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yekke2:
That is one possible explanation. Another is that Grindelwald was unable to kill his old friend, and that meant either that the fight was drawn out long enough for Dumbledore to cature him, or that that Grindelwald’s lack of conviction negated the power of the wand.
And, on a more general matter, it is interesting how Grindelwald gained mastery of the Elder Wand simply by stealing it.
And the murderous Cossacks wore shtreimels. Firstly, black fedoras were much farther spread in society beyond a group of apostate feminists, and even if what you said was true, who really cares.
Everything I has planned to say has already been said. If Mishpacha truly did promote WZC it should face a stiff backlash. On a more general point, the Mishpacha has a track record of legitimizing institutions that run contrary to Torah life.
LG:
Thanks for clarifying. Now, I hope this comes across in the right way, but as somebody who does not consider themselves naive, and as a pessimist myself, this is a very bleak outlook on the world. And, though I thought I would never say these words, a positive outlook can work wonders. Simply looking for the good in others mean you will invariably find it. I believe that most people are fundamentally good, because one can choose to hold that belief. I know this is thread is meant to be funny, but your post simply stuck out as being quite strong, that’s all. Anyway, sorry if that came across as a bit preachy, just thought I should offer my two cents.
showjoe:
#irony
yekke2:
This question occurred to me whilst mulling over PAA’s excellent question. However, I focused on the actual question at the time, but came up with the exact svorah you mentioned, that the aim of the conqueror must be to defeat their opponent fully, as opposed to any schoolboy duel where both sides are aware that any victory is temporary. I anticipated having to address this as I attempted to deal with the issue about how Harry knew his plane would work, as I wrote in the brackets ‘not that there aren’t any valid questions, simply that the process stands up to scrutiny’. The ‘valid questions’ in this instance would refer to the process of defeating an opponent, and why this would not apply in many other instances of duelling and the like.
As a general point, yekke2, as I said above, what really troubled PAA, and is currently bothering me as a result, is not how the process worked, that it applied to other wands under the defeated opponent’s jurisdiction. That is not the issue at hand, although you have addressed it superbly. The question is how Harry knew the process would apply to a wand he did not physically conquer.
Shopping613:
Firstly, Mazal Tov. Secondly, I’m assuming this was written across two threads because of your goysihe and yiddeshe birthday.
LG:
Just to clarify, and I apologize if I am being obtuse, but do you even partly believe in your first post? Were you being in any way serious? #PoesLaw
S613:
I have to disagree with you there. Nobody was personal, or was in any any way unduly harsh. Everybody was simply requesting that they abstain from being a nuisance, and there is no question that they were being deliberately annoying. And as to your points about the Mods, that is exactly the point. Quite a few posters have made the point that they feel it is an abnegation of duty for those in charge of policing the forum, who generally do a superlative job, to allow this one poster to run havoc and ruin it for everybody else. Because those threads had to be approved. But you are right in saying that we shouldn’t go around accusing people, that is actually quite mean.
And, referring to the pircha PAA bought against yekke2 regarding Grindelwald, if possible I would like to make a similar vort to the one I made a while ago about House-Elves. The act can either be through defeating the previous owner, or physically taking it against their will. And the physical act, like by Grindelwald, negates the need to defeat the owner by force.
But, yekke2, what PAA appears to be questioning in the earlier post referenced above is not the process by which it (Harry gaining mastery of the Elder Wand) works, but how Harry was aware of that process. The process makes sense (not that there aren’t any valid questions, simply that the process stands up to scrutiny), but how did Harry know? And whilst I have made a stab at answering it, it is a very pertinent and difficult question.
I would just like to point out that if what GoGoGo did was run around, pushing good topics into obscurity, wasting peoples time with meaningless rubbish, needlessly start new, stupid threads and generally have a negative impact on everybody else’s CR experience, Patur Aval Assur did exactly the opposite on all those counts. And for that I’d like to thank him.
But my favourite answer to this question is this: So what?
Even if Harry was a foolish 17 year old who was wrong about that, and Voldy was the true master of the Elder Wand, Dumbledore’s plan has still succeeded. For Harry had, at that point, willingly sacrificed himself to defend all the others. This created for the defenders of Hogwarts the same magical protection Harry himself had received from his mother. And as such, Voldermort, free of Horcruxes and possible unable to create another, would be open to any attack from numerous people who he was powerless against, as we see that the body-bind on Neville and the silencing charms all failed to work for that precise reason. So even if Harry’s assumption about the wand was wrong, and he had no mekor, Voldermort was still almost assuredly defeated.
