SJSinNYC

“However, when someone decides not to cover her hair when she is married, she is b’shitah saying to the world “I do not cover my hair and that is OK”. She doesn’t acknowledge that she is doing wrong.”

Many people do things wrong, openly and knowingly, but still do it. Don’t take that as thinking its correct anymore than the tax evader who is still openly accepted by his shul really thinks his theft is ok.

As to the shalom bayis issues – I thought certain things were more kabbalistic in nature. No one is going to convince me that if a man sees a woman with a sleeve that is 1/4″ too short, he is going to stray. Why we have the boundaries we do is simple halacha, but you aren’t talking about observant women wearing bikinis – you are talking a matter of inches. If a man says he was tempted by the 1/4″, I wouldn’t believe him, especially because general society exposes so much more than we do.

Perhaps its done as a warning for any future BSU? Also, BSU is really theoretical right? There never were any…

I would love to debate this, but I have to research a bit of those sources. Specifically about the Rav saying MO is b’dieved. I do believe that MO did save many people from going off the derech in the last few generations though.

I think people look towards the past few generations of MO where many people were ignorant and say “look they don’t follow halacha.” However, many of them never learnt proper halacha (like hilchos shabbos or something) so they keep it the way they know. Today’s generation of MO is much more educated and therefore chooses to follow halacha. They are still MO.

To me, MO is keeping halacha without assering the muttar.

NYMom, the way MO people choose to keep tznius is the same way other groups (Yeshivish, Chasidish etc) choose what halacha they keep as well. People pick and choose what they keep.

As to specific pskei halacha – some issues (like pants, how much hair to cover, length of sleeves) are not as clear cut as people make them and some rabbis pasken differently.

I think there is dancing at Kingsway Jewish Center, but I don’t remember 100%.

Mybat, if there are women who want to dance with the Torah in a tzanua fashion AND it is done for the right reasons (purely for the simcha of the Torah), why shouldn’t they? Especially since many rabbonim agree its not assur.

Jothar, that’s what I’ve always heard too.

I personally don’t like to dance so its a non-issue for me.

Jothar, in my experience, most of the students who go off the derech in college are kids who are waiting to be out of Yeshiva and their parents house to do so. (yes, this is just my limited experience) I could have told you who from my high school class wasn’t going to be frum anymore well before they graduated.

I went to Stern for a year but it really wasnt the school for me. I wanted a much more technical school. I was choosing between Virginia Tech (no Jews), University of Maryland (tons of Jews) and Brooklyn Polytech (few frum Jews, but not much of a dorm life / campus life). Virginia Tech was my first choice for education, but my family was strongly against it. We struck a bargain and I stayed in NY for school. Luckily for me, I met my husband there 🙂

Interestingly, the engineering school was mainly male. I was the only female student in many of my classes.

The women in my shul dance with Sifrei Torah downstairs. Not that many do, more of the young crowd does. I am not a dancer so I don’t join in.

Joseph, I resent your statement on modern orthodoxy. I think if you were honest with yourself, you would see that people across the entire spectrum of orthodoxy pick and choose what they keep – some are just more likely to hide it. But I recognize the source of who is saying this statement, so I’ll just chalk it up to another of your ridiculous comments.

Yes because I asked a shailah when I moved there and was told its kosher to use.

When I got married, my husband and I discussed this particular issue. He grew up in Brooklyn and didn’t use it. After discussing it with our rabbonim, we decided that I would continue being able to use the eruv, and he would still not use it.

Yoyo, try Alstede Farms. Its about an hour a way. Look at their website for a full list of what they offer.

We all no that no Rav has issued a psak assuring smoking or permitting showering on Y”T. My question is why not?

Squeak are you refering to a normal shower? I know many people who do shower on YT with a shinui. My family doesn’t but I think that has more to do with ignorance on how to do it right than being stricter.

I’ve heard of the “deal” psak before and that it applies to general situations.

I hate when people hide behind “you can’t moser me” (and I’ve heard this mentioned by people in real life). Whether or not someone may report wrongdoings, there is no excuse for some of the violations that go on. I’m tired of the “oh others do it too” and “this is our mesorah.” No, our mesorah is to do kaparos with chickens (if thats your minhag) and there is no reason to break the law. We can do both.

