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Trump would never meet the halacha standards of masis umadiach.
And Halacha does not allow the judgement of kings to begin with… because it would never be a fair trial… (albeit for a different reason than Trump)
Ruvain
Don’t start with Gemorah and beis din.
The impeachment trial is so antithetical to Torah and Beis Din that there is no end but for starters he would never be brought to Beis Din over what is worst case scenario a grama and Beis Din would NEVER allow ANYONE to be judged by his enemies like the impeachment trial is doing.
And that’s just for starts. It’s questionable if this impeachment would meet L’havdil the secular standards for a fair trial as set up if the sixth amendment but last impeachment trial the Democrats brushed away such arguments by saying that the sixth amendment refers to criminal trails and impeachment isn’t a criminal trial(typical Democratic logic. Only by CRIMINALS do we worry about they are treated…)
It’s more like they are scared of Biden.
So much of the Democrats political identity is intertwined with hating Trump that at this point they desperately NEED him to stick around as a boogey man. An impeachment trial will unite the left but spilt the right, take the focus off Biden’s ineffective Corona response and other failures of his administration.
Without Trump and Republicans to fight with, without distracting their followers by blaming Trump and Trumpists for Americas problems they would (1)have to actually deal with some of them (2)allow the spot light to shine on their failure to do so.
That is what this impeachment is about about.
<i>That would have been illegal because of the Johnson Reed Act that I mentioned in the opening post. The Johnson Reed Act was passed by a Republican Congress and signed into law by Calvin Coolidge, a Republican. There was no such thing as asylum under that law, even termporary.</i>
The people who passed the Johnson Reed Act had no idea the holocausts would take place decades later. Roosevelt and his fellow Democrats Democrats had the political capital and ability to easily make an amendment allowing temporary asylum while the holocausts was going on. They did even try.
Put the blame where it belongs.
CTLAWYER
There is nothing in your post to respond to hence my response was limited to an observation.
You are the one who responded to my comment that the next Republican to win will be a non career politician LIKE HC or BC by attacking both of them on a personal level bringing in white supremists and talking about “reactionary Latinos from the deep south such as Cruz” (where did that come in?) etc.
With such a response I can only respond that people with your bigoted and condescending attitude are why people vote for Trump or join either more radical groups.
CTLAWYER
It is people with your bigoted and condescending attitude which is very prevalent in the media that causes people to vote for Trump or join either more radical groups
Imagine how different the world would be if the Democrats running the United States at the time of the holocaust would have been willing to give TEMPORARY asylum to the Jews in Europe as was being requested at the time.
Imagine how different the world would be if it was the frum Jews who had Roosevelts ear during the holocausts rather then secular liberal ones.
Imagine how different the world would be if The New York Times as a Jewish owned liberal and secular paper didn’t try to hide and downplay the holocaust while it was going on.
etc.
(1)Yes to the the first half of the question. It doesn’t look like Republican are interested in career politicians anymore. Nonpoliticians like Ben Carson and Herman Cain are also very popular in the Republican primaries. My guess is that the next Republican nominee to WIN will be someone like one of them.
(2)The only way Trump can become president again is if (a)Biden REALLY messes up (b)At 82 Biden runs for reelection (c) There are no Republicans running in the primaries who manage to connect with voters (d)Trump actually wants to run again. IOW zero chance
Trump may run in the primaries again for the thrill of adoring crowds. That would be wonderful for whoever actually Republican nominee because the media focus and hate will be focused on Trump instead of him the entire primaries.
Presidential pardons rights are abused by all presidents.
<i>The democrats did not create an insurrection, so it does not mqtter what they said.</i>
Are you really that incapable of seeing fault in Democrats no matter what they say or are you just trolling?
BL’N I will no longer respond to you. You are a Democrat so it doesn’t matter what you say.
How about Democrats taking responsibility for some of this
Video removed
A lot worse and more explicit calls for violence than what Trump said
Yes. I know the Democratic response to this is going to be “don’t deflect” You don’t have to tell it to me
If anything violence towards the capital building is MORE justified that towards a random business district because
(1)the actions taken place in the Capital is what they were actually protesting . What did a downtown business district do to anyone?
(2)No one’s life (other than the police killed and those who the police killed) gets ruined if the capital is ransacked. Plenty of people had their lives ruined by BLM ransacking business or residential districts
(3)The capital has a police force capable of defending themselves (despite their horrible failure to do so this time). Joe Schmoe small business owner has no way of fighting back against the mob.
