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Not so simple in halacha to own a dog. Even if it were when people think of “chesed” in terms of owning dogs you see why in haskafa people are so opposed to it.
(My father asked one of the major poskim in the US 50 years about owning a dog as a pet. He said that the Mishna and later sources in halacha who say you aren’t allowed to own a dog aren’t referring to American domesticated dogs but an Erlicher Yid does not have pet dogs. Before you start spewing your daas baal habos about that realize that you don’t reach his toenails in Torah knowledge)
>>>Never do we find that Chazal collected from people or raised donations for the Yeshivos or for the Gedolim or for the Dayonim or for the Marbitzei Torah or for any position of Torah leadership or for anyone else.
Firstly I don’t think this statement is true. Who do you think was supporting the educational system set in place by Yehoshua ben Gamla? Certainly not the parents. It was made because those who had no father to teach them Torah weren’t learning anything.
Yissocher and Zevulan predate even that.
But we will put that aside and ask the oppisite. From the community that claims to oppose supporting Lomdey Torah and claims to believe that Talmidey Chachomim should have their own source of income, why has that community been such an abject failure when it come to living up to it’s own ideals? Where are the respected Talmidey Chachomim in that community who are self supporting TODAY? Why do laymen of that very community with all their talk about the value for being self supporting and not taking from others also contact elder planning lawyers to make sure it isn’t their assets that are drained if they end up in nursing homes?
Are there ANY members of that community who actually follow the Rambam of working only three hours a day and learning the rest? How about even even the oppisite? LEARNING three hours a day and working the rest? I do agree that if someone could make a living in three hours a day and learn the rest it would be better than learning and being supported or taking government assistance for most people. But as the early Achronim point out on the Rambam , in real life almost no one actually does or has the realistic theoretical ability to do so?
This would depend on where the shul is located and what is the nature of the shul. If it is an area that has other shuls , is not a minyan factory and was made for people who very much value a certain decorum during tefilah then it is their shul and they have the right to want a certain atmosphere during tefila. They are correct to say that if that is too difficult for someone then this is not the right shul for them. Begrudging them of that right is also not loving and accepting other Jews.
Without responding to everything the OP said, unlike the opinion of his wife, the Beis Hamikdash and even the Har HaBayis also had a dress code that they were VERY strict about. So if anything it would prove the opposite.
That said, I’m happy to see any Jew enter my shul. I even miss the days of when completely and obviously secular Jews would come to shul for Yizkor or to say Kaddish. Unless there is a policy against it please come to shul no matter how you are capable of dressing. I’ve davened in the frummest and most kanoish of places and seen people come in all forms of dress. No one ever says anything. Unless you are dressed offensive it’s safe to assume no one will.
“Even the classic “proofs” for Orthodox Judaism a la Rabbis Kelemen, Gottlieb, and Mechanic are passe. As an article in the Jewish Action a few months ago put it” “Proofs for the Torah?! That is so 90’s!””
I don’t know that they were even a good idea in the 90’s. I think they’re more stuck in the 60’s and 70’s when there were socially liberal, hippie baalei teshuva. That’s over. If they want to have any success today, I need to go after the weird kid with no friends who gets made fun of for wearing a MAGA hat in public. B’zman hazeh, those are the only people who are going to give up a secular life for an extremely rigid religion.It would be more accurate to say that people aren’t giving up hedonistic lifestyles no matter how much you try to reason with them. I googled this alleged recent Jewish Action article but could not find it on their website. If it does exist I’m confident it was not written in the same context as presented here The argument of “proofs of Torah don’t work” is not stuck in the 60s and 70s . That mindset is about as old as Judaism itself. Ever since then in free societies like the US people claimed that Orthodox Judaism has no answers so as truth seekers who did their own independent research they can not avoid coming to the conclusion that whatever was believed by the intelligentsia in the time and place they happened to have been was the ultimate truth. It made no difference what that belief actually was and what nonsense it is considered today. In not free societies they joined activist political and social movements who falsely promised the world will be a utopia when they take over
>>>Kiruv workers are paid. Can we follow the money?
