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@Dr Pepper.
First of all, congrats on finally calling him Reb Eliezer. Secondly, FOr you to say that he “publically disgraces Hashem and his Torah” is such hyperbole that you should be ashamed to write it. Seriously, it’s just dumb.
I still stand by what I said, because you’re still exhibiting the same behaviors. You still think that somehow, every single thing a Republican says is Torah, and that anyone who says “wait a minute, this actually isn’t the hashkafa of Yiddishkeit,” or, “I prefer not to vote/agree for your preferred candidate/your pet issue” is a kapo, a self-hating Jew, apikorus, etc. (just review all the names you and your ilk throw at people) andthat their Rabbanim are “Rabbi Sally” or “Avi Weiss” etc.. It’s just exceptionally krum and sad.
The Gemara I quoted was the gemara that quotes an Amorah who says that the “Bavliem” (Babylonians) are fools, because the stand up for Sifrei Torah, but not for Talmedei Chachamim. Read into it what you will.
@dr pepper ”
“Standing up out of respect for someone who knows as much Torah as you claim he does yet votes Democrat is a disgrace to Hashem and the Torah. If you’ve davened with him more times than you can count can you let us all know he if steps out for שביעי in אחרי מות?”I have a shulchan Aruch and a chumash. It says you’re meant to stand up for a Talmud Chacham, and even an old man who isn’t a Talmid Chacham.
I Don’t know you personally, but The fact that you cam up with this comment shows that politics and pop culture has skewed your mind to the point where you seriously believe those halachos don’t matter, and that your made up caveat is actually what the torah meant.Hanei Bavle Tipshai.
@gadolhadofi you can make a point without bashing reb Lazer, a man who you would ( hopefully) Stand up for out of respect if you met him in real life, not only because of basic derech eretz since he likely has multiple decades if not more on you, but because of his knowledge of Torah. I’ve davened in the same shul as him more times than I can count, and the man has seriously forgotten more torah then you’ve learnt in your life.
Sorry that politics has poisoned your jewish critical thinking skills, but “vehadarta penei zakein” is still a mitzvah in the torah, whether he agrees with your sociopolitical outlook or not
@brunfin, the style of parenting you are mentioning is twisted logic.
Children don’t become better people because their parents ” tried to make their relationship with their kids greater and greater. ZERO criticism.”. I’ve seen those children. They become, for the most part, self-absorbed, narcissistic, and immature adolescents, who melt at even the slightest adversity. I’ve seen plenty of kids like that off the derech.
They can’t hold down a job because they balk at even the slightest restrictions their boss puts on them, they have difficulty dealing with spousal relationships because they have been fed “YOU’RE THE BESTEST!!!” their whole life and are too arrogant to be humble and build a two-way giving relationship.
I’d also like to mention that “No rules, no boundaries” is a disaster for the other children in the house who see behaviors that are inappropriate. And I know that you didn’t explicitly say “No rules or boundaries” but that is inherent in the “zero criticism” part. Because guess how that child is going to view that rule of needing unfiltered internet? as a criticism. “I love you and think you’re a wonderful person, but you need to wear a skirt in the house” WILL be viewed by them as you not accepting them. In fact, the whole “Just show them you love and accept them, without any rules or boundaries” mehalech is built on this wishful and fanciful idea that somehow pumping a kid up , AND JUST THINKING THEY’RE THE BEST!!!!!” will melt away all the other issues a child has.
Pretty immature when you have to resort to ad hominem attacks (Let me know if she agrees or not) instead of engaging in a civil conversation. But I can erect caricatures of people who disagree with me and bash them to a pulp too if that’s what you want, here goes.
“Ben Shapiro isn’t a posek hador, Not everything you heard an edgy neocon Right-wing edgelord say is Torah MiSinai, and as far as I know I don’t base my feelings on abortion or other subjects on Christianity like you do. At least I don’t claim evangelical Christian hardline positions are Torah like you do. I don’t think supporting gun culture is hashkafically proper, and neither is supporting candidates who are personally mushchasim. You must hate the tannaim who established socialist policies such as burying everyone in plain wood caskets, and you would’ve felt right at home in hyper-capitalist Sedom and Amora”
Dude, paragraphs are your friend
@dr pepper, You said ALL THE MORE SO for voting Democrat, which implies a kal vachomer “Someone who eats tarfu or is mechalel shabos is not frum KAL VECHOMER someone who votes democrat”
Again, that’s deranged. That means you’ve sold your soul to politics.
