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I don’t wear high heels, except for special occasions.
OP, if it makes you feel better, head coverings of all kinds cause me dizziness, vomiting and fainting.
LOL.
My husband did our sidewalk, pathways and part of driveway (so we could get out). Its spotless.
Shoveling for a healthy teenager/adult of any gender is not a major chore (unless you are talking about wet and heavy snow).
DH, I asked my husband last night how he was taught to give tzedaka (he spoke to our Rav in detail when we both started working and had actual money coming in). He said the basics of what our Rav said was:
1) Poor/starving people IN YOUR FAMILY
2) Poor/starving people IN YOUR CITY
3) People who need medical or other care
4) Chinuch institutions (AKA local schools or kiruv organizations)
5) Kollel
6) Other nice organizations that aren’t absolutely necessary (like Yad Batya L’Kallah)
Apparently, our Rav said help those who can’t help themselves first.
I guess you didn’t understand my point about the starving person. If a starving person comes up to you and says can I have some food, you don’t respond with “A donation has been made in your honor at XYZ Kollel.” That doesn’t help the starving person’s predicament. It won’t fill their stomach with food.
According to my friends in Kollel, Kollelim are suffering for money. Donations are way down. Stipends in many kollels have been cut or withheld. Clearly, they need physical money.
I want to snuggle.
The problem with starting off as a young couple with cleaning help, is that you become dependant on it. Unless you both are working 12-15 hours a day, cleaning up from 2 people does not take too much effort. If you can’t cope without children, how will you cope with children?
Granted, if you can afford it, sure splurge. But keep in mind that often the days pre-children are the easiest to save money for the future. Once kids come, things get very expensive very quickly.
Define kedusha Mod80.
My husband proposed on the beach at sunrise. He spoke a lot about starting our life new. A fresh start. About building a family and a Torah home.
I thought sunrise was fitting for that.
Why would a young married couple need a housekeeper?
Wolfish, I think she’s proposing eliminating the actual question between the two parties.
I have a wonderful life right here. I have a great time with my family and friends. I love it. I am 100% content if I don’t travel.
But, I love traveling too. I love seeing the amazing things Hashem has put around the world. Its hard to explain how much you can connect to Hashem by seeing the great wonders of the world.
oomis, it was still the name she was given at birth. It is HER name.
Thank you GAW.
Interesting to use ED for eating disorder. That’s not its usual meaning.
I kept my last name! Woohoo, another YWN no-no.
To those quoting Rav Ovadia – do you/your wives wear sheitels?
My kids have my husbands last name.
If anyone is interested in my reasoning, there were a few:
1) My father has no sons, so I wanted to keep up the name a little longer
2) It requires a ton of paperwork change and I hate paperwork
3) We got married while in college. We were in the same classes, same friends, same professors….I needed my own name. Now its on my degree, it doesn’t make sense to change
4)I am rather attached to my name – I don’t like my first name, but I do like my last name
5)And most importantly, I really don’t like my husband’s last name. No one can pronounce it and everyone thinks he’s chinese. I need at least one name I like.
DH, I think you misunderstood my first point. The poor, starving people are people that I know. They are standing in front of me. I give what I can, but I don’t have that much I can spare. Unless you think the next time I see a poor starving child, I say “a donation has been made in your honor to XYZ Kollel?”
As to mesiras nefesh – I do agree that the families have a lot of mesiras nefesh. The Kollel man does not. An adult man needs some basic nutrients to survive as a decently healthy adult. A growing child or a pregnant/nursing woman needs a lot more nutrients to survive healthily in the long term. And that’s not a “kollel” thing – I know a lot of poor people. People who can’t afford food on their table, people for whom a ketchup packet given by a friend is a major luxury. People who can’t afford milk for their kids. People who leave the heat on 50 degrees in the frigid winter in NY. People who live in tiny apartments (including studios) with their children and no one has any privacy. But again, this is on the FAMILY, not on the man.
My husband is up at 5 am. I get up at 6 (sorry, I’m pregnant and nursing, I need all the sleep I can get). We are all out of the house at 7. We both come home at 6 pm, feed/bathe the kids and put them to sleep. Then we both start our “second” job – I take care of the house, my husband davens, learns, does chesed etc. We try to get to sleep by 11 pm because I can’t survive on less and my husband has to drive so he needs a decent amount of sleep. Sundays are about davening, learning, chinuch for our kids, chesed etc.