It’s very rare for anyone to make a parnosha off Kiruv. No kollel yungerman would consider being a Kiruv worker as a future career option. Best case scenario it is a part time job. The few who do make a parnosha off Kiruv are very talented people who would have a let easier ways of making money without it . I know two children of people who were major figures in the Kiruv world. Neither of them are are in Kiruv themselves as Kiruv is not an industry you can hire your children in and anyway there isn’t enough business for them anymore . Their father’s institutions are largely defunct today. Neither of these people are known to be more talented than their fathers are. Both are mega millionaires. One of them started such a successful business that he was once featured on the cover of a major business magazine.
Most people who claim to be Jewish but aren’t halachically Jewish aren’t interested in Kiruv organizations to begin with. In general the Kiruv movement no longer has as many interested customers as they once did because secular American Jews younger than forty don’t identify as being Jewish like they did in the heyday of the Kiruv movement. Or if they do identify as being Jewish, their “Judaism” is little more than the official position of the Democratic party (that they call tikkun olam) with some holidays thrown in. Their focus and success even in the US is mostly with Israeli immigrants. The Kiruv groups also use techniques to ensure the people they are dealing with are halachically Jewish. They do not take everyone claiming to be Jewish at their word. Of sad and ironic note is that if someone claims to be Jewish and has a Jewish name like Goldberg they assume the person is NOT halachically Jewish until further verification whereas if the person has a clearly non-Jewish last name like Hendricks there is a larger likelihood the person is in fact halachically Jewish.
>>>So the zionists who scream and yell at those who disagree or dont support zionism, thrive on conflict (the holocaust and Oct 7), and curse NK, we are supposed to not hate them,
This is just another NK caricature of a made up enemy. “Zionists” do not run around screaming and yelling at non-Zionists. They do not look to attend anti-Zionist events to fight with anti-Zionist. etc. They do not thrive off the holocaust and Oct 7 (I’m not even sure what that is supposed to mean) I will not respond further to someone who is so consumed by hate that he is removed from reality.
If you have specific common incidents of “zionists” looking to stir up hate similar to the way the NK speaks at their pro Hamas rallies then I will address them if you tell me that you are looking for an answer and not just an excuse to spew more accusation about the “zionists”
Another general point to realize is that (like Chazal say about Hashem himself) people are much more accepting of the faults of people who are humble and mind their own business than people who are arrogant, self righteous, always angry, always looking to bad mouth others who thrive on conflict, aggression and incitement etc. The latter describes the NK. That is part of why they are hated so much.
The Neturei Karta and co are reshaim because they very openly rile up anti-semitic crowds and use their “Judaism” to give a hechser on people like Sinwar and their behavior. It isn’t hard to find them speaking out in support and praise of groups and people that even in the non-Jewish world are considered mass murders. They preach a new Torah that Palestinian Nationalism is Judaism. And unlike most IDF soldiers they can not even claim to be tinokos s’nisba. Although Rav Yaakov Kamenetzky said the NK is Rodfim over forty years ago, as someone who grew up reading their literature they weren’t anywhere nearly as radical back then.
>>>the Torah that kosher Jews learn protects Jews but does not protect rashayim.
Uh…. There are at least two pesukim in the Torah that say otherwise. By Sedom and the Meraglim . But that is just another part of Torah that doesn’t fit with the religion the extreme anti-Zionists preach. It is far from the only one
Not informing Hezbollah about Israel’s strike that killed Nasrallah is hardly something to give credit or thanks for. It also needs to be mentioned that Israel gave the US very short notice over concerns that the US would ruin the plan
Whatever Trump will do he won’t talking about and certainly not actually refusing to SELL arms to Israel like Biden and Harris do.
Putting that aside Trump didn’t just decide to drop Ukraine, Firstly Trump was probably right years ago when he said that Ukraine would not be in a war to begin with had they not been talking about joining NATO and that in the absence of any actual conflict moving hostile soldiers closer to a countries borders (like NATO was doing to Russia) is far more likely to cause a war than prevent one. Secondly Zelensky should have had a little more sechel and not ran around campaigning for Democrats in Pennsylvania, told the the The New yorker magazine that JD Vance is too radical etc. and then think that Trump (of all people!) is not going to go after him for it. Israel is unlikely to make the same mistakes.