Ames, I’ve skimmed through most of the posts (I’m 7 days post partum, so I don’t have that much time) and I just wanted to offer you my words of “wisdom.”

First, learning anything, including Torah can be spiritually dangerous. Just think of the four people who learned pardes…

You seem to have a strong emotional and religious support system. If learning about astronomy strengthens your emunah, I recommend continuing. If there is anything that begins to bother you, talk to the people you trust – your husband, your rabbonim, your family. Its ok to ask questions and understand even if you think it sounds like you are turning to kefira. Its important to understand where you are going wrong, why you are going wrong or how you are misunderstanding things.

There are people who don’t find science and nature spiritually fulfilling and its hard for them to understand why you want to learn it. Its like trying to explain to me why music is beautiful – I just don’t appreciate it.

Good luck and shana tovah!

Thank you all.

Jax, I’m laughing about tuition!

This thread is finally applicable to me again!

Baby born born 9/17 – 9 lbs 1 oz!

Mazel Tov! from the moderation panel

Oomis, doing well. no contractions yet, but an induction is scheduled for tomorrow. I do NOT want to be induced, so everyone send labor vibes!

I think its important to remember that just because something is called a Jewish book, doesn’t make it kosher.

Mod26 – me! I’m pregnant and addicted to them!

Ames, they are more expensive because they circulate through a smaller market so they have to make enough profit from a smaller audience.

Its important to remember that no person (fictional or real) is perfect. If you look at tanach, each person had some big character flaw (some more than others). You can look at the good and bad of the literature you are reading and try to learn from them. At least, that’s the way I look at it.

If you think the books are polluting you, they probably are.

(I don’t think Dr Seuss is treif – its barely real english)

Ronsr – mazal tov!

When I got married I really wanted to fly immediate family to Venice and have a small, intimate wedding there. It got shot down – mainly because my grandparents couldn’t come and I don’t think I could have gotten married without them there.

We did have a REALLY small legal ceremony in Vegas. The entire wedding (including marriage license) cost around $100. It was me, my husband, mother and stepfather. My mother hosted the reception at a local restaurant, which probably cost another $50 or so. Now THAT was a fun wedding 🙂

Did your husband have any say in this decision, as it had to have caused him some

problems with his family. The only place you mention “we” is the part about always holidaying with your family,

Lesschumras, yes my husband has a say 🙂 We discussed the issues and came to a mutually acceptable decision. He understands why I don’t think they celebrate correctly and he kind of agrees. Plus he HATES Brooklyn with a passion so he has no problem avoiding it.

LOL Squeak. No, but they changed my dates 3 times. Its ok – I’m in no rush, as long as the baby is healthy.

My in-laws don’t do holidays the way I want to (they sort of just have the meal and thats it, and don’t treat the holidays that special) so we always holiday by my family.

When I lived in the same city as my in-laws, we did go to them for meals sometimes on Rosh Hashana and Shavuot.

My sisters also always come home for Pesach, Sukkot and Shavuot.

RH and YK we are usually home, but because I am due any day now (my due dates are September 3, 7 or 12 LOL), we are going to my mother. And staying until after the holidays are done.

Thanks Ames 🙂 I like you too, just for who you are!

Health, you know the saying you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar? I think its a phrase you should learn to internatlize!

Don’t get me wrong – I’ve argued strongly with all these people before. We are on opposite sides of most things too…but you should still try to speak more respectfully.

Joseph, what I meant by application, is that going into the world you generally encounter more situations which allow for keeping a variety of halachos than sitting all day learning in a beis medrash. So you aren’t losing out on keeping Torah. Someone who isn’t frum doesn’t have the opportunity…

Back to college – many of those professions require extensive training. Commercial airline pilot? Hundreds of hours of flight time, which is expensive. Most commercial airline pilots I’ve met or talked to have gone through the air force where they logged enough hours to qualify.

I think a college degree itself is not a requirement, but some training of sorts is. And a basic command of the english language. I am in no way an expert at all, but I do a lot of technical writing in my field, so I have to be basically competent.