SJSinNYC

jO jO, I posted an article about a little girl who swallowed a battery and how ill she was. Someone told me I should have posted that she was “nochri” in my description.

Feif Un – I love Bruno and Boots!!!

noitallmr – I read John Grisham and Stephen King books at 9 and understood them. At 12, kids have full comprehension. I am however impressed by his stamina!

notpashut, they come from families who call themselves yeshivish 🙂

Dr. Pepper, mazal tov!!!!

Why not take a ride out to a nice park and go hiking! You can bring a portable BBQ or build a fire on site. Its like camping, without the sleepover.

Notpashut:

OK, I just misunderstood what you said that the Chofetz Chaim was saying.

Brooklyn: your statement implies modern orthodox rabbis are less knowledgeable than yeshivish ones, which is incorrect. However, if you look at the gray area of halacha and analyze how each society does things, you will notice my statement is generally true.

Tzippi, Rabbi Simcha Weinstein is a good friend of mine! He also wrote another book about comic book characters. He is very smart and funny!

I’m just wondering which mod censored my television post (which was a respectful, informative post IMHO).

As for following the Chofetz Chaim, I really need to read what he wrote about a topic like this. Also, while we follow the Chofetz Chaim, we dont do so in a vacuum and if I were going to blast her to the community, I would definitely speak to a competent Rav first.

I love Little House on the Prairie!

I also recommend the Chronicles of Narnia, but you may want to investigate how the series came about before making a final decision.

I dont like the Junie B Jones books because I dont think Junie B speaks very nicely. I personally would prefer to keep that kind of language out of books for kids that age.

kiruvwife – there are plenty of communities that dont have televisions in their homes (for the most part) and they still have plenty of the problems of general society (drugs, abuse etc). TV does not cause these things.

We just got a DVR which is a digital recording device. You can fastforward commercials. Mostly, commercials are geared towards the audience for the shows. Daytime television has more diaper commercials (stay at home moms are the ones likely to be watching then) etc. There are also commercial free channels (that you pay for).

Joseph, none of my rabbanim are on the list, so I dont have to follow that takanah.

I actually brought the subject up with my mother when I was a teenager. She had no idea (back then it was not even thought of AT ALL) that there was a problem. She knew I would never try anything (and I did not), but I made here aware at how easy it was to get drugs if I wanted. One of my friend’s brother’s room always smelled like pot (so my friend told me – I was never in his room and I have no idea what pot smells like); his friend used to bring hash brownies to her house. You can ask almost any teenager to go on a mission to get some drugs and they will have very little trouble finding a person who can get some for them.

This was ten years ago, and I am sure the problem is even more rampant now!

Honestly, I have no idea all the different drug names and paraphonelia. I know crack is a white powder. I know marijuana is smoked. But I wouldnt recognize it! You dont have to detail what illicit drugs looks like, smell like etc to warn them of the dangers.

Joseph, I dont believe in assuring something that is muttar. There are plenty of things that are perfectly fine to watch on television, so long as you can self regulate. Same with the internet.

Luckily, my Rabbi does not have a problem with television itself, just some of the content.

BYM – what Your question has been deleted – please do not ask questions that can lead to identifying those that post here. YW Moderator-72

Shindy, thank you for that! All too often people are quick to just “blame the parents” when often its not the case.

First, I agree with Oomis that MO does not equal less religious. I think the biggest fundamental difference is that MO does not assur the muttar.

In my experience with the yeshivish community, if someone found out something like my friend eating out, the woman would be ostracized and a boat load of lashon hara would be circulating about her. She would probably be pushed further and further from Judaism until she gave it all up.

Now, is MO perfect – NO! Many times kids from more yeshivish backgrounds think MO means you can pick and choose at will and try to join the movement. They often leave when they discover that the rules are just interpreted differently, but still there.

Now, notpashut, before flaming me for some of these statements, please think about them also 🙂

Yashrus, from my experience with people from Darchei Torah, they are yeshivish NOT middle of the road. [note to mod: not derogatory, just explanatory]

I’m on at work too 🙂

Honestly, if everything posted quicker I would be on here MUCH less.

Brooklyn, who is the “we” that you are talking about?

Shindy, I would like to respectfully disagree with you. I dont have a child off the derech (my son is 10 months old), but I have friends who left, relatives etc…I have some insight as to what they told me and what I saw.

Its not exactly that chumras=off the derech, the equation is much more complicated than that. I agree with much of Oomis’s post. I especially agree that its a lot easier to re-integrate within modern orthodoxy than it is more right wing. The kids are also less likely to stray that far, because they can still be a part of the community and experiment with the boundaries (no one will say its ok, but the child wont be shunned as s/he would be in the more right wing circles).