As an aside the Democrats impeach Trump over a Ukraine phone call but then have the gall to bring Zelensky to essentially campaign for Harris and co in swing state Pennsylvania
>>>Calling Hezbollah a “terrorist” organization is a mistake. It is a formal armed force that is under Iran’s de facto command. They are no more terrorists the Israeli artillery or air force units – the only difference is Hezbollah primarily targets civilians,
Targeting civilians is what makes a group a terrorist group. While the far left likes to the only difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter is which side you are on, the actual differences are that (1) terrorists target civilians , freedom fighters target the opposing military (2)freedom fighters have a very clear freedom oriented demand, terrorists are more vague about what peace terms (if any) they would expect and look at everything as part of an ongoing struggle (3)terrorists do not envision a state that gives freedom to everyone who isn’t looking to opposes them . By all those definitions Hezbollah is a terrorist group
>>>Is Ukraine asking non-Jews not to come to Ukraine, too? Or only Jews?
Do you know of any non-Jewish groups looking to make a mass pilgrimage to Ukraine? Or only Jews?
To clarify my comment above. The question of listening to Gedoley Torah even when they are wrong is about halacha or Torah haskafa issues .There would be very few sources if any to listen to contemporary gedolim in the non halachic or haskfic political or social context that listening to gedolim is sometimes used these days. Let alone when you KNOW they are wrong.
The issue is a machlokes. The Chinuch on the posuk very clearly says to listen to them even you KNOW -not just think- they are wrong. Reason being better to follow them in this one mistake than risk the many mistakes if everyone did what they thought was right. Halacha L’maaseh it is also a common shaalo .e.g If you know a piece of meat is kosher or non-kosher but a Rav or Beis Din ruled otherwise are you allowed to eat it. The Minchas Elozar even goes so far as to discuss if someone knew he was innocent but Sanhedrin paskened he is chayiv misah is he allowed to run away (he says yes due to Pikuach Nefesh) Seems to me like those who say either way have legitimate sources. But perhaps this is just another area that I’m totally mistaken for not listening to people who know a lot more than me that take a clear position on this.
I don’t even get question. How does the tragic brutal murder of these hostages change the equation and situation any more than the tragic killing of Israeli soldiers does? It is true that if Israel does not give in to Hamas’s demands more of the hostages may be murdered R’L. It is true that Israel had the option to give in to whatever Hamas wanted long ago and save some more hostages. Therefore what? It was even a lot more clear before the Israeli response to October 7th started that there would be Israeli causalities fighting Hamas. Every single neutral miliary analyst back then gave us a MUCH higher estimate of what the casualty amount would be. They also told us that Israel would accomplish far less in fighting Hamas than it did. But with the exception of the pro Hamas crowd everyone agreed that it made sense for Israel to respond despite the inevitably of Israeli soldiers getting killed fighting Hamas R’L. It was understood that not doing so will cause even more casualties R’L over the long term. How does the murder of six hostages change that equation in the slightest?
>>>Decades ago, the Satmar Rav wrote that if the Zionists actually cared about Jewish lives, then the Zionists could go to the UN (yes, that UN) and tell them that they want out, and that the UN should figure out a way to keep all the Jews safe
Can you give the exact source for where the Satmar Rav wrote that nonsense.?
Back in the days that I was faithfully believed in all the anti-Zionist rhetoric my first seeds of doubt were created when I read In one of the Satmar Rebbe’s seforim his opinion that Israel did not need to fight to the six day war because their adversaries weren’t really interested in war. But of course my real disillusionment really kicked in when I came in more contact with people like your self
>>> The Brisker Rav noted that the Zionist State is the greatest achievement of the satan since the eigel.
The Brisker Rav never said anything of the sort. I learned in Brisk for three years and never heard anyone make such a claim. It is only people who made a new religion based on their opposition to Zionism who could believe such a thing. Yeruvem Ben Navat forcing the majority of Eretz Yisroel to worship actual idols? Menashe burning every single sefer Torah in Eretz Yisroel? More recently the Soviet Union shmading three million Yidden? etc.? Nu, still not as bad as what the Zionist did. But only according to those who believe in the new religion of hating Zionists. No Torah Jew could believe such a thing. Not only that the Brisker Rav was of the opinion that the anti-Zionist view that attributes all Zionist successes to the Satan borders of kefira R’L. It believes the Sotton has independent power .
People drive dangerously and nothing happens to them either . Not every sakana ends in disaster and sometimes people lose zchoyus as the result of placing themselves in sakana.