That Kollel family where the husband works in the evening? So he’s working from 8 pm – 10 pm? 2 hours a day? That’s mesiras nefesh?
My FIL works 2 jobs to support his family. He usually wakes up around 3 am. He works for a long time at home, commutes 2-3 hours a day, works about 50-60 hours at his job, comes home and does more work. Forvive me for being unimpressed by the 5 am – 10:30 pm guy. That’s not that abnormal to me.
And not giving to Kollel doesn’t mean supporting Torah. It means not supporting a healthy adult man who is not taking responsibility for his family. I support schools, kiruv organizations…these are all increasing the amount of Torah learned.
Its interesting because my friends in Kollel are telling me how dire the situations in their Kollels are. Many of them haven’t been paid their stipend in months, if at all. Most kollelin are struggling to pay their basic bills, like electricity and water. So yes, they are asking for my money to run. Unfortunately for them, I know too many starving people.
People generally permit that which they themselves do.
These include small lies, small theft (like not paying tax), small bits of lashon hara (I mean, its not really LH right? I can probably try to trick myself into believing that)
DH, maybe you don’t realize how many sick and starving Jews there are. How many people who NEED to be taken care of, not who WANT to be taken care of. I could give away every dollar I have right now and still not take care of the poor, starving kids I know or the sick people or the elderly…why in the world would I give it to a man who is perfectly capable of going out and feeding his family?
Maybe I am missing out on the mesiras nefesh of a Kollel man. It seems like everyone is sacrificing but him. He is obligated (no matter if he works or learns all day) to learn Torah. It is an obligation. It makes it easier for him to fulfill this obligation. It also makes it much easier for him to make minyanim. It makes it easier for him to deal with shabbos, yom tov and chol hamoed. It’s a lot easier to take off a day of Kollel than a day of work. There is no “bein hazmanim” for workers. What is he giving up?
His wife is giving up her right to be supported, and is often running herself ragged trying to raise the kids and work on a tight budget. The children are sometimes missing out on nutritious food or better clothing. Others are giving up money to support kollel families.
Again, if the bitachon of Kollel families is so great, why do they come asking for my money? Its not needed – if they really had bitachon, they would find the money right next to them. Obviously, we all have to live b’derech hateva in addition to our bitachon.
My mother always told me that money was like mun – Hashem gave you what you needed to live. But that didn’t mean she didn’t have to go to work to earn that money. It just meant a windfall usually came with an avenue for the money to go (like unexpected car repairs or whatnot).
Well what is chumros if not halacha?
Actually one of the bigger problems facing us today.
I have no idea. I would assume so since I am NOT fashion savvy at all and I know this.
Do all men know the different types of tie knots? I certainly don’t.
The reason women are more congnisent of abuse is that statistically, men are much more likely to be the abusers than women are.
Pumps – basically shoes with traditional heels
Flats – shoes that are flat on the ground
Wedge – shoes with heels that have no space between the heel and the shoe (sort of looks like a triangle)
Platform shoes – shoes that have an extra flat section at the bottom to raise the height of the overall shoe (this one is tricky because it can be combined with the ones above)
You can say blouse if its a button down shirt.
Now to learn the differnce between pumps, flats etc.
Smoking.
Facebook has some redeeming qualities. Smoking has none.
Smoking is also 100% assur. Facebook is not.
bjjkid, that in and of itself is broadening your views!
Just because you limit what you are going to do, doesn’t make you “narrow.” Its important to learn what others do and apply it to your life as applicable.
If what I posted is not applicable, you just learnt what others do.
Now think of me on your next date and say “What would SJS do” and do the opposite LOL. Now you know you are actually going to think of me haha!
Popa, you can drastically reduce your cholesterol almost immediately. You can reduce your risk for diabetes (or actually reduce your need for medication). You can reduce some things immediately.
I don’t know…something seems off about the story. The train itself doesn’t bother me (I actually enjoy trains LOL).
If she liked him, I think she should give him a second chance. See what happens on the next date.
bjjkid, I understand that. Sometimes learning about a totally different path, opens you up to thinking in new ways. Not that I expect you now to date for 3 years, but you may think “Hmm, lets see how this guy behaves in public.”