…But the most likely (far from perfect) answer, is that you are partly right. Harry was taking a risk, but not as big a risk as you made out. For if you consider what Harry knows about wands at this point, it is a fair, if not foolproof, assumption.
What we, the reader, and therefore Harry, know when formulating this plan is that wands are not simply blunt catch-all magical tools. There is a deeper component to the wizard/wand relationship, which is one of the first things we find out about magic in the entire series (with Harry’s wand troubles in the first book, if you need the reference). When Harry ‘takes a train’ to face Voldermort, he knows a few key things about wands. Firstly, that there is a bond forged between a wizard and a wand. This bond does not respect time or space, or indeed physical boundaries. And as Harry finds out when he takes multiple wands, they all work. So your question assumes that it is obvious that this should only logically apply to those taken by hand. But what Harry assumes is that it is toileh on the gavra, not the cheifetz. Now, this would be a very brave (read: stupid) assumption to make about an ordinary wand. But what Harry is gleaning knowledge about is the Elder Wand. And the Elder Wand passes on through defeating the previous owner, and therefore from Malfoy. With the Elder Wand it is a much fairer assumption, seeing how it passes on through duels. So defeating him in any context should work.
PAA:
This question prompted me to review that section of the book, as well as any other part that could have given any clue. And so far, this question really stumped me. I cannot think of a satisfactory answer. I only have two that are most likely unsatisfactory. But whatever, here goes…
Firstly is one I really don’t like, but that I don’t think is impossible, if improbable. And that is that Harry went back to Ollivander to double check the rule as far as other wands not physically taken are concerned, and the book didn’t inform the reader as had Harry said it explicitly it may have given away the ending.
Allow me to rephrase: It is wrong for one person to create a nuisance for everybody, for no other reason then to cause a nuisance.
CIJ, you are being far too kind. Not that that isn’t a virtue, and well done in being dan lekaf zchus, but this is not somebody who misunderstands what annoys people. This is obviously a poster who has made a conscious decision to annoy the peaceful users of this site. The fact that they have failed to make a reasonable point yet proves this.
The consensus is, as far as I can tell, that his one-post, ridiculous threads need to be removed, as they are clogging up the system, and this poster should be prevented from causing more trouble. Each of his threads must at some point have been approved, and I’m sorry to have to say this, but that undermines the entire principle of having a moderated forum. I know this sounds harsh, but it is wrong for one person to ruin it for everyone.
yekke2:
As you should know, I welcome the opportunity to field opposing views, so your contrition is unnecessary. I believe I have made myself clear in what is currently the last post on that forum, but I will attempt to answer you as concisely as possible
Firstly, what we are arguing over here is the right to use the word Football in this international forum, and whether the right belongs to the Americans or to the Rest of The World. Amongst themselves they may use whichever term they wish. It is when I am being prevented from using the word I wish to use is what I am arguing against. So I don’t see how anything you have said undermines my central argument.
Which is, as is made clear in the post referenced earlier, that as the ones who coined the language and the ones who were calling the sport which has the official name of Association Football ‘Football’ earlier than the American abomination was ever invented, it is the height of audacity to expect us to vary our speech to accommodate our colonial commoner cousins (Oooh, alliteration).
In simple terms, we’ve been calling it football for longer, so we shouldn’t have to change now. This point does not include any claim to have invented all games that involve a foot and a ball.
And whilst there were other games involving people running with spherical objects, including some that involved kicking, these were distant cousins of the modern game of Association Football. Virtually every significant component of the sport was codified and originated in Britain in the mid nineteenth century. These include the handball, the foul, the offside, the goalkeeper, and the goalposts as we know them. So the British can claim to have invented the sport known as Football, if not the combination of running and balls.
A spinoff of this sport was invented in Rugby School, and was named after it, Rugby Football. A cruder, later American version of this began in the USA around the turn of the century. And as for your point about the ‘Football’ not meaning kicking but being on foot, this appears to be a matter of debate. Nobody is actually sure which it means, but most actually agree with my interpretation. And in the unlikely scenario that you’re right about this, it still doesn’t undermine my central point.
And you obviously did not fully understand my quote of “Being by far the best at it”. I was referring at that point to the English language, not the game of Football.