<i>“He also willfully made statements that, in context, encouraged – and FORSEEABLY (my emphasis) resulted in – LAWLESS (my emphasis) action at the Capitol, such as: “if you don’t fight like hell you’re not going to have a country any more.” Thus INCITED (my emphasis) by President Trump,…</i>
When I first read this post I though it was written by an OPPONENT of impeachment trying to highlight how far fetched and weak of a case the Democrats have that Trump is guilty of anything.
<i>The Torah punishes a maisis umaduach to death.</i>
That would only be true what he said was explicit and unequivocal . Among other limitations.
When you see the events of last week you see another reason why the Torah only allows Beis Din to punish for garmey- borey hezeka and not groma
Once you can claim “you are guilty because you “caused” something” there is no end to what you can charge your enemies with Therefore if it isn’t clear garmey you can’t be punished for “causing” in this world. Plus there is no way to know what is someone else’s heart so “he meant to incite a crowd ” can not be decided by a human court.
(If some liberal politician said right before a BLM riot “We have to FIGHT police brutality. We have to FIGHT to make sure black lives aren’t lost at the hands of the police no-one would try him for incitement. The incitement charges are clearly being abused )
I don’t only mean Trump. The prosecutor said that he may charge people who were nowhere near police office Siticik at the time of his murder with murder-felony. That is so sedom like you see why the Torah does not allow human courts to punish for groma.
In general the abuse of “he caused” is an endemic in the American court system.
Reading some of the comments here I’m reminded of the old saying
“If not for the sake of double standards, liberals would have any standards to begin with”
Saying that there things for which rioting could be excused, or at the very least, looked at in a lenient light boils down to “if I agree with you it’s OK to riot if I don’t then it’s not.”
That is in fact the liberal position (when it suits their purposes) but it is totally unacceptable. The ends don’t justify the means!
The difference between killing a terrorist and a killing neighbor in an act of theft is that killing a terrorist is inherently justified. Even if someone is on MY side but killing innocent civilians I would agree that he deserves to be killed. And even if someone is on MY side rioting is unacceptable. There is no double standard.
If however you believe that rioting is sometimes justified then your issue with those who broke into the capital is that you believe they were on the wrong side so that makes what they did wrong. They don’t think so. They are just as entitled to their opinions as you are. Putting current events aside a stolen election is no less important and worthy of an issue than police brutality.
Actually the BLM riots caused and continue to cause the fatal deaths of who knows how many black people.
Aside from the acts of murder done by the BLM rioters themselves, the police “reform” they brought about caused a skyrocketing murder rates in many cities. But whatever, black lives don’t matter unless they are lost in confrontation with law enforcement, anyway.
The rest of your comment, Participant, boils to what I said before, the only consistency liberals have shown in this is their fidelity to their false belief that only the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter is which side you are on. If riots are (more) acceptable for a “good” cause than anyone should have the right to riot because all people who riot believe that they are right. Whether they are in fact right or not.
Those involved in the capital riot believe they are standing up for democracy and preventing an illegal stolen election. They are only the bad guys because you don’t agree with them about that.
<i>The duplicity of Trump supporters here is simply amazing.</i>
Actually the only consistency I’m seeing among the liberals is that apparently they truly believe the only difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorists is which side you are on. And this side the protestors are not on their side…
Everything else is so contradictory to what they have preached to us all summer about violent protests.
It contradicts everything they preached about riots since always like “A riot is the language of the unheard” or “people don’t get themselves in dangerous riots unless they feel desperate” and many other sentiments of theirs.
It contradicts their reactions to riots which is usually inviting the political leaders who identify with them to present their views in Washington.
etc.,etc.,etc.
but whatever, this time for a change the protestors aren’t on their side so all their principles can easily be thrown in the garbage. Like they always do.
To correct the above To be clear I don’t see the capital invasion as being a big deal in regard to other forms of rioting like ransacking a downtown business and killing people in the process. It certainly is a big deal.
I don’t know if I would vote for him but I don’t regret voting for him.
I thought he was a jerk then and think he is a jerk now.
I thought that if elected on balance his policies and appointees would be better than Biden’s and still think that way now.
I thought he would act like a jerk if he lost and he did.