Or you may just go on thinking I’m crazy. Either way is ok 😀
Derech Hamelech,
I have absolute bitachon in Hashem, especially with regards to parnassah. I know Hashem gave me the skills, helped me get an education and helps me keep my job. Hashem provide both myself and my husband with jobs that ensure we can raise our family, pay our tuition and provide a solid, stable Torah home.
I’ve heard of the bitachon and hishtadlus equation. Its taught in every school. I think its a misnomer the way its taught – with proper bitachon, you should recognize that Hashem gives you the right avenues to do your hishtadlus. Not that Hashem is going to drop enough money in your lap.
Again, I donate to people that NEED money. If I see (literally or figuratively) a starving child and a Kollel man in front of me, and can only give one, who do I give? The child who may die from lack of food? Or the man who wants to keep learning without supporting his own family? I choose the hungry child.
It happens to be the way I was taught – you give those that need over those that want.
All the men I know who work also learn. They are also supporting the world. But that starving child or that person who can’t afford medical care has a pressing need that the Kollel man does NOT.
I was not making fun of the Tolna Rebbe. I truly think its a brilliant plan. I am being 100% serious. I think the girls requiring an apartment to get married is so wrong. Unfortunately, its hard to break the system. The Tolna Rebbe seems to have found a way to start break the system. I’m sorry you took my post to be making fun of the Tolna Rebbe, it is not.
GAW and Wolf,
I think we are overlooking the brilliance of the Tolna Rebbe. He tells all his followers not to save for an apartment for their daughters. The Tolna chassidim (I assume) want their kids to marry other Tolna chassidim. So as the kids get older, none of the girls will have apartments. If they want to marry within their chassidish sect, they will have to accept no apartment.
Its the start of breaking the ridiculous apartment requirement.
Its truly brilliant.
Derech Hamelech,
First, as I’ve said, learning Torah is NOT a luxury. Sitting all day and learning in Kollel and relying on others to feed your family is a luxury.
While its a nice concept that learning takes care of people, we also have to live within derech hateva. That means I have to do my hishtadlus to take care of my family.
So I choose to give my tzedaka money to the kids who are hungry. To the people who need medical care. To the disabled and the elderly who lack others to help them.
I think the biggest problem with Kollel society today is that they neglect hishtadlus and say “Hashem will provide.” Since Hashem will provide, Kollelim clearly don’t need my money right?
Derech Hamelech,
If you are being supported by others, then Kollel is a luxury. If you are independantly wealthy and supporting yourself, its a luxury you are paying for on your own. Having enough money to support yourself without having to work (and thus being able to learn full time) is a luxury. I’m not sure why this concept is difficult.
Why don’t I support Kollelim? Because there are Jewish children who are starving. There are sick people who need medical care. The guy sitting and learning in Lakewood? A nice luxury, but not a necessity.
I don’t think Y/Z was wrong. It was a choice they made. Often at the expense of others who actually need the money. Every dollar donated to Kollel is a dollar that could be used to help sick, dying people. The money could be spent feeding poor children.
I don’t consider Kollel families “in need.”
bjjkid, I am not yeshivish. I was friends with my husband first, then we dated, then we got engaged…I knew him about 3 years before we got married. So yes, I saw him get angry. You learn a lot about a person from seeing them angry.
Cedarhurst, if you saw the kitchen of restaurants and caterers you may not want to ever eat there. In all seriousness.
And if the kid with the runny nose touches the raw batter, the germs should die out in the oven.
Cedarhurst, if you saw the kitchen of restaurants and caterers you may not want to ever eat there. In all seriousness.
And if the kid with the runny nose touches the raw batter, the germs should die out in the oven.
deiyezooger, I worked for a kosher caterer for many years. I can assure you that the cleanest thing in the kitchen would be equivalent to a 5 year old with a runny nose licking the batter.
DH,
There are time zones. When my husband is at work, someone in E”Y is able to be learning….or Australia…or England. And he is fulfilling Torah obligations by:
1) Fulfilling the terms of his ketubah
2) Applying halacha within his job (including opportunities to do more types of mitzvos he wouldn’t be able to do while in Beis Medrash)
3) Earning money for tzedaka
His time learning may be limited, but his mesiras nefesh for the time spent learning or going to a minyan is much greater. I don’t keep score, so I can’t tell you if his learning is more “valuable” than a guy sitting and learning. I do know that he is living Torah while at work.
As to the enmasse – the current system forces donations of various types (most notably tuition in the US). Sending a few bochurim to yeshiva was affordable. Nowadays, the Kollel system is hard to maintain. Thus people turn to social services (American charity) or gemachim (Jewish charity) or donations from others (often coerced from family).