Anyway, I do feel a bit bad for violating our own dictum and dragging the thread a bit off track #KTCRIM.
Agreed. Perhaps add your ‘Aye’ to the Second Motion of the KTCRIM. Just a suggestion.
YYBC:
I fundamentally agree with you as far as the meaningless topics are concerned, but the point I was making, and still am, is that there are fewer topics that provoke discussion. And good discussions arise from interesting topics and/or disagree. It is not that disagreeing is the ultimate aim, it’s addressing topics that people care about enough and are interested in enough to make their opinions known and discuss them. This does not necessarily mean controversial.
And as for the Harry Potter thread, I disagree completely. The discussion was interesting, fun and involving, so who really cares if it was a bit random. We all enjoyed it, as far as I could tell. And nobody made you take part. I don’t see how it is different from the Discworlder’s Club or that kind of thing. It is a representation from the YWN users of their appreciation for a certain inyan, and I can’t see anything wrong with that.
That anything they eat tastes of dust, and that they derive no enjoyment from their food, only sustenance.
And the main part of this punishment is that they no longer have what to thank the Ribono Shel Oilom for in that respect.
At least, that’s what I recall from Year 2, which is what you would call Second Grade. Or is it third? Whatever, the grade you’re in when you’re 7.
I generally refrain from referring to myself in my posts, but I shall break from tradition in this instance and admit that CIJ’s assumption is correct, and yekke2 is similarly right, I believe I have alluded to this in the past. I don’t know how to link, but I’m sure yekke2 will oblige if he could find the relevant thread. I’ll bump one of the relevant threads just in case. And to clarify, I didn’t make my nationality explicitly clear, merely alluded to it in ways that made it blindingly obvious as to where I come from.
I am going to dredge up this old thread for the purpose of answering a question put to me in a recent thread.
And because I would like to have the last word on this matter.
BTGuy, I don’t know if you are still active in any respect, but I seem to recall answering this question on a separate thread. I will quickly repeat that for your benefit.
Having two names does not make either of them lose their legitimacy. I have no objection to Americans referring to Soccer within their own country, as they have [mis]appropriated the word Football to refer to their inferior form of Rugby, a game that incidentally has no ‘Ball’, which the dictionary defines as being round or at least almost round, and which has no use of the ‘Foot’. But never mind that, amongst themselves they may use whichever term they fancy.
It is when Americans seek to impose their misnomer onto the rest off the world, i.e. the civilised portion who recognise Football/Soccer as a better, more skilful and more enjoyable pursuit, that I take umbrage.
‘Soccer’, as has been pointed out, is a word that stems from the official name of the sport, Association Football. It is basically a slang term for Football. The name of the game is Football, the Association part refers to the particular set of codified rules. So the name actually is Football, and it can also be referred to as Soccer. We choose to refer to it as Football, as is our right both as the ones who got there first and the majority. American Football’s official name is Gridiron Football, the Gridiron referring to the field it is played on, and therefore can be referred to either as American Football, Gridiron (as I have heard it called by Americans) or, amongst Americans, as simply Football.
So your point about Football/Soccer hogging both names, whilst AF only has Football as it’s name, is nonsensical for two reasons. Firstly, as I have said above, even were it true, so what? Why would we change the name we invented, and that is used by the vast majority of the inhabitants of this planet, and got to first, in order to accommodate a country that not only can’t come up with any good sports, it can’t even name them properly. And secondly, your point isn’t correct anyway. AF/Gridiron has plenty of names, more than Soccer/Football even, and therefore can bow to the inevitable and use them when in an international setting such as this forum (if the website wishes to refer to itself as Yeshiva World News then it is only fair it should be international).
And I will not claim for this to be the last word, as you did, to avoid confusion if you are in any way unable to answer.
Whilst we’re dealing with this matter, I wish to propose a second motion to the General Committee of the KTCRIM. This proposal will be true to the stated aim of the group that it is to keep the CR interesting, a side point to which is that it should be free of mindless nonsense that hinders the interesting content.
That is that the Moderators, blessed be they, shall remove, and not merely close, any thread instigated by the banned individual, if it is deemed to be unworthy of discussion or of any merit. This shall apply to any thread that fails to generate a true discussion and/or is self-reverential and/or makes no or little sense.
These shall be removed under the Second Decree of the Keep The Coffee Room Interesting Movement.
