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I don’t mind labels because it helps me understand where someone is coming from. It doesnt mean I look down on them or see them in a negative light.
If I am talking to a Satmar women, I won’t assume if I quote a pasuk from tanach that she would know it. So I might summarize the statement instead, so as not to make her feel ignorant. Its not always a bad thing, but can be used negatively.
There are a few schools of thought on college – in many cases, its better to be top at a “lower” university, than average at a “top” one. This is very true for medical school, from what my friends have told me.
Yes, there is a difference in the caliber of education between certain top schools and lower ones. In engineering, for example, MIT is highly regarded as putting out the top engineers. But, if you graduate from CCNY, Polytech, Stephen’s or RPI, you will be able to get a great job also. As a general rule, someone from MIT has a much better work ethic than from other schools because it is so competitive.
Touro is a fine school. They have a very decent education, depending on what you want to do. If you want to be a marine biologist, then its not for you.
Sometimes, the name of the college you went to gets your name through the door (true no matter where you went to college), and after that its really what you’ve done.
Squeak, yes, only the yekke is right. How? Because a non-yekke simcha doesnt start when the invitation states – rather 30-60 minutes later.
Well, you have kids (multiple IIRC)…so I would say mid 30s.
PY, I try to do all my sinning outside of NYC now LOL.
Squeak, to be honest, I don’t really care if people figure out who I am. So you know who I am? And? You need more information than that to steal my identity. So you know my employer – most people I know do. I’m not giving out any classified information here that I wouldnt have given out to people I meet.
IIRC, Joseph is from the greater monsey area, and I really wonder if I know him. I would love to meet Anon and Oomis (and some others) and I wonder if I know them.
Back to the topic at hand – the schools I listed above have much more stringent requirements for teachers (many require masters to teach). In many cases, better training leads to better teaching. Part of this is because training helps teachers control a class and then can relay the subject better.
I had some teachers in my youth that were basically “straight out of seminary” teachers who may have known plenty about the topic but were not cut out to be a teacher because they had no understanding of how to teach or how to control a class. Could this be taught on the job? Yes, but training helps. Training costs money.
Granted, at a certain point, more money doesnt do anything to help.
I didn’t say net revenue per student was higher, just cost per family is approximately the same.
Notpashut, double shot needed!! I agree!! I generally agree with The Wolf though 🙂
C
Jelly Belly jelly beans – YUM YUM. So glad they are Kosher. We have fun just trying to figure out what flavor we just ate.
Don’t you mean Bertie Bott’s Every Flavor Beans? LOL
Pashuteh Yid, I appreciate your posts!
Brooklyn, I know you think you are number one, but sadly (for you), I think I am placed above you. We can’t all be number one, and you have a lot to learn to get there 🙂
Squeak, I didn’t go to CCNY 🙂 And I am a permanent Con Ed employee – not an intern. I’ve been with the company almost 4 years.
I didn’t talk about volume of secular education – just quality. There is no reason why math (which is actually very important in learning halacha) can’t be taught better at some of these schools. Its not always quantity, but quality.
Yes, there are other schools that are cheaper than the $12,000-$15,000 who have great educations. But Joseph asked what parents pay and although my son is not in Yeshiva yet, I started researching numbers. Those are actual numbers from parents who pay.
Yes, of course that is subsidizing. But keep in mind – where I live, most of the parents both have professional (or semi-professional) jobs, or one parent is well paid. There are also less children per household (the new MO regular number is approximately 4 based on an unofficial poll), so even parents that struggle have less children to send through Yeshiva. Tuition might be double (or a little more), but the cost is the approximately the same as having 8-10 kids in Yeshiva at half the cost.
Squeak, yes he was serious and correct – but I think they walked in the door at 8:01 or 8:02. Would anyone except a yekke really consider that late?
I’m surprised I didn’t make the favorite list. I am so charming 🙂
Squeak, yes I do pay my own bills – I also work for the utility company so thats always on my mind LOL!
I dont know about reform, but conservatives have Solomon Shechter, and probably others.
Squeak, while Lakewood (I dont know much about Waterbury) only charges $3500-$5000, the quality of education is generally subpar to other schools (specifically in secular studies). Where I live, tuition is between $12,000 – $15,000 [Yeshiva of North Jersey, Moriah, Yavneh]. I cannot imagine getting the quality of education at Yavneh for $3500 to $5000 in Northern NJ.
mazal, while I agree with what you wrote, we all stem from the middle east…its just a degree of how long ago you left 🙂 Besides, if you met my grandparents you wouldnt think they are sephardic AT ALL – they have a lot of German tendencies LOL.