I blame the liberals for the capital invasion. The people involved saw footage all summer long of people rioting and invading government buildings.(and worse) There was no strong condemnation of that behavior. There were no serious punishments given out to those involved. They naively thought they would be looked at the same way.
They didn’t realize that (1)the capital isn’t just any government building(at least of this writing that is what it became when the liberals were storming the senate floor and disrupting the Kavanagh confirmation hearing no one expressed any outrage ) and (2) they was doing it for the wrong political cause and beliefs to expect the tolerance and understanding given to the others engaged in similar behavior.
To be clear I don’t see the capital invasion as being a big deal. I would lot rather see BLM ransack the capital than a random business district. No one’s life got destroyed in the capital by those who invaded the capital. Plenty of peoples lives got destroyed by BLM riots
<i>A Capitol Police officer has died from injuries suffered at the hands of Trump’s terrrorist mob.</i>
First of all based on the what the liberal has been telling me all summer , they were no terrorists mob.
They were a group of “protesters” and “resisters”.In fact unlike the liberal belief that the only difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter is which side you are on, the actual difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter is that freedom fighters limit their actions to government representatives and property whereas terrorists focus on civilians and civilian owned property. As such the liberal publications which were defending violence all summer should have a much easier time defending ransacking the capital than a random business district. But of course they won’t because the people in the capital are the wrong ethnicities and have the wrong political views.
Secondly there is obviously a lot of garbage and coverup so I’m not sure the police were innocent. Aside from the unarmed women who was shot in a manner guaranteed to kill her when there plenty of police who could have subdued her in other ways I don’t believe for a second that we are being told the truth about the three other people who died on capital hill. Three people don’t just suddenly die from medical emergencies at the same time and place without foul play.
There is an obvious effort to block information. A lot of the footage of the unarmed women getting shot dead in the capital was removed from Youtube. The police are not getting the benefit of the doubt this time.
But as above we are talking about the people with the wrong ethnicities and wrong political views so everything the liberals told us all summer about rioting/protesting and correct police behavior is now out the window. Some of the liberal publications even deleted their prior articles supporting violence. So did some of their politicians. AOC’s director of communications asked Twitter to BAN ACCOUNTS for merely quoting a tweet from her that seems to condone political violence.
But don’t worry. All liberal articles and tweets supporting violence and police hatred will be back up the next time BLM riots
Very few people ANYWHERE join public protests on a constant basis out of pure altruism.
Different people have different motives. On the online world for example there is an endless slew of protesting on social media that seems to be motivated by self aggrandizing and self righteous motives.
But the end of the day joining groups that are constantly protesting or criticizing other peoples behaviors is rarely done for altruistic motives and NEVER brings out good in anyone.
Unfortunately we are in a bad situation in the liberal run areas. If we fight back we will be blamed.
To be clear I do think we should fight back. In fact I remember back in the early 80s when the situation was worse than today there was a major fight in my Brooklyn neighborhood. A then (niftar long ago) member of the Moetzas Gedolay H’Torah told people afterwards that they should have called the JDL . On Shabbos. And despite that gadol’s personal general vehement opposition to the JDL. (Had the JDL limited itself exclusively to self defense he would not have opposed them) The Chaptzems were also a very effective crime fighter.
But that was then when the police were apathetic towards fighting crime but didn’t arrest those who did so themselves.
Today when guilt and punishments are determined by skin color, frum people are considered guilty until proven innocent it’s not so simple to fight back without making the situation worse.
A guy with an incredible ability to make people go nuts, either over him or against him.
It depends on the degree of hatred and personal gain people having from hating Trump.
The Lincoln Project is working very hard and making a lot of money off creating a Trump type McCarthyism where even long after he is gone they can still profit off keeping him around as a boogeyman. All Republican candidates are accused of being “Trumpists” that have to be liquidated.No matter What the Republicans do The Lincoln Project will insist they are fighting “Trumpism”
For people with less profit motive or less TDS it will depend on how successful Trump’s greater enemies are keeping him in the public sphere and as a focus of public attention.
The most complex and multidimensional person to have ever been a US president
It would be more accurate to say Corona Anti-Semitism (again)
No other would have the ethnicity of those who allegations are being made against so public.