שומר פתאים ה׳ according to some is only about a danger that isn’t apparent but known through statistical data. According to others it only applies to a danger that is COMMONLY ignored. Neither of them apply to traveling to enter a war zone. Even if that war zone is Uman.
I grew up very anti-Zionist. But as mentioned on many previous threads I became disillusioned with that haskafa years ago, partly as a result of independently coming to the same conclusion as the Chazon Ish that the extreme anti-Zionists are fighting the wrong battle (and today the wrong people) and partly due to my disgust with how confrontational and consumed by hatred the extreme anti-Zionists always are.
After October 7th my opinion about Zionism remained the same. My opposition to the more extreme anti-Zionists has grown . The more I see from them the less I think of them.
>>>Smerel,
This is why I posted this in a thread about “Unpopular opinions” It’s a MYTH people’s name changed at Ellis Island. Do you or “people you know” have any proof? I highly doubt it.Huh? It’s obvious that names were changed at Ellis Island. What more proof do you want me to give than that my grandfather had to change his family name? He had cousins who emigrated to Canada that still use their original. To pick a random name that I picked before why are there no Greenmans in Eretz Yisroel and no Greinamans in the US ?
>>>Everyone who has claimed & some still claim that “Jews (or Antisemitic officials) changed their last name at Ellis Island is very mistaken as it almost never happened
My grandfather changed his name to a more Americanized one due to the insistence of the Ellis Island officials. I know plenty of other such people.
It’s not for no reason that in Eretz Yisroel people have names like Greinaman and Shteinman while in American there are only Greenmans and Steinmans
“Zionists” are the Emmanuel Goldstein of the Coffee Room
>>>It’s different if a man says he doesn’t want to sit next to a woman as opposed to the opposite. Men are perceived as being perverts so women can’t control that so all they can control is sitting somewhere else, they expect the perv to control themself
Huh? So when a “perv” asks to be seated elsewhere in an effort to control himself he is told he can’t make that request but when a woman deicides the guy sitting next to her is a perv who can’t control himself she has the right to sit elsewhere to prevent him from acting out? Why do woman have exclusive rights in deciding how men should act or can not act when it comes to seating on planes?
>>>It seems the chazal allowed it because they thought lice do not come from male and female, but come from dirt or dust, which has been proven to be incorrect by modern day research.
Chazal talk about the eggs of lice too. (ביצי כנים)
To give but one example ונעשה אבימלך וכל נקבות ביתו אפילו עד ביצי כנים עקרות (Pirkey D’Rav Eliezer 26:8)
Lice do not need to mate continuously to lay fertilized eggs that will hatch. One mating lasts for a life time. Therefore their reproduction is considered being created from the dirt they live on from an halachic status.
The above is but one of the many approaches to this question. Experience has taught me not to discuss this online or it will attract OTD proselytizers like flies to manure so I will post further on this thread
It really depends on what the chances of divorce versus remaining single forever are but as someone who never an older single or divorced B’H I say go with the chance of divorce any day . Look at the average fifty year old single and the average fifty year divorcee. The fifty year divorcee. seems to be in a better (general) life situation than the fifty year old single . Hands down. Plus the fifty year old single is always dreaming about what his life would be like if he were married. The fifty year divorcee who went into marriage knowing there was a high chance of divorce has no reason to dream about what would happened had he married someone else
>>>It would seem, though, that they are clearly against a clear gemara Baba Basra Daf 7 (Yes, yesterday’s daf) that Talmidei Chachamim are exempt from building walls, etc., for shemira because the Toraa itself is a shemira.
Not so simple to begin with . As the Poskim say the Gemora is discussing a situation where the Talmidei Chachamim are saying that on our end you don’t have to build the wall if you don’t want to. We are relying on our Torah to protect us and don’t need it. If they aren’t saying that then they are obligated to pay like everyone else (see the Shaarim Metzuynim B’halacha on those dafim)
>>>You cannot unconditionally believe everything that is written in books. In this case, these stories probably reflect the biases of the author, Jonathan Rosenblum
The Hebrew book on RSFM, Shlichusa D’Rachmna, written for and by they type of crowd who would not approve of such an haskafa says very similar things. So did a Jewish Observer article written in the 1980s by a talmid of RSFM who remembered him saying such things
In October it would have been insensitive unless there was a lot of Tehillim being said. At this point not anymore. Are there no celebrations being held in Israel? No (secular) Demonstrations? Is this a party or a concert for the sake of gorging yourself or a fundraiser to support Torah which in turn supports the world? Is there ANY Jewish group that has completely stopped making events?