Aye
CIJ’s assumption is fair. Our colonial cousins use the crude ‘awesome’ to describe what the civilised english-speaking world would call brilliant. The reasoning for this escapes me, for whilst ‘brilliant’ refers to something of exceptional quality, namely Yekke2’s Abie reference in this instance, ‘awesome’ would imply that I was awestruck, which would be a massive overstatement. This propensity to overstate and exaggerate, so much so that words become divorced from their original meaning, is one of the many ways the Americans have cheapened a language they have no right to defile.
And the colonial commoners also appear to be unable to comprehend the intricacies of spelling, as used by the civilised world for centuries, and therefore spell everything phonetically in an attempt to simplify it, basically dragging it down to their level. This leaves us with abominations such as ‘favor’ or ‘color’. The reasoning for this does not escape me, as it quite blatantly stems from the brashness and lack of depth that typifies American culture.
I hope I nobody takes offence (not offense) at this treatise, as it is primarily intended to entertain. And by the way, have I given any clues away as far as your original question is concerned?
#KTCRIM
*yawn*
Anyway, brooms…
If I recall Quidditch Through the Ages correctly, and I think I do, the broomstick was considered innocuous enough as to not garner attention from Muggles when not in use, but still reasonably useful when in use. Can you suggest any more convenient item? As we know, carpets were also used.
And your question about Azkaban is one that has puzzled me in the past. But not from the defection, but from Sirius’ escape. It says he was thin enough to slip through the bars and inhuman enough (as a dog) to be unaffected, sorry, less affected by the Dementors. It seems amazing that there were no other safeguards. Unfortunately, the only answer that occurs to me is that you’re absolutely right, and there are no other, or minimal protections.
But that I don’t find that difficult. For two reasons. One, except for in Sirius’ case nobody ever escaped, and the only reason he managed it was because he was innocent (if necessary, I’ll explain that), so even without the extra spells it was secure. And if you say that it is shver that security was dependant on the will of the Dementors, well, that leads me on to the second reason. That this is the Ministry we are talking about, naive about the nature of the Dementors and at best complacent, at worst incompetent in general. They would not forsee any defection nor think to place extra safeguards on a system they are happy with.
And anyway, what’s to say there weren’t other safeguards? The Dementors may have only been the main component, but Fudge terms the escapes a ‘breakout’ after the Dementors defected. Which is mashma that there were otherr defences, but with the Dementors onside the Death Eaters managed to succeed. And that Sirius got past these by virtue of being a dog. Either way, I find it interesting but not confusing.
yekke2:
I agree with your complaint. It’s especially annoying when the side point is banal and the main topic isn’t. It can throw a good discussion off course.
But it is worth remembering that it’s not always for the worst. The Harry Potter thread, in my opinion the best in the CR, is really about similarities between yiddishkeit and HP. And then someone mentioned time travel and it all went a bit crazy, and as it veered off track it became something wonderful. But I still agree with your original point.
Newbee:
As the quote goes…
‘Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to sell fish and he eats steak.’
But I think this isn’t applicable in 99% of cases.
Nowadays, the term ‘Reb’ or ‘Rabbi’ is basically the equivalant of, lehavdil, ‘Mr’. And before you point out that ‘Rabbi’ appears to denote semicha or a position, the term ‘Mister’ was originally only used to address one of superior status, but in modern times is basically a catch-all honorific. I believe it is not unreasonable that the same applies to ‘Rabbi’. And if you wish to challenge this cheapening of the title, may I just point out that it is far better address a Mr as a Rabbi than a Rabbi as a Mr.
And if you were to argue that this leaves no suitable terms for those who deserve them, two points. Firstly, that the term Rabbi as a title, certainly in my community, is reserved for actual Rabbis in any official context, such as on letters or posters. And secondly, that Harav or similar is generally used with what we nowadays call semicha.
LOL, Brilliant. There’s nothing like some good old Abie. I am very much in favour of tying in various Journeys’ songs to different subjects. So that’s one to look into.
Several points. Firstly, I am not suggesting starting an argument, merely continuing one. This is generally more fun, as it allows one to nitpick, much the same as I am currently doing.
And in the same vein, CoffeeAddict, aren’t you in danger of starting an argument here? So in keeping with your own dictum, I’ll steer away from disagreeing too strongly. But, if it isn’t too controversial, the answer to your question is Yes, I derive great pleasure from it.
