SJSinNYC

I just spoke to my cousin who is on the scholarship commity of a well known MO school (name withheld to protect his identity).

He said the way they look at it is:

1) Parents have to be making an effort. If the mother is a SAHP (without little kids), they require her to get a job before asking for a scholarship. If the she is working short hours, they ask her to work longer hours. (Obviously, if she can find a job and get more hours)

2) In cases where people have homes with lots of equity, they will ask the person to take out a home equity loan to cover tuition.

3) They don’t mind if a small amount of money goes into savings every month (not like $1,000/month, but lets say $2-300). They think its important to budget for emergencies.

4) He said cleaning help is ok for full time working parents as long as its limited (meaning, not full time unless that includes child care with cleaning type of situation).

I thought it was interesting to hear his take on scholarships.

EJ, I meant to write $1,000 for life insurance.

And the mortgage is “light” – I figured that would offset doing the tax calculations. My point was that $150k sounds nice and rich, but isn’t by any stretch of the imagination.

DP, bungalow colonies are luxuries. Day came for those of us working is mandatory. That’s where the leftovers would go…

I personally think we have to realize that Yeshiva education is classified as a luxury. Teaching your children Torah is NOT a luxury but paying for an expensive education is.

Then you need to decide what luxury to give up – eating chicken every night vs paying tuition. Or maybe even homeschooling.

If people were required to pay 100% of tuition costs no matter what the situation, I wonder how many people would cut back on non-essentials (and go to eating rice and beans).

That way the folks making a ton of money would help offset the working class and everyone feels like a mentch.

I don’t this is the right way to do it.

Lets take Family A: Husband and Wife together earn $150,000 and have 5 kids. Each tuition costs $5,000 plus some fees so they pay $27,500 in tuition. Their after tax (and heath care) take home pay is around $95,000. Subtract $9,500 maaser. Then subtract $600/month for both of them to commute [assume one public transportation and one car with insurance]. Now you are down to $78,500. Then subtract tuition and you are at $51,000. Food for a family of 7 is around $700/month, now you are down to $42,400. Assume a mortgage payment is around $2500/month. You are down to $21,000. Clothing is $300/year per person (including shoes, coats, suits etc) you are down to $18,900. Life Insurance for the parents is $2000/year. $16,900. Utilities (electric, gas, water, phone, internet, cell phone) $700/month. $8,500 left. Medical costs (copays, medicine etc) – $200/per person/year. $7,100. School supplies (books, paper, etc) – $100/ per student/ year. $6,600. And since both parents are working full time, its a lot harder to function without a cleaning lady (although that is a luxury so I won’t count it). Should they be subsidizing a family with a stay at home mom? Sure, that family is earning less, but the wife being home makes the home run smoother (generally). Assuming that there aren’t three little kids at home in addition to the five in school (daycare costs would probably offset earnings), shouldn’t the woman go to work instead of being subsidized?

I think our society has begun to rely too much on communal support. Its time to figure out new ways for each person to be able to afford tuition. Family A is not wealthy by any stretch of imagination. We can only lean on the rich so much.

Keep in mind that where I live, tuition is $15,000 a year.

I’m number 1 🙂

I don’t know much about Lakewood politics. Is Singer condoning waste of government resources and spending? You make it sound like Herskowitz in an amazing candidate who will trim waste. Although, I’m not sure whats wrong with the Blue Claws…

Positive reinforcement with food is more likely to give kids food issues. Food is not a bribery tool. Food is for nourishment.

HFCS is bad bad and more bad. I would post a link to the latest study I read but YWN doesn’t allow links. Here is an excerpt from the article:

“A Princeton University research team has demonstrated that all sweeteners are not equal when it comes to weight gain: Rats with access to high-fructose corn syrup gained significantly more weight than those with access to table sugar, even when their overall caloric intake was the same.

In addition to causing significant weight gain in lab animals, long-term consumption of high-fructose corn syrup also led to abnormal increases in body fat, especially in the abdomen, and a rise in circulating blood fats called triglycerides. The researchers say the work sheds light on the factors contributing to obesity trends in the United States.”

So, if you are going to make my kids associate food as a reward, please have the decency to give them pretzels or potato chips. But I much prefer stickers, or extra recess time to play outside.

Pascha, each stage of your life brings different types of fullfillment and different avodah you can complete.

You think being married means you can serve Hashem with everything?