If you personally are not listening to music these days because of the war in Eretz Yisroel then maybe you should not have attended. But if you are you have no business complaining about this event
Most Gazans support Hamas. There are very , very, very, righteous gentiles there. If there were Hamas would not exist. The Gazans are not some pushover group that is willing to docilly accept a government they don’t want. They aren’t a risk or avoidant of armed conflict group either.
That said, in fairness there is no comparison between Gaza and Germany. For one the Nazis allowed a lot more free speech than Hamas does. and monitored the behavior of those who were of Aryan descent far less than Hamas. In Germany if someone of Aryan descent was making a barbeque and spent the time sounding off against the Nazis, nothing would have happened to him, his phones would not have been tapped afterwards. They certainly did not tap phones of random Aryans. That isn’t the situation in Gaza.
Secondly, virtually every righteous gentile that I have read about was either (1) anyway a resistance fighter whose life was in constant or (2)someone who was risking their life for a long term friend or neighbor, not some random Jew who knocked on their door or (3)someone who headed a large organization with little government supervision that enabled them to save Jews. How many Gazans fit into any of those three profiles?
Trump and Biden being the nominees is not the real problem the US is facing. It is only a symptom of it .
>>>Had Germany surrendered, conditionally, in July 1944 (as would have happened had Rommel replaced Hitler as Fuhrer had the July 20 putsch been successful), perhaps a million Jewish lives would have been saved
Even assuming that assessment is true were HAMAS to surrender conditionally many Jewish lives would be saved too. But they aren’t offering any type of conditional surrender that would come together with an permanent end to hostilities. As such there is no reason not to demand an unconditional surrender from them.
>>>And arguably insistence of unconditional surrendered discouraged many Germans from supporting the various anti-Hitler conspiracies.
Again even if true in the current situation the oppisite. The longer the war continues and the more Gazans suffer the less motive they have to support Hamas in the future. If the war stops and Hamas claims victory (which they will do no matter how it ends – the question is how convincing of a case they can make ) they will have a much easier time recruiting in the future. Both in Gaza and from their foreign supporters. Even Iran and Qatar may have second thoughts before pouring billions more dollars into them if all they can show is the majority of the buildings being destroyed and 40,000 dead Gazans
>>>Israel has room to negotiate something gets the surviving hostages (if any) back, disarms Hamas, and leads to Gaza being controlled by someone who won’t be sponsoring terrorism.
Who are those negotiations supposed to be with? Who that has ability is willing to do so?
Among other things hating Trump is far more of a core essential obsessive belief among Democrats than Hunter Biden is among Republicans. For some hating is beyond politics. It is a part of their identity. Republicans are more likely to start threads about he is treated unfairly than threads about Biden.
UJM
I won’t argue with you but only repeat that your knowledge about YU seems limited to hearsay coming from it’s opponents.
As a ceasefire plan it is ridiculous for the reasons mentioned in the OP . As a peace plan if Hamas is on board then it is a wonderful. But of course Hamas is NOT on board
The whole way the trial was conducted remined me of the posuk:
וְע֥וֹד רָאִ֖יתִי תַּ֣חַת הַשָּׁ֑מֶשׁ מְק֤וֹם הַמִּשְׁפָּט֙ שָׁ֣מָּה הָרֶ֔שַׁע
And that is assuming Trump IS in fact technically guilty
>>>Maybe Trump is being paid back for his role in that wrongful conviction.
Trump had no role whatsoever in that conviction. He took out ads asking that NYS reinstate the death penalty at the time. The innocence of the Central Park Five (who had previously admitted their guilt) is not a reason to retract support for the death penalty. Trump taking out ads for it did not sway public opinion let alone the jury that the specific defendants on trail were guilty
>>>Much as JTS moved to the left far enough to leave Orthodoxy, YU too has consistently moved further and further to the left, with the passage of time, that some of them already have a toehold outside of Orthodoxy.