A large segment of the tri-state area takes handouts from the government. That in your opinion makes them pasul for eidus. In your crooked world, someone who has hakaras hatov for those who gave them programs is worse than one who does not.
INNER FLAME?
’m on fire… I’m on fire… I’m on fire
Can’t tame a flame
Flying through like an aero plane
Can’t pin it down
Shining light all around.Your soul inside
It’s a flame it’s from on high
Can’t stop the heat
Burning burning up the beat.Your soul could warm
The coldest heart
So let the fire start….I’m on fire head to toe
Gotta let it shine
And let it flow.That’s it, I’m running through town in my underwear.
I want to be real and true to myself…
“רבותי, if someone messes up a little over here or there- they’re still Frum, but if someone ר״ל purposely violates שבת, if someone purposely eats טרפות, he’s taking down his sign”.
How much more so someone who actively supports a political party that wants to destroy the תורה and promotes relationships that the Torah call an abomination.”
You just implied voting for Democrats is worse than beiong mechallel Shabbos or eating tarfus. That’s sick, dude.
“On a similar note- the משנה in ראש השנה states that a gambler is disqualified from being an עד in בית דין since he can be easily bribed. Do you think that nowadays the משנה would include someone who votes democrat just to get some extra handouts? If they’re willing to throw the תורה under the bus for a couple extra bucks what wouldn’t they do for money?”
Nice to know you’ve literally pasuled the entire tri-state area from being eidem. But I wouldn’t agree with your chap, no.
@Dr. Pepper, Which Rav did you discuss this definition of “Frum” with?
@Dr Pepper
Do you get this worked up when it comes to people talking during davening too?
@AAQ His rationale would be that campaigning is not for him, and that although he can still be president, campaigning requires a certain charisma and false exuberance that he can’t promise to be able to display.
And you definitely can ride abortion to victory, the Dems did it in 2022
@by1212 Reb Lazer is an elderly man, and if you would go to Agudah of Staten Island during the Rav’s speech you’d see he has Torah at his fingertips.
A little derech erretz would be nice
So Chananya, What you’re telling me is that there is a chareidi wine store in a chareidi neighborhood that specializes in SELLING KOSHER WINES AND LIQUORS, AND THE CUSTOMERS ARE CHAREIDIM!!!?????
Stop the presses, hold the back page!
Gretchen Whitmer would be a safe consensus, and would be able to be a good face for what is the Democrat’s strongest weapon against the GOP – Abortion.
Gavin Newsom is popular, is articulate, and -even though it shouldn’t matter- he has the Bill Clinton and Barack Obama charisma.
Joe Biden would still be president even if he wasn’t running. He’d be stepping down as CANDIDATE, not President.
1. I’m not avoiding any question. Family size is not an indicator of a level of materialism. The norm in Chasidish and yeshivish circles is also probably closer to 6 or 7, and is trending is lower. Most couples getting married are starting off on birth control, or start after kid number one. The gap between child #1 and #2 is widening in all but the most intense families.
2. I’ll point out what was pointed out before. They don’t exist any longer, mostly because of something else that is becoming increasingly less common in heimish circles – listening to rabbonim. In MO circles, the rav of the shul is listened to and respected more. There may be differing philosophies in what constitutes a shaila, but when they ask, or when the rav says something, it’s followed.
3. Still not sure what the dancing donkeys the amount of tuition says about a community’s level of materialism other than to say it values education more. But please elaborate. And I know from personal experience that they do accept that little tuition
4. Have you ever driven down Ave I? or J? or M, N, O, P, etc.?
5.OOT people (who aren’t the “Yeshivish” or “Chasidish” people the conversation is talking about) coming to shop for staples in BP because it’s cheaper to buy in BP doesn’t negate the point that the standard of living of the people who LIVE in BP, Flatbush THEMSELVES is insanely high
@ujm I apologize greatly for putting your statements in quotes instead of italicizing. It’s been years since I’ve been active on here and have forgotten how to do it.
1) “Why do you think MO Jews, generally, have such small family sizes whereas traditional Orthodox Yidden, typically, have large family sizes?” – Non- sequitur, has no question as to the materialistic nature of the society.
2) “How many times have you missed a “Kiddush Club” in MO shuls? Not too often. Then they come home shikur. This issue is extremely rare in Yeshivish/Chasidish minyanim.” – Firstly, this is an extremely uninformed opinion. I have spent time in the Five Towns, Teaneck, The Hempsteads, etc. where the MO Jews live. and I have NEVER , not even once, seen them coming home from shul shikur. It is so silly, especially when practically anyone who I’ve ever seen publicly shikur have been Heimish guys either in the Catskills or increasingly in certain neighborhoods in Monsey and the Lakewood area. I’ve also seen it occasionally in Flatbush, but very rarely.