(This is actually one of the oldest form of anti-Semitism all the way back to the Sar Hamaskin in last week’s Parsha וְשָׁ֨ם אִתָּ֜נוּ נַ֣עַר עִבְרִ֗י עֶ֚בֶד לְשַׂ֣ר הַטַּבָּחִ֔ים)
Sukkos time when corona numbers were high in Jewish neighborhoods the government was saying that we’re to blame, we’re spreading the virus, they targeted us for all sorts of harassments. etc.
Now that a vaccine is here they say how terrible it is that people of that color and other minority groups got so much corona, society is to blame and those groups (bit of course not us) deserve priority in getting the vaccine because of how much they suffered.
<i>Besides there is no way the senior pastor of the Ebenezer Baptist Church is going to be anti-Israel or anti-Semitic. Martin Luther King, Sr. and Jr. were pastors there! The congregation would not tolerate it.</i>
This is about the same as saying “there is no way a country as cultured and tolerant as Germany would engage in or tolerate such behavior”
Not to necessarily compare the circumstances.Only the sentiment.
I’m guessing this is a troll post (and I am a Trump voter) but to clarify one thing Chazal did not “decree that Jewish babies should be named after Alexander the Great” because he was such a Ohev Yisroel.
The Gemora (Yoma 69A) which discusses the meeting of Shimon Hatzadik and Alexander the Great does say they made a Yom Tov after meeting him (because they prevailed upon him not to destroy the Beis HaMikdash) but makes no reference to any takona to name anyone after after him.
The earliest source for such a takana is Josephus who says they made that offer to him to avoid offending him when they refused to accept a golden sculpture of him that he wanted to donate to the Beis HaMikdash.
As the posuk says Lovah Rosha V’Lo Yishalem.
Candidates who get into office by forgiving such debt and giving out other money and of course forcing other people to pay for it is one explanation the Gemara gives for Chesed Lumim Chatas
Whatever many faults Trump has, ruining the GOP is not among them.
The mainstream media can tell you Trump turned most Republican politicians into lying sycophants (in real life I never met anyone who uses the word sycophant)all they want but in real life there is little difference in the typical Republicans politicians behavior in 2015 and 2020.
As far as turning Republican voters into conspiracy theorists it was the Democrats who spent years on Russian collusion and other such conspiracy theories and indictments. (I do agree that many people have gone nuts with Trump Derangement Syndrome but for the most part they aren’t Republicans and it was the media, not Trump, who caused that syndrome)
As far as the general state of the GOP after Trump goes. Unlike twelve years ago when Obama first won noone is writing the obituary for the GOP after Biden won. No Republican presidential candidate in the past sixty years has gotten such a high percentage of minority voters. If anything Trump has shown that the predictions of the GOP demise due to the decreasing percentage of white voters is not true
Never Trump Republicans seem to fall into one of two groups
(1)Opportunist Jerks: Take for example, The Lincoln Project. There is nothing ideological about them at all. They are career propagandists and PR people who correctly realized they can make a lot more money being anti Trump than pro Trump . Their ads have zero substance and basically just say “We hate Trump” Most of their ads are so devoid of substance that you can take the exact same ad, flip the names and a few pictures and use it as an anti democrat ads (they almost always run anti-ads. they almost never actually support any explicit policy) There is no way they can credibly claim they went after moderate and anti-Trump Republicans like Susan Collins because of anti-Trump ideology. Trump is also far from the first person they stabbed in the back when it suited their purposes.
or(2)People who have a very one dimensional view of Trump: He is a not a nice guy. That overrides any and all good he may do. They don’t want to think or are in denial about any good Trump may have done. For example I asked a very prominent frum anti-Trump activist about the fact that had Hillary Clinton been president, last week’s supreme court ruling about Cuomo closing shuls would have been very different. In an answer that sounded like cognitive dissonance to me he answered that he never opposed any of Trump’s supreme courts picks. Technically speaking that may be true. Practically speaking it isn’t. Another frum anti Trumper vehemently denied to me that Trump had any connection to the Israel-UAE-Bahrain peace deal. Those people may not be liberal. They don’t seem to realize the consequences of a Joe Biden presidency.
The question cannot be answered with general terms and rules because it would depend on
(1)who and what are the current other options
and
(2)how much of his personal faults are being kept personal and how much of his personal faults and views is he trying to force on everyone else
In the memory of recently departed David Dinkins I will say that I would a prefer a corrupt and somewhat anti-semitic person who strongly values law and order over a nice guy like David Dinkins for mayor any day. The Crown Heights pogrom would not have happened had the former been mayor. It did happen with the latter.