Here is a story: my mother got up at 5 to leave the house at 6 to pick up my grandparents to drive them to a bar mitzvah of my cousin that started at 8 am. They were around the corner, stuck at a red light..the clock read 7:59 and my grandfather said “I guess we are going to be late.” He was serious 🙂
(sorry about the large portion of bold, I wrote the code wrong)
TOHSG – you know there are plenty of things wrong with “regular” college! I could start a list, but there is no reason to start a heated debate when things are going smoothly at the moment! Don’t stir up trouble for no reason.
What does he want to do? If he wants to go to law school, a BTL is a great option. He will also have to study to take the LSATs, but from what I hear, if you have a gemara cup, its just a matter of learning how to take the test, rather than the subject matter.
If he wants to go to medical school, a BTL is ok, but he also will have to do his pre-med requirements. If he wants a profession that has no connection to a BTL, then it won’t help to get one. Can you get us some more information please?
lesschumras, joint operation is nice, but brings up other issues.
Who do you allow to join this venture? Is it any Jewish school? Does that include reform and conservative? If no, where does the line get drawn? Some people on this site don’t think MO fits into the orthodox category, so its a very touchy subject.
Otherwise, I think many people underestimate the cost of running a school. The electric/gas/oil bills alone are substantial. Teachers are also vastly underpaid, so we really need to pay them better. What is more important than making sure our kids have a strong Jewish foundation? Yes it begins at home, but school is extremely important.
Honestly, I think if Jews got together, we could also form a group for health insurance. With so many orthodox Jews in the NY area alone, we would qualify for large corporation discounts. It would require membership somewhere (maybe the OU? They are a fairly neutral company) but would allow lower cost health insurance for much better rates then most people have access to.
My maternal side is Yekke. My father’s side is a mutt! Romanian, Hungarian, Polish and Czechoslovakian. Truth be told though, the borders changed so frequently that they all might have lived in the same city LOL.
decaf coffee with a splash of milk and no sugar. I dont really need the milk, I just like watching the color change 🙂
But I much prefer tea (without sugar) and I drink that all day long.
does anyone have a good kibbeh recipe?
My family is purely ashkenaz (except that my grandmother’s family was kicked out of Spain and made its way to Germany in 1492)…but we LOVE sephardic food. We eat morrocan carrot salad, matbucha, schug and chumus all the time…my mother makes them all and they are awesome!
I’ve also had tibit at my sephardic friend – its very similiar to the one posted by IR, which makes sense because her father is Iraqi.
Mod72 – Pomona? Its all really “Monsey.”
not Pomona.
Spring Valley (10977). YW Moderator-72
Intellegent, with all due respect, quoting sources does NOT mean that Zalman has his hashkofos intact despite modern propoganda.
How many women nowadays do you know who don’t visit friends? How many do you know who only go grocery shopping 1-2X a month? With refridgeration available, we should be able to go out less not more! Remember, we don’t pasken by everything written in the gemara – there are so many arguments and opinions in there, if we followed everything we couldnt possibly manage it! Some are physical impossibilites. (not sure if I am being clear here…just basically that the gemara isnt the bottom line – we have to follow the bottom line halacah)
Its unfortunate that many people have pledged to oust “modern propaganda” when as you yourself said on one thread, you couldn’t find anything halachically wrong with what I say. (don’t remember if you said you couldnt find anything or that you almost never find anything)
encourages people to give tzedakah for all the wrong reasons
Kiruv, I am not sure there is ever a wrong reason to give tzedaka. We give maaser because we are required to. This is personally a mitzvah that is very hard for me – I hate parting with my money. My husband set up a maaser account so that 10% of our salaries are deposited there. Now, when we give tzedaka, I write out a check from there and it feels less like its coming from “my money.”
We did give extra to Oorah recently to get a gift. We were going to donate close to that amount anyway, and we could use a GPS. The gifts are donated – Oorah doesnt pay for it.
Most of the things in the catalog were actually normal, helpful things – utilities for a few months, mortgage/rent for a few months, groceries, a car…things that people can use. Sure there were things like diamonds, computers etc…but if that entices extra people to donate, isnt that a good thing?
Anon, ah that makes more sense. But schedule alterations are technically available.
I actually think more people (including me) should start charting – it might help them understand their ferility issues if they arise (changes, mikvah schedule etc).
Where in the Torah does it recommend nursing? Thats great!
Blahblah, I lived in Brooklyn for 5 years. I hate Brooklyn – its gross, dirty, houses are small and close together, there is NO nature (except for that lone tree that grows in Brooklyn LOL)…
But…if you don’t have a car its very convenient. The grocery store is right there, shuls abound and every Jewish amenity is around the corner.
I actually like public transportation – many times taking it is cheaper and faster (such as getting to Manhattan during rush hour). Its also environmentally irresponsible to use your car many times.
It’s the Jewish state that the world has a problem with.
No, its the Jews that the world has a problem with. They use Israel as an excuse for more Jew hating.