And regarding Y2’s point regarding arguing – sorry, disagreeing amicably – online, I believe it has one strong advantage, that it enables the participants to be far more concise and to the point than in real life, where there is a much higher likelihood of getting sidetracked.
But of course, none of that is what I actually think.
Agreed. Some of the threads yekke2 linked to are brilliant. Bring back the arguments! The only true disagreement currently trending is the whole vaccination debate, and that just doesn’t do it for me. And all the other threads are about tragedies. Not that these aren’t important, but couldn’t we spice it up a bit? I think it’ll be a good idea just to find an old argument and restart it.
‘A good shmuz (Mussar drosho) lasts till supper – if you’re lucky, till Ma’ariv’
And the other way round in the winter
Quick side point. Why when some Arabs burn an American flag do you lot go, ‘They’re burning our flag!’. They didn’t fly over there and steal it off the top of the Capitol. They went down to a corner shop and bought one. So they’re burning their flag.
It probably depends on the audience, and the father’s preference. I can’t imagine there’s a wrong answer. But if others can bring proof to the contrary as to what is the ikker…
That’s what I want to know.
Lol. But you know what I meant.
I may not be Sam2, but…
Once upon a time, there was a Posek who made an Al Hamichya on Quinoa.
The End
Yekke2:
Yes. Although do you know where this story comes from?
I assume you are referring to Rabbeinu Gershom Me’or Hagolah, who lived around 150 years before the CLifford’s Tower massacre.
Unluckily, you must have pre-empted my explanation. Just to reclarify, yes, smoking is dangerous, ossur and wrong. It would take a bit too long to explain, but the above post was completely out of context, as Syag guessed (never agreed more with the verse his name alludes to).
As far as the above comment is concerned, I would just like to clarify that my personal opinion on smoking tallies with Y2’s. It is dangerous, wrong and of course, ossur. Unfortunately, many start before they are old enough to appreciate the risk and/or lie to themselves about the obvious dangers, such as ignoring the obvious correlation between smoking and disease, as Y2 pointed out. The above comment was a mispost.
No. Because as far as I am aware, there has never been a cheirem officially put on York. And this makes sense, seeing how if York was in cheirem, so would London, Paris, Warsaw, Vilna, Chevron or basically anywhere where they had a pogrom.
Of course, it is entirely possible that somebody will find a source, in which case I defer to actual evidence, as opposed to hearsay.
And lived forever
Yekke2, aleichem sholom! Zman was great. Pity you missed it.
Alright, yekke2, we get the hint.
And, just to second that, ‘The Boy Who Yid’, to give it it’s actual name, is a very strong, funny and original piece of fan-fiction. It has some lines that are simply hilarious, and the premise is fantastic, especially in light of JKR’s recent revelations, see above.
But of course, we must bear in mind that this fawning praise only really applies if we treat it as what it is, a good, clever piece of fan-fiction. Were we to subject it to the same scrutiny we repeatedly apply to the original, we would need a new thread. For a start…
Why is Yehuda so mindful of his English birthday? Why is McGonagall so woefully under-prepared? Why is Yehuda’s Hogwarts letter slightly different to Harry’s? As Y2 mentioned above, why is kosher food and Yom Kippur given such low priority? And why does Yehuda contact home less often then your average bochur, especially when you consider that he is very young, in a totally alien environment, and that setting up the Floo Network for his benefit would be incredibly easy (although his parent’s might not be permitted to use it).
And these are just small niggles. The central idea of the story, that Yehuda must go for the sake of safety, is shaky at best. Even if Rebbe Zeller’s explanation is correct, and I personally find it very weak, there is no reason why they could not have him tutored. All he really requires is the ability to control his abilities and stay hidden and safe. They could easily hire a tutor for that, or more, if permitted. I believe a certain Professor Lupin may be available?
But all these questions have the same answer: Required for plot. And I’m fine with that. Which only serves to remind us of the superlative quality of JKR’s work, that it can stand up to the sort of scrutiny any other series would crumble under, as evidenced by this thread.
Duke
Yep. Beethoven’s 9th Symphony, 125, well done
I would post more but I’m afraid I’ve gotta go.
This is annoying. Just as I have to leave the thread turns interesting. Going to take an extended leave of absence, so if everybody could just assume I disagree with them, especially yekke2, that would be great. So long.
Duke