It looks what usually happens during times of turmoil: People vote against those who are currently in control.
Trump lost because he was the guy in power .
The Democrats lost a lot of seats (particularly on the state level) becuase they were the ones in control there.
Midterm elections the Democrats are going to lose more seats. Don’t blame Biden. (I’m sure the pundits will) The party in the White House has almost seats during for the past hundred years. this time it will be worse because the US will still be dealing with the aftereffects of the Corona lockdowns
If Joe Biden can run at 77 years why can’t Trump run at 78?
Dai L’boh min h’Din Lehious Kanodin
It is super unlikely that he will do so. He will be 78 and have a lot less of a chance of winning than he did in 2020.
It is primarily his opponents who based on (like usual) anonymous source who are claiming he is looking to do so.For a simple reason.For their purposes and to ensure party loyalty , his opponents need Trump to stick around as the boogeyman.
Randi Weingarten is a lot bigger threat to public school parents than Yeshivas.
With all her many faults when she headed the NYC UFT she didn’t pick fights with Yeshivas
She focused exclusively on lowering the quality of education in the public school system
It depends on what you intend to write.
If it is going to be another one of those “I was a dumb Bais Yaakov girl and now I’m so smart and realize…” not only won’t I read it,forget about me, do yourself a favor and don’t start the blog.
In fact if you intend on any type of condescending or lecturing type of message please spare us.
I don’t mean to accuse you of either but that is what most opinion blogs are. Or at least end up becoming
If however you have something of value to share, an inspirational message, an insight that will benefit people, non subjective knowledge that people who aren’t going through the same trajectory of life will benefit from etc. then I would read your blog and look forward to it.
Let me know when you start email address removed, sorry
This isn’t unique to the frum.
Pretty much all non-Islamic religious groups strongly support Trump nd the Republicans.
Even the Amish who don’t vote unless they feel threatened by a candidate supported Trump.
It’s not really Trump support as much as the recognition that the Democrats are becoming increasingly hostile to religion so it is of prime importance to have Republicans in office.
The Muslims are the exception because liberal beliefs require making an exception to their general view of religion and respecting Islam
The people who say they oppose Trump because of his bad influence don’t seem to grasp how much they are being influenced by a media that is very hostile to Torah and it’s values.
The media is drilling into people’s heads for the past five years about how bad Trump so that is their one dimensional perspective of him.
If everything about Trump as a person was the same but he was on the Democratic side of the equation and Mike Pence (from the most moral of all people in American politics today) was on the Republican side , the media and the people lecturing to us about how terrible Trump is now would all be enthusiastically supporting him instead.
The question of why do frum people support Trump with all his faults is hardly unique to the frum world. It is true of most non-Islamic religious groups
It’s not because anyone has illusions that he is some sort of saint. The reason they want him re-elected is that he is from the few things preventing the US from turning into quasi-socialist, anti-personal freedom, anti-religious, and even more anti-non-minority country.
Much as Trump makes fun of and insults politicians he disagrees with, he NEVER starts up with religious people, leaders, practice or belief. He also never tries to control the life of John Doe in the street who is looking to live his own life and mind his own business.
I live in the NYS area and work in NYC. Every time I turn around I read about the politicians competing to make more laws, more bans, more fees, more harassment of the working class who are not on entitlement programs and lower the quality of life.
With the exception, of course, made for illegal immigrants, criminals and LGBTs who receive obsessive government focus and concern.
And when it comes to religion and morals… To put it this way. It is a much bigger deal in the Democrat party that the governor of Virginia allegedly wore black face thirty years ago than his current support of infanticide.
Yes it would be wonderful if Trump had the personality of Ronald Reagan or even Obama. But Obama’s efforts to force Catholic employers to go against their religion providing certain employee benefits is a lot more of threat to freedom of religion than Trump’s personal failings.
Trump’s moral failings are personal. He makes no effort to force them on anyone else. The issues the frum world has with the Democrats are issues of ideology that the Democrats are actively looking to force on others.
What is Trump’s view on closing down shuls and Yeshiva in an ostensible effort to stop the spread the Covid and what are the Democrats views? Who is sending inspectors to fine CLOSED Yeshiva and Jewish (but of course not non-Jewish )owned businesses in the Red Zones.
That is why frum people vote Trump
Personal question for you Mr Slimshim1.