I think the world actually loves us – they love having a scapegoat! What would they do without us? There would be no one to blame but themselves…
Itzik…I don’t think thats what she meant.
OK within two hours:
Hunter Mountain (skiing/snowboarding)
Philadelphia (lots of great American history)
Cape May (I’ve never been there, but you can enjoy the beach with no tznius issues – its just cold)
Newport RI (a little far, but awesome)
Mystic Connecticut
You might want to check out virtualtourist.com – they have lots of information.
I don’t know where you went to Yeshiva and how it works, but you can try Thomas Edison College. I know plenty of girls who have gotten a TON of credits through them from seminary (but Michlalah for example is an Israeli College so I don’t know if that was why).
Bogen, he also didnt say you couldn’t leave your phone in your coat. Your interpolation is just as valid as havesomeseichels. Maybe someone will clarify this.
I think its nice in theory, but with a war going on, I would want to reach my kids at all times.
So to those who are vehemently against birth control – do you think you know more than the rabbonim? When they say its ok, are they wrong?
Squeak and Mazal – unfortunately, with the people I know in large families, the oldest kids get huge responsibility well above what they should have. The only case where its not, is my friend whos family is really rich and can afford all the help they need. I don’t know if others know people who just help out, but I know too many kids who are overworked.
Anon, do you know why NFP is against halacha? Just curious.
There are also exceptions allowed with the minhag thing – my husband davens nusach sephard and I daven ashkenaz. I ask my Rabbi if I could stay with Ashkenaz (davening sephard just trips me up- if it were totally different that would be fine, but its the random few words being changed here and there…)
My rabbi said that wasnt a problem.
believer, what do you like to do? Do you like outdoors/nature? Do you want to fly somewhere in America? How far of a drive is “local” to you?
I can provide suggestions with more information.
think there is some truth to it. but ppl took it way overboard. y not stay on the safe side nd x go? wait to go a different day.
Some of us work in Manhattan.
BTW – New York City covers the five boroughs (Manhattan, the Bronx, Queens, Brooklyn and Staten Island). Manhattan is a part of New York City. Many people call Manhattan NYC colloquially though.
Yanky, I support the Israeli Army. I think that Hashem started by giving us back Israel to see if we could unite as a nation. I think we are proving ourselves unworthy of Moshiach with all the hatred going around.
I appreciate everyone who risks their lives everyday just by living in Israel – the army, the civilians…its because of Jews like that, that I can go to Israel any time I want to visit. They have already stamped out the path for me. [my grandfather literally helped build roads in Israel in the 1930s]
The Big One – are you a man? Do you have any idea how hard it is to be pregnant? I was vomitting for the first 30 weeks of my pregnancy. So yes, I understand questioning how it must feel to be pregnant all the time. Post Partum Depression is really high nowadays – many women go untreated. Getting pregnant again is even worse for PPD because you cannot take drugs to help you. Unfortunately, most people do not take PPD seriously.
birth control borders on murder. the blood of the unborn cries out. all their future generations that were stopped cold by a would be parent who thought they are smarter than G-d.
Do you think you are smarter than the many rabbonim who allow birth control? (obviously the rabbonim decide on the situation) Doesnt the fetus not become a “halachic human” until 30 days? (or is it 40?) So how would birth control be considered bordering on murder? Unless you consider every month that a women doesnt get pregnant as if she (and her body) killed a life?
Will hill, there is a drastic difference between birth control and abortion. Birth control prevents a possible life, abortion KILLS a life. There are even situations where an abortion is allowed/required according to halacha. The slippery slope argument is very dangerous because I could make that argument with almost everything that is allowed by halacha. There is a reason we have our rabbonim who pasken for us rather than go by your logic.
If a 9, 10, or 11 year old knows that when he or she comes home from school he or she will have to watch the little kids for an hour before doing homework, what is wrong with that? That’s not forcing them to be adults, that’s barely asking anything! Point to a kid who has to do that AND give the kids baths, AND put them to sleep, AND make supper for the family AND make lunches for everyone to take the next morning AND help all the kids get dressed and I will agree that the child is being abused. But having a DEFINED responsibility to younger siblings is NOT abuse and is one of many VERY GOOD ways to give a child responsibilies (if he or she can handle it physically).
Squeak, I know plenty of families where the latter is the norm. There is a big difference between helping out, and shouldering major responsibility. My cousin’s daughter is allowed to go away once a year for shabbos because her mother just cannot spare her help. She is the oldest of 10 (followed by 8 boys and then a girl) and has major responsibility. My step-neice is the oldest of 9 and has a ton of responsibility. She is in seminary this year and told me she is never going back home (to live) because of the burden she has to bear. My cousin was barely allowed to come over and play (or vice versa) because she was watching her siblings. From a young age, she also helped her parents run their store from their house.