3) “If you have 8 kids in MO school (in the imaginary world where an MO family has 8 children) and your income is $60k/year, you’ll be paying most of your income to the MO school, if you want a chance of keeping the 8 in MO schools.” – Again, Non-sequitur. And the average Jew, no matter which community, is paying a significant portion of their income to tuition. Either their own children’s or for their neighbor who got the break.
4) “lakewhut: It is true that the SY families in Flatbush often have fancy houses, but by the Ashkenazic Yeshivish families (Flatbush, Kensington, Bensonhurst, Boro Park, etc.) that is infrequent.”
I dont know where to start with this one. Every block you go on in BP has McMansions being built. Monstrosities 4 stories high with grand terraced porches for the landscaping and a driveway with built in running LED lights. Inside you have porcelain tile costing $10,000 just for one floor, with doors going for $1500 each and hardware that wouldn’t look out of place in high-end Hollywood elite neighborhoods.
The streets are lined with stores selling pacifier clips for 60 dollars and baby stretchies for 150. Cafes teeming with people buying ridiculously overpriced luxury food. Every now and then, between the banks and internet kiosks, is a luxury clothing store . The standard of living and the things that are considered “givens” in the Heimish velt has no comparison in the modern world, just ask them. When they travel to Brooklyn their reaction typically is “How in the world do people manage to survive this pressure cooker of excess?”
Go to Google Maps and choose a random block in Boro Park on 13th or 16th Avenues, and compare the archived pictures from 10 or more years ago to now. The difference in stores, modes of dress, types of buildings, etc. is tremendous
Choshuv is right near me, wherever I happen to be seated
I find it very interesting that merely being somewhat left wing makes you a “Mah Yafis KAPO” (Sure your grandparents would love that one), Apikorus, and “Fake religious Jew”.
SOme of you need to remember that you worship Hashem and not the GOP, Trump, or conservatism.
@ujm,
1) I see you’re still stuck on the tuition part which proves nothing about materialism.
2) The entire lifestyle, not just the homes, of Heimish Yidden is based on materialism. I gave specific examples, and you can just walk through BP, Flatbush, Williamsburg, Lakewood, Monsey, etc. or read the magazines geared to those communities for examp,les on your own.
3) “Unlike Chareidi schools where many parents can be paying $4k/year per child, some even paying less than that and some parents even paying almost nothing” Umm….I know plenty of Boro Park schools where this isn’t the case. Not everyone gets free busing or tuition breaks
4) Repeating the sme line without proof doesn’t make it truth ( “There’s no doubt that materialism and and pursuit of worldly pleasures is far greater in MO communities than in any other Orthodox community. Even if no one is immune, unfortunately.”)
5) Repeated bad-faith ad hominim attacks (2.1 children AND A DOG!!!) Doesn’t actually prove a point. And I don’t see what your issue with a dog is. My next door neighbor’s dogs Kugel and String Bean love to play with my kids.He’s a menuval
He’s also an extremely bright fellow who has changed the world and is on the Edison and Einstein level in terms of scientific significance
@daMoshe, Correct, even wheen you factor in common schools like HANC or HALB, whose high school tuition is closer to 30K, they still have massive breaks and honestly, calling MO Jews materialistic because they pay a lot for tuition, which is merely a factor of their superior education system, is disingenuous,
Three-Quarters of stores in Heimish neighborhoods are luxury food or clothing boutiques. The magazine ads, geared toward Chasidim, are a lesson in excess. Every yingerman getting married expects to be outfitted with a trousseau fit for a king, with just the perfect silk pajamas and a shtriemel that needs more fittings than a kallah’s wedding gown. The perfect carriage, the perfect outfit, everything is the perfect this or that. That atitude does not exist in MO culture
I don’t have much of a dog in this fight, as I believe there is value in every group and that there is also troubling voids in every group as well. But when I’m in the five towns and see the doctors and lawyers learning with hasmada on shabbos, because they’re busy during the week, and see their children growing in the penimiyus of their yiddishkeit, I get the impression that their homes are built on a solid foundation in which the children see a love for Hashem and the torah, and often either are more “Shtark” than their parents.