Most men I know (right wing and left wing) have more trouble getting to minyan when they are married. Why? Becuase they have more responsibilities. They have a wife who might be sick or kids…and less flexibility than being single or learning in yeshiva. Most women with young kids find it harder and harder to daven as they have more kids. These are just two basic examples.

What happens if you don’t get married? Or you can’t have kids? What then? It doesn’t matter WHAT your goal is – it could be a career path or a goal to perform as much chesed as possible. But you should have something for YOU, independant of others.

EDITED

Is it really so hard to understand why people enjoy being single?

Its nice to have freedom and time. Time to go to school, travel, enjoy life with friends.

A family is wonderful – I love my family. But If I were married at 19 with a child by 20, I think I would have suffocated.

Yes, people can be single and happy. They can have friends and have fun and have lots of meaning in their lives without a spouse or children.

It doesn’t mean she doesn’t want to get married, but it may mean she doesn’t want to get married right now.

My SIL is in this boat. She is 21 and has no interest in dating whatsoever. If she meets someone, great. If not, she’ll wait until she is ready.

Personally, I think people being pushed to get married too young is awful.

Do people really have trouble abstaining from music?

Volvie, there is a difference between MINHAG and CHUMRA. And, there are ways to negate your minhag and pick up others. Its generally not done, but its possible.

Feif, without substance (AKA learning from the source) most people wouldn’t take it as is. We already have a societal problem in transmitting chumra as halacha, and learning things inside helps negate that effect. Without education for women (and a real solid understanding of how to learn), you will not keep most of the intelligent women as Orthodox Jews.

Its hard to yearn for something you don’t really understand.

how about a report inappropriate post button which removes the post until a mod can look at it and decide if its kosher or not?

How about introspective?

I’m of the opinion that singles need to make their own decisions. So they don’t want to date quiet girls? Well, that’s their perogative.

Feivel, if thats the case we should eat Jewish food. What is Jewish food? I assume its not the Eastern European foods people tend to serve on Shabbos now because they didn’t eat that way back when. So what is it?

PY, I thought it was year 6,000?

Thanks for the love everyone!

BH my life is full of blessings right now. My baby is adorable and growing well kh. I think every day of life gets better and better!

I’m doing great! The baby is growing well bh. I am back to work as of yesterday! Did I miss a lot?

Mommy613, its important to address WHY he is wearing them. If its just because they are comfortable, I would let it go. If its because he is rebelling, then you need to deal with WHY.

I agree with Tzippi to contact a professional. But talk to your son first.

You can’t compare to the outside world. From what I understand, the reason so many people get divorced after living together a long time is that they get married to hold the relationship together. Usually after a few years their relationship is failing and they want the next step – children or marriage – to hold them together. It fails because the relationship was already failing.

Divorce should NOT be stigmatized otherwise you will have people stay in terrible abusive relationships.

IMHO, relationships succeed when both parties want to make it succeed and both parties have good chemistry (meaning, how they interact with each other). If you both WANT to make it work then you can. So long as the basic chemistry is there (if you don’t like a person, how can you deal with them?)

I personally could not marry without really knowing a person. I dated my husband for 1.5 years and we were engaged for 9 months. We were in school together so we spent a lot of time together. We were also very honest with each other (especially about our shortcomings and life goals) and were able to hash out a lot of issues before getting married (we came from somewhat different backgrounds so there were issues to discuss).

I don’t think short dating is a definite cause, but it could lead towards someone making the wrong choice based on a lack of information.

shaatra, why? Even a turtleneck?

Jothar, I didn’t say it was illegal, just IMHO immoral. Its wrong to put yourself in a situation where you will be supported by others when it isn’t necessary. People can do whatever they want.

Truthsharer, I didn’t get married legally at our chupah. We were going to Vegas and wanted to get married there. We didn’t apply for any benefits though.

Mod80, I would leave it open. This thread already inspired some better tznius. Arent there any female mods? If not, time to hire one! Also maybe change the title to read women only?

The way to put an end to it is to not contribute money towards it.

So at what point do you think saving for tuition is supposed to happen? My husband and I took some nice vacations before we had kids. Was that wrong? Then we bought a house…now we don’t go anywhere (except my mother took me to Iceland recently).

How do we balance tuition vs life needs? My kitchen needs to be redone because there are nails sticking out everywhere and its dangerous. Is it wrong of me to redo it? Is it wrong if I use good quality (and more expensive) materials so it lasts 40 years instead of 10?

My post is serious…I know I will have to ask for a tuition break because my husband and I have 2 kids but don’t have a spare $30,000 to pay for our kids education. I hate asking for a break but there is no way around it.