I don’t support charities that discourage men from supporting their families. That is the Torah way. Kollel lifestyle is a luxury and I would rather support those trying to feed and clothe themselves (and help them as needed) rather than support a luxury. Learning Torah? Mandatory. Kollel? Luxury.
If a Kollel family is having trouble feeding their family, I would try to help the husband get a job. I wouldn’t hand over money (in most cases).
You can support Torah without supporting Kollel.
LOL @ Wolf.
If I am attending someone’s simcha and I trust their kashrus, I trust that the food they are providing is kosher. Unless I have a reason to suspect otherwise.
Ah ok GAW. So that means either collecting in America, or taking out huge gemach loans that should be there for those who have emergencies. Or “settling” on a son-in-law.
guardmytongue,
The flipside is that those in Kollel are more likely to have larger families. So instead of 4 kids in yeshiva, you may have 8. If you live in Lakewood, that’s $40,000/year in tuition.
Your mortgage may be less (lets say $1500/month = $18,000/year) and your groceries may be $1,000/month if you keep it really cheap.
That’s already $80,000/year (after tax money) and there are many, many more expenses.
You would pay your doctor for a checkup, but you wouldn’t pay someone who is sitting and learning for maintaining the world around you?
No, because the men surrounding me are also learning and maintaining the world around us.
As to the Yeshivas in Europe – they were a small percentage of the population. It was affordable for towns to donate or sponsor 1-2 of their bochurim. It wasn’t enmasse the way it is today.
I can’t speak about E”Y too much (I don’t understand the system there), but I do know that in the US, most of Lakewood is living off of social services. Its not a sacrifice when your rent, food and medical insurance is covered and your wife earns a low salary to cover everything else.
I’ve basically stopped donating my money to organizations that perpetuate lifestyles that need charity.
How do you plan to pay for your daughters apartment?
Cedarhurst, everyone gets angry at some point.
I’m already married. To a wonderful husband. He rarely gets angry – but he gets angry. And I am very happy at HOW he gets angry.
You see a lot about a person when they are out in the world. How they interact with others, how their mannerisms are, how competitive they are etc etc etc.
I would never marry a guy just by a hotel lounge date.
I would also never marry a guy who I didn’t see angry. I think seeing how a person reacts negatively is a HUGE impact on how I view the person.
In northern NJ, 4 kids in a local yeshiva will cost you between $60,000-$72,000/year.
Average mortgage+property taxes is around $30,000-40,000/year.
$200,000 might mean you are paying your basic bills, but it could be tight.
Gmail.com
imamother.com
facebook.com
The At Home Site
Babyfit.com
Blogger
Sorry YWN.
Putting aside that I’m already married (to a non-smoker, non-drinker, non-drug user)…
In theory its a deal breaker. But if I met a great guy or I heard of a great guy, it would be something to consider. Also, is he a casual smoker? Like 1-2 times a month when he gets together with some friends or a pack a day-er? Makes a big difference.
I think its easier to compromise on a flaw after you know the person. Many “flaws” (real or imagined) go out the window.
My grandmother used to make gruenkern soup! Also gzetze bonim soup (sorry for butchering the german spelling)
Domestic Engineer = housewife
Aries, sometimes people begin dating to help them with the healing process. Of course they don’t phrase it as such, and they think they are ready to date and get married, but rarely is a woman who is divorced 3 months ready to get married.
yes, it is priceless to raise your children alone, but nothing compares to a house of torah…
bjjkid, this woman wants to stay home with her kids. Why should anyone tell her not to? A working husband doesn’t mean a house devoid of Torah.
BalabustaWoman, there are very yeshivish men out there who want to fulfill the obligation of their ketubah. Its harder to find, but doable. She may have to “settle” on someone who on the external is slightly less Yeshivish, but just as observant. I am not an expert on the levels of yeshivishness.
I recommend she do some research into yeshivas that allow a college or post-secondary education. Or someone who’s father owns a business and will take him in to the business.
Also, she should get some sort of education/job path lined up, as you never know what happens in life. My father died when I was young and my mother’s job saved our family’s life.
Hatzlacha to her! May she get what she wants and be happy, healthy and at peace.
I’m a big fan of our Fusion.
Popa, so you were that weird stalker guy I met in college?