You seem clueless about YU. Whatever issues you may have with them (I’m confident you never discussed their haskafa or anything else about them with an intelligent person affiliated with them) their current leadership is a lot less controversial and definitely to the right of who and what it was forty years ago.
You can read my posts about him and it should be clear that I’m no Trump supporter. To put it mildly. This is still a major defeat or the US a whole. It’s descent into banana republic-dom is complete
Or to put it in a liberal language. New York is Alabama 1955 and so is America
>>>“Modern Orthodoxy” is today’s haskala, as it happens.
Also, real chassidus is, of course, not “feel-good Judaism”, as anyone who has learned chassidic Torah can attest.Mr Hakatan:
I’m not saying chassidus is “feel-good Judaism”, but you certainly do not practice “feel-good Judaism”.
Your posts are also full of anger and self righteous outrage along with vitriolic condemnation of others. It is very not healthy b’ruchnius or even b’gasmius to follow such Judaism.
And as one major gadol once out it “When all a brand of Judaism have to offer is condemnation of others you know that it is bankrupt”
>>>“Since the destruction of the Beis Hamikdash, I doubt that Jews have assimilated more and abandoned the Torah more, than in US of A”.
Pure ignorance.
>>>Also, there is a difference between respecting and honoring.
It’s safe to say that Eliyohu Hanavi running in front of the Rosha Achav was both respecting and honoring him.
The posuk which says לֹֽא־תְתַעֵ֣ב מִצְרִ֔י
כִּי־גֵ֖ר הָיִ֥יתָ בְאַרְצֽוֹ is actually from the sources Chazal give for Hakoras HaTov. Period. Not only for the country you live in. Were the Egyptians such Tzadikm all the time Klal Yisroel was there ?>>>You seem to be under a misapprehension of what constitutes a conspiracy theory. etc
You are saying the exact same thing everyone else who believes in conspiracy theories says too . They all say “we assessed the evidence and came to this conclusion. You only believe otherwise because that is what society has told you “
I think frum people should be showing hakaros hatov. Years ago I used to make it my business to attend memorial days parades and thank the veterans. In Dorash Moshe there is speech given by Rav Moshe Feinstein in honor of July 4th. Today a similar speech on July 4th from a major gadol would be unthinkable.
But it’s not only the frum world where the attitude of appreciation to the US has changed America has become so polarized, there is so much anti America sentiment among the non-Jews that memorial day is little more than any other secular holiday like presidents day that is just ignored in the context of having meaning by everyone Jew and non-Jew alike.
48 year the US centennial was a major celebration year. (look at the quarters) In two years from now is the Semiquincentennial (250 years of the US) There are no plans for celebration. There are no bipartisan committees (remember those) working on making it a memorable event.
The frum world is not going to show more appreciation than the non-Jews do
First of all the OP is using the standard logic common among anti-semites. If some Jews did something wrong then it must be that the “Jewish community” is guilty of it.
Secondly, no, my blood does not boil after seeing someone who you can be almost certain was aware that he should not be there walk into a crowd of police in riot gear getting knocked to the floor. Where else in the world would a frum person do something similar? You act like an idiot you get treated like one. The fact that people like him went to Meron shows that even they with all lack of respect for the law and safety they do not believe that you a religious Jew, are an object to be smashed and kicked, given the chance. Otherwise they would have stayed home.
You provide zero evidence to say the police and the IDF are all the same. But I’ll end with this thought. even a Rosha like Achav was praised by Chazal for self sacrifice in a battle to save others. Even though he was told by the novi not to engage in that battle to begin with
>>>It’s the same mindset that leads to any sort of conspiratorial thinking.