Do you also write such rants against people who allow their children to follow sports or even worse, other parts of the entertainment world ?
Some of the sports figures (I won’t even mention the movie stars) display a lot worse behavior than Trump. And unlike Trump they have no redeeming factors.
With all the criticism I see of frum Trump supporters claiming Trump is a bad influence his critics never rant against the entertainment world.
I’m no major Trump supporter but even the most ardent frum Trump supporters I know of don’t consider him to be a tzadik. To put it mildly. No one is putting his picture on their walls.
On a more personal note to you Mr. Slimshim1, I suspect that your hatred for Trump isn’t really because Trump is evil personified but rather because the liberal media TOLD you that he is evil personified, Meaning that you are probably someone who ingested more than a healthy share of the what our enemies in the liberal media who are also enemies of Trump say about him.
The more frum crowd is simply less aware of the sordid parts of Trump. They don’t have social media accounts, they don’t follow him on Twitter , they have no idea about what the enemies of Torah who are also enemies of Trump are saying. Their new source is The Yated.
You probably be better off Chinuch wise following their example.
This is a general issue with secular Jews. Not just Tikkun Olam
As the well known writer Herman Wouk put it.
“In most non-Orthodox synagogues, a Rabbi’s sermon really boils down to a digest of whatever ideas are currently being pushed by the liberal publications with some vague and distorted references to Torah thrown in”
<i>though the Satmar Rav did say that if the Zionists went to the Nations saying they want out, then the Nations would find a way to figure that out while protecting our brethren there.</i>
This sounds like Motzey Shem Ra on the Satmar Rebbe. He couldn’t possibly have been so naive.
If the “Zionists” went to the Nations saying they want out, the Nations would not care about protecting our brethren there more that they did any other time in history.
anonymous Jew:
When was the last time you checked and WHERE?
Having read through some (not all) of the book I won’t debate the points and beliefs of the author despite my disagreement with most (not all) of them. Instead, I’ll share the general feeling the book left me with.
The Chazon Ish who he named the book after a conversation of his also said that you have to realize not to fight the wrong battle. (That was his reason for dropping the fight against the use of Modern Ivrit)
It is simply a shame that the author spent so much effort on it.
(One ironic haskific issue with the book is that the author engages in the same revisionist history that the militant atheistic anti religious crowd does in order to claim to Kochey V’Otzem Yodey was the reason for Israel’s military victories. Particularly in the six day war)
The book does not clearly define what “Zionism” is or who the “Zionists” are. As such one can be left with the impression that all of those who believe in the idea of a Jewish state or those who simply were born in Israel today to non-Charieidi parents are collectively responsible for the actions of a few people that were done without the knowledge of the majority.
Or that someone born in Israel today to none-Charieidi parents shares the same values, goals, motives, and beliefs as the people who fought for the Zionist movement before the state of Israel came into existence.
That simply isn’t true. There is an anti-religious element in Israel today (particularly in the media and court systems) but most of them aren’t motivated by Zionism but rather by the same beliefs that motivate the anti-religious secular Jews in the US. Most of them are actually post Zionist and anti-Zionist. (And some are motivated by the harassment they received from groups associated with Rabbi Shapiro’s viewpoint)
Rabbi Shapiro is a brilliant person with so much to offer the frum world. In times like today when Yiddishkeit is under attack from all sides, there is so much he could accomplish for the frum world and Torah.Had he written a 1300 page book against the CURRENT enemies of Torah and their ideologies he would be from the strongest spokesman for and defenders of Torah Judaism in our time. His former website, frumteens, was a lifesaver for some. Tragically he closed that website down and chose to use his talents and energy to fight people and ideals that are long dead.
Chaval Al davdon!
Apparently many people are leaving Boro Park because according to Zillow home prices there dropped over 9% in the past year and are expected to drop another five percent over the next.
The non-Jewish neighborhoods are also seeing and looking at future declining prices but not as steep of a drop as Boro Park.
I also spoke to a frum realtor in Flatbush a while back who said that two summers was probably the peak for Flatbush. The people looking to rent or buy in Flatbush are no longer willing to pay those prices anymore.
<i>If the Israelis come up with a peace plan that the Palestinian people support in a free election, the conflict with Hamas will disappear.</i>
This is about the same as saying had the Jews figured out a way to appease the Nazis the holocaust never would have happened. The holocaust was the result of their failure to do so