Definition from dictionary.com the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.
Intellegent, as with any movement, you have extremists. So yes, you do have the extreme feminists who want to control everything and lord themselves over men. They are usually overcompensating for a lack of good male role models. So yes, there is the “I want to pretend to be a man” group out there, but generally they are the minority.
The feminists of the 60s-70s had to push hard for some very basic rights that many of us are fighting right now. Many women are still paid less than their male counterparts. Many women still hit plenty of doors careerwise. Many men still think women are inferior. Those women who pushed hard for our rights gave us the freedoms we so take for granted in America.
As for the Torah – the Torah is NOT anti-feminism. After all, we had a female leader well before any other religious group. Women have rights according to the Torah – we are not just there to serve men. And kollel society is feminist! After all, its the only group that I know of where the women consistently outEARN the men (yes I know I’ve said this before, but its worth repeating).
Oomis made a lot of good points.
Feminism is not anti-stay at home mom either – feminism is about the freedom to choose. So, you choose to be a stay at home mom rather than just doing it because thats what society tells you. You choose to get a career because you want to.
We donated money to Oorah. And yes, we put $15 into the L’shmah category (more out of guilt than anything else).
Then again, some of those items we really could use…like mortgage payments, a car etc…
To be fair though, I donate plenty of money l’shma. I would donate to Oorah without the fancy catalog.
very often it’s the people with a head on their shoulders who date more till they get married.
au contraire. the smart ones (in the right way) get married quicker, usually. meaning they aren’t miss picky (the cause of the so-called great shidduch crisis.)
Both statements are absolutely ridiculous.
I married the first guy I dated, but we dated for 1.5 years before getting engaged (and I thought that was a little fast for me). I knew at 20 that I was not ready to get married yet. I wasn’t shidduch dating so this wasn’t an issue.
Sometimes, people start dating well before they are ready and they need a maturation process through the first 10 guys they date. Sometimes, they are just set up with the wrong people. And sometimes, its the first guy they meet that is perfect.
Take this piece of advice: marriage succeeds when both parties want it to succeed AND are willing to put in the work. When choosing the person to marry, you need to make sure that you both have the same goals, have personalities that mesh and that you are attracted to. Do not date expecting the other person to change – take them as they are and decide if you are willing to put in the hard work. Marriage is worth the work with the right person.
My mother has a pushka with $1 bills to hand out to collectors. She gives lots of tzedaka regularly, but hates to turn others away. This was her compromise – she gives them something, but if they are a scammer, then they only got $1.
When people complain my donation is not enough, I tell them that is all my husband allows. They understand that.
Opinionatedbubby – I disagree with you. Its not only a matter of nickel and dimes – but people should be prepared for how hard it is (at least to some degree). I think the same is true of marriage. I got married before a bunch of a my friends and when they were ready to get married I told them that marriage is hard work and tried to prepare them for it. One of my friends laughed and said “Its only hard if you make it hard.” Boy was she in for it! She called me later to ask for lots of advice when she hit a rough patch. Is marriage worth it? Yes! But its good to know what challenges lay ahead so you can prepare for them. I am a fan of honesty – its important to understand what you are getting yourself into.
Intellegent, there is a big difference between someone who has their children and someone who decides to bring more children into a situation that they already cannot afford. And yes, it does effect me – after all, they ask for my money to pay for food for these poor children. I think ultimately the choice is between each family and their rabbonim, but I still think its irresponsible.
For those of you who have kids already, do you remember what its like to have a baby waking you up all the time? My son is 11 months old and still wakes up 2X at night. If I had another kid, I don’t know what I would do. Taking care of kids is hard work. So yes, you can have one after another after another…but the psychological health of the parents and other children in the family should be placed high on the list. There are also forms of birth control that require no contraception (such as Natural Family Planning) which just requires charting different changes in your body – I have no idea if this requires a heter or not, but I cannot imagine it really would.
Also, there is another pitfall to having many kids – often, you don’t get to spend quality time with each one. You churn them out, and then the oldest children help raise the others. I’ve seen this many times and its always unfair to the older children. Its one thing for your kids to help out (and they should), its another to make them into parents at 9 years old.
Your argument about chasidis is not a good comparison. Chasidus was (is) a different derech of becoming closer to H-m which many people were against. I don’t believe the idea of mo is to become closer to H-m after all is said and done. Also, Chasidus is lasting for many, many years. I don’t think the same can be said for Modern Orthodoxy (but of course you’ll disagree).
Honestly, that is what the anti-chassidus people would have said way back when! You should reread what you wrote and try to apply it the start of chassidus.
000646 I really hope you are wrong about that, and its only the vocal ones. I really don’t want to think that so many people are really that ignorant.
Well, I usually give out as I get the mailings, so it would be the one that came first.