When you dont explain to your kids why they are doing what they are (within reason, and age appropriate), they might struggle with a chumra, get so frustrated and finally throw off the yoke of Torah. If they had known it was a chumra, they might just have followed a less stringent approach. This is all part of chinuch! As you raise your kids you teach them. Kids need to understand what they are doing and why – where it comes from, is it a minhag hamakom or a chumra or flat out halacha. Everyone needs to ultimately choose their own level of observance.

Hypocrisy is also a HUGE reason why kids go off the derech. A few of the people I know, could no longer stomach what terrible things were going on behind the scenes by supposedly respectable people. They were tired of all of it being ignored because the person was “choshov.” They saw all the outward displays of being more frum than the next person, but nothing was internalized. One of the biggest parts of Judaism is how you treat people, and without that, all they saw was a system of repression.

Brooklyn, there is something wrong with just saying “We dont do that.” You need to understand how halacha works so that when you face a similiar situation, you can apply the halacha. You cannot call you rav every step of the way! “We dont do that” may work on a 5 year old, but a 15 year old? A 15 year old has the pull of the outside world saying “Look at all the fun we have, no restrictions, do whatever you want” and all you are offering your children is “we dont do that?” Now, not everything has an answer but if you instill in your children a love of Torah, then the few laws you cannot explain are will be ok with them because they will believe and understand the premise.

Now, not every kid who goes off the derech experiences things like this. Some just dont feel that connection to Judaism and want to go on their way. They may just not want to have all the restrictions.

I dont think I did a very good job explaining my thoughts. This is hard to convey this way. My heart goes out to everyone effected by children off the derech.

Ashreinu, its the stigma in the word “frum” not in being more stringent in your practice of halacha. I grew up in a paradox – modern orthodox home and yeshivish elementary school. They made “frum” seem like it was 100% about what people see (and whats not nice we dont show). They focused so much on what you were wearing (I was scolded for wearing ankle bracelets) and how you looked on the outside, rather than what your observance was.

I like the term “observant.” To me, it connotes someone who is keeping halacha and striving for a closer connection to Hashem. The most observant people I know come from a spectrum of backgrounds (MO, yeshivish, chassidish) and they are all steadfast in conforming to halacha and growing. They believe in what they are doing and dont do things just because “it looks right.”

We cannot judge who is a better person – it depends on who you are comparing yourself to. If you judge me against Moshe Rabbeinu, I fail miserably. If you judge me against a murderer, I pass with flying colors. My mother always told me that the more Jews thrive, the more they turn against each other.

Good luck in your journey to become closer to Hashem. May you be live a life fulfilled with Torah and mitzvos!

Brooklyn, you may want to be careful what you call garbage. If you were referring to my list of “tznius” issues, there is a large debate in the gemara and commentaries about if a women has to cover her head or her hair and how much. There is also a big debate about where (bayit, chatzer, shuk). I dont have the sources in front of me (they are packed away in my attci and I am not pulling them out!). There is a minority opinion that a women needs a HEAD covering not a HAIR covering. You may not follow it, but you should learn to respect it.

Don’t worry, I never thought you would actually answer. I think it takes an honest person to really look around and say one of those two statements. From your posts, I assume you think my posek is wrong, but are afraid to say so.

As for being open minded – I would hesitate to call you that from what I have seen around here (specifically, how you reacted to illini07’s parenting style). You seem to still be in that post high school *everything is black and white* phase and have much to learn. Hatlacha in your path in life!!

Feivel, I’m not 100% clear on your intent. I was not calling passed generations ignorant because they didnt have running water – just that its not something I would live with today. As such, unless there is a halachic reason they thought dogs were lowly, disgusting creatures, I dont know if there opinion holds much water today. There were plenty of old superstitions that are no longer agreed with.

Feivel, to be fair though, there are many things we would probably gag at from their times (like, using an outhouse as a permanent bathroom – no thank you)

I have to add this – there are plenty of wonderful non Jews out there. They fulfil their tachlis by keeping the sheva mitzvot bnei noach. They are kind, caring people living on their path.

There are also terrible Jews out there. They lie, cheat, steal, abuse…are they better than the wonderful non Jews? I cant answer because I do not know how Hashem judges and neither do you.

BYM: I am an American Jew

Pashuteh Yid, does it make a difference if I never wore makeup? I’m so naturally beautiful that I dont need it LOL. On a serious note, has a divorce ever been granted for a woman not putting on makeup?

Oomis, you dont NEED makeup, but you may want it.