Conversely, when I’m in Tri-State Chasidish communities, and I see the levels and pursuit of materialism unmatched in practically any community in the world, Jewish or otherwise, and see how young couples getting married know which lines to fit into but are practically devoid of any yiddish fire or meaning, I wonder if their path was proper
Chicken soup
I’m not going to join the argument as to whether or not he was a meanie or a victim of horrible bias blah blah blah.. Simply put, Trump lost because of the pandemic and because a majority of the country hated him with a passion. I also don’t get why so many people find it so hard to understand either. In 2016, Trump ran against possibly the most reviled person in modern political history, and barely squeaked out a win in 3 states, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin, to gain the presidency. All conspiracy theories about Biden being a mental case aside, he was well liked and did a fantastic job at portraying himself as everyday Joe. That meant that the few people on the fence preferred him over Trump, viewing him as a candidate who would bring normalcy. That coupled with the fact that most people 25-30 and younger will kneejerk vote democrat, meant that Trump had to run a perfect campaign, something he is pretty much incapable of, considering the almost daily political stumbles he has..
Descartes said “I think, therefore I am”. If he doesn’t think, he no longer exists
@Joseph Weddings in Boro Park are going on, but surreptitiously and very, very be’deieved, By way of an example, a wedding hall operator (3 halls) asked a cousin of mine for a list of the 50 men and 50 women they were planning on inviting (The musician, photographer, etc are included in that count) the hall makes the inquiries to see if those people are the type to cause “problems”, and the hall calls them (and you) about an hour before the wedding to tell you which of the 3 halls the wedding will be in. At a determined time, guests have 15 minutes to go into the hall, after which the gates are closed until the end of the wedding (8 oclock). The Kallah forgot something? too bad. Chosson forgot the ring? sorry, borrow from someone else. The priceworks out to about 280 a couple.
He wasn’t resisting arrest once you passed the first minute. He was defenseless and dying, and the other cops should’ve intervened. You should be able to separate the awful killing of Floyd, and the subsequent protests, and the looters taking advantage of the chaos to do their Holiday shoppimg.
Now if only we could get mosdos to ban people who don’t give their wives Gittin….
BARTENDER: “Do you think it’s gonna rain?”
DESCARTES “I don’t think..” [Disappears]
Nothing. Nothing is great about it. Sorry to done so negative.
Thanks. As I started reading this, I was sure it was going to be another one of those chiZuk videos that go around WhatsApp, where it feels like either fluff or silly. Instead, you wrote something that I hope will give me and others support. Why Hashem decided to punish is this way is unknown, why he saw for to take away our most potent weapon of tefila betzibur is unclear as well, but what is obvious to me is that everyone has to look at what is most important for then to work on, whether it’s technology, spousal relationships, tznius,tefila,or whatever. The point is that if we’ve been banished from our shuls and wedding halls, where we congregate together, it’s clear to me that it’s not just one thing we need to work on. It’s everyone working on what they need to work on most, and hopefully this ends quickly with mashiach, and we will once again be about to congregate together on sicha
As an aside, I believe the USSR could’ve won the space race by just sending up a space probe and depositing two broken bottles of Stolichnaya near the landing site.
It’s not a chillul hashem. The leftist Jews protesting and damaging property are creating a chillul hashem
Meerkat Yitz
My Rov is in the country for the summer. So we have a bigger Kiddush
You’re color blind. One was a Green grocer while the other was red. That’s the reason
So work on becoming one of them. The Rabbi Miller’s and Rabbi Gifter’s of the world grew up in as alien an environment for Torah greatness as our own, yet they shaped American Torah Jewry. No reason why you can’t
If it’s Mommy was a yid….
I accused a friend of mine of pouring glue all over my weapons. He denied it, but I’m sticking to my guns
Sorry, not Buchanan. Calvin Coolidge
With the way Trump tweets and blithers sometimes I’d go for Buchanan. He was known to be overly quiet. Once told by a reporter that he’d bet that he could get him to say more than two words, Buchanan responded “You lose” . When he died an actress said “Who could tell?” . So he would be quite refreshing
What really irks me is when you have a pump or similar where someone can pull in if they are waiting for someone, but they choose to double park (read: center of the road) their car.
Is this the thread where I get my free copy of the post?
I posit that men are better looking than Women as well. That’s why women need to wear makeup and men not. Because men don’t need it
I’m pro some of the things he’s doing
I do! I was around under my old username, 2bornot2b. Don’t think I ever posted on one of your threads though….Those were the days….
I was here back then under my first username 2bornot2b. Never interacted with you though. Those were the days…
Had the same issue, so I made one really strong cup. Was halfway down the highway before I realized I left my car at home