Quite an ironic comment coming from someone like yourself
People like yourself who believe that the alleged then prevalent Greek thinking had an influence on Birchas Hasacher or that Lag Baomar was most likely not Rashbi’s birthday as this tradition seems to be based on nothing more than a typo are openly believing in and promoting conspiracy theories…
I no Lubavitcher but I understand the point of view of the 6th Rebbe about Daf Yomi. I heard from elderly Chabad Chasidim who actually knew him that he did not advocate it because he felt that the mass learning of Daf Yomi would replace the type of learning that had been the common approach for hundreds of years in Eastern Europe. There were different groups for people of different abilities and inclination. There was a chevra shas, a chevra mishnoyis, a chevra ein yaakov, a chevra halacha etc. etc. He was uncomfortable with the promotion of the mass learning of Daf Yomi which (would have) replace(d) those groups. On the flip side he did not oppose Daf Yomi . Had Daf Yomi been another group associated with Chevra Shas he would have supported it. He never said his concerns mentioned above publicly because then people would (incorrectly) say “The Lubavitcher Rebbe opposed Daf Yomi”
Even though his concerns may have been valid in the 1940s today the chevra shas, chevra mishnoyis, chevra ein yaakov, chevra halach etc. are anyway long gone. If someone feels he will accomplish more by learning something other than Daf Yomi, then he should go ahead and do so. But the intrinsic concern the 6th Rebbe had is no loner relevant
As far as the 7th Rebbe and his approach goes … I’ll repeat something else my friend father was once told by the 6th Rebbe. “Chasidus can bring a person to very high madrogos but only if he keeps himself tied down to this world by learning gemora, rashi and tosofos” Enough said
>>>whatever “anti-torah blogs” you are referring to, they likely don’t have much of a market for those who aren’t initially acquainted with the concepts they are dismantling.
And they have even less of a market among those who are actually acquainted with the concepts they are attempting to dismantle. Their target audience is those who have vague knowledge but no actual in depth knowledge of what they are discussing.
>>>Smerel, NK might not do kiruv (i have no idea if they do or not) , but their presence and their dress might serve as examples for these kids that you could be super religious and fit their twisted political agenda
If anything the NK presence on college campuses and elsewhere is a replica in the US of their shmad campaign in Eretz Yisroel. Take a guy name Adam. He is a sincere Jewish student with a strong Jewish identity and some sort of interest in following Judaism. IOW the target group for campus kiruv. He like most people in his demographic is deeply disturbed over Jews being killed in Eretz Yisroel and Arab terrorists. He sees Jews with long beards and peyos ,who to him look like the epitome of Orthodox Jews, coming out in support of those murderers and their goals. Is he now going to be more likely or less likely to be interested in Torah True Judaism?
Now take Adriana. She is a completely secular Jew whose only reference to her Judaism is when she says “As a Jew I condemn Israel for…” Her only connection to Jewish groups are anti-Israel groups. Her perception of Judaism is some sort of Tikkun Olam which means whatever is written on the op-ed pages of the liberal publications. Which of course requires her to be anti-Israel and pro-Palestine . As above I was told by two people involved in campus kiruv that such people don’t go near them other than for possible harassment purposes. Adriana sees Jews with long beards and peyos ,who to her look like the epitome of Orthodox Jews, coming out in support of Palestinian Nationalism and saying exactly like her that “Judaism” requires them to support Palestinian Nationalism. They make no other reference to Judaism. Will that interest her in Torah True Judaism or will she say that since even those Jews equate Palestinian Nationalism with Judaism that must be what Judaism really is ?
>>>unfortunately their campus rabbis are typically modern orthodox or chabad, which make Israel advocacy and hasbara a huge part of their kiruv.
I know two campus rabbis both of whom say (1)they avoid all political conversation (most kiruv organizations try to) and (2)other than harassments they have never seen any interest from students who are involved in anti-Israel activity.
>>>I’m talking about the less than 10% of college jews who are not pro israel; they are a considerable population. And if NK makes even one of them interested in authentic yiddishkeit, then that’s a positive.
The NK has zero interest in Kiruv. Even they don’t claim anyone became interested in Torah because of their promotion of Palestinian Nationalism and claiming that is Judaism. On the flip side they have been engaging in a campaign of shmad even since the state of Israel came into existence. Their behavior makes Torah true Jews seem so detestable who can know how many people they have turned off from it R’L? Simple proof. Take me personally. Some of the zealots here consider me to be a Zionist. (I don’t consider myself to be one) ) How did I become one when I grew up in a very anti-Zionist background? The answer is that having lived in Meah Shearim for three years and seeing the behavior of extreme anti-Zionists.
Or to quote Rav Shlomo Pappenheim (spokesman for the Edah Hachereidis) “Violence on our part causes hatred of chareidim which turns into hatred of our religion and eventually leads to hatred kiveyachol of the One Above. … I can say unequivocally that a chiloni who gets hit by a stone on Shabbos is never going to do teshuvah.”