֹכָבִים אוֹ הֶחֱלִיפָהּ לֹא נֶאֶסְרָה שֶׁאֵין אָדָם אוֹסֵר דָּבָר שֶׁאֵינוֹ שֶׁלּוֹ.
<i>When does the above apply? Regarding one’s own animal. If, however, one slaughtered a colleague’s animal for the sake of Avodah Zorah , or exchanged it for an Avodah Zorah, it does not become forbidden, because a person cannot cause an article that does not belong to him to become forbidden.</i>
This has nothing to do with Trump statues and silly politics. Please don’t respond with them.
I could be wrong. Maybe it is possible to unintentionally make an idol. But please limits all proofs to Torah ONLY. No references to this particular statue. And no boich sevoras.
HUJU
Let me put this in terms you may understand.
This is what you call “man creates fictional scenario and then gets all worked up about it.”
There may be a picture somewhere of someone bowing to the statue but I sure couldn’t find it with a google . Not even on the notorious Trump Derangement Syndrome sites (no worries I’m sure one will be photoshopped soon).
There are statues of all other presidents as well. No one makes an issue.
As far as making something into a idol by someone bowing to it, something tells me that the brilliant OP (your description not mine) isn’t very clear in the sugya of “Adom Oysser Dovor Sh’Anoy Sheloy”
Or maybe you are right and I need your explanation. If you can back up what your saying based on the Gemorah, Rishonim and Poskim on the sugya I’m all ears
It’s hard not to notice the irony of Trump’s enemies rather than his supporters crowing him and statues of him as idols….
This Trump Derangement Syndrome is getting even more out of hand than it already was.
Some guy made a fiberglass sculpture of Trump to resell. Strongly insists it is a sculpture and not an idol after his his enemies decide it is an idol for him. Plenty of Obama sculptures for sale too.
The TDS crowd still screams he made a gold idol to worship.
Whatever.
jackk,
Your post is also more of a rant than actual cogent arguments that can be discussed.
but to address two
<i>Systemic Racism is not a hoax. It exists.</i>
There is affirmative action and other systems in place to make sure underprivileged white people don’t get ahead
<i> police brutality is an issue that needs to be resolved because it effects all citizens – whites too.</i>
And crime is an even bigger issue that needs to be resolved because it effects all citizens – BLACKS too. How many thousands of (mostly black) people did the liberals send to their deaths with the “police reform” after the BLM riots? How many thousands more will die for the sake of those “reforms” until a Republican takes over? (Hint: In NYC alone the murder rate is up fifty percent compared to a year ago. Over ninety percent of those murdered are black or Hispanic)
The Democrats and liberals who like to call “systematic racism” are usually also very anti-Semitic and Jews are from the first people they will be accused of taking “white privilege” that has to be eradicated.
I NEVER heard heard any Democrats or liberal use their “wokeness” and “victimhood” in defense of the Frum community. If anything they sneer that the frum community has a “persecution complex” when they are clearly discriminating against it.
A year ago the answer would have been “no”
Today the answer is “yes”
Impeachment today is such a joke and partisan game that you can impeach anyone over any accusation that will resonate with YOUR supporters. That is all that counts.
“Whataboutism” and “don’t deflect” is what liberals says anytime you point out their glaring hypocrisy and double standards. Which is something you see on a daily basis because as the saying goes “If not for double standards liberal would not have any”. Which is why they have to come up with a defense which is essence saying “my mind is made up. Don’t confuse me with the facts”
<i>L’Havdil, Rav Malkiel Kotler SHLIT”A went to Betzalel, a non-frum Jewish school in Lakewood.
Public schools back then did not teach the pritzus they do now. They were much worse. Most secular schools in the 20th century were very into Atheism and openly anti-Semitic. </i>
This isn’t true Betzlal was a(co ed) frum school. When RMK went there many of the teachers were from the BNG Kollel community.
Public schools were not very into atheism back then (colleges were)
Firstly they were more focused on teaching the “R”s so in general they taught much fewer controversial topics . Secondly every account of frum people who in public school back then talks the axiomatic belief in Christianity . No one mentions atheism being pushed.
It is true that they wanted people to be English speaking Americans and value the then prevailing culture but that had nothing to do with religion per se
Why are they getting divorced?
Because they had Shalom Bayis problems
Why did they have Shalom Bayis problems?
There could be literally hundreds of reasons. No way I can speculate on it even with knowing the people involved. Let alone without.
First of all coming in seventeenth place is nothing to boast about. Particularly when you a bloated system as bad as New York. Let them at least do something.
Second and more importantly the anti-Semitism, bigotries and racism which is being used to distribute these vaccines should make even the biggest Cuomo supporter have pause.
https://hamodia.com/2020/12/31/city-will-prioritize-vaccinations-hardest-hit-neighborhoods/