simcha613

apers- you say that ???? doesn’t override ????? ???? That may not be true. When the ???”? argues on the ???”? and says that ???? ??? ????? is one of the ???”? ?????, he actually uses the phrase ????? ????- that ???? ??? ????? and ????? ??? ????? are connected. Now, a ????? ???? definitely overrides ????? ??? as there are few things more life threatening than fighting a war… and if ???? ??? ????? is part of a ????? ????, that might mean it also overrides ????? ???.

I have heard the argument that kollel should not be limited for only the elite learners because learning Torah is about quality not quantity. It’s not about how much you know or how smart you are, it’s about your effort… that’s what you get sechar for. People who say that learning should only be for the elite are closing the door on those who aren’t as smart but willing to put in as much, or more, effort in learning… and that can’t be.

IMHO, that argument is false and misleading. Yes, it is true that the true sechar comes from effort and not amount of Torah… however there is a ma’amar Chazal that says “if a person says he tried and succeeded (in learning), believe him. But if a person says that he tried and didn’t succeed, don’t believe him”. We have a promise that when we put effort in learning, we will succeed. If a person is of the age to learn in kollel, and isn’t successful enough to be considered elite, it demonstrates that he has not put in as much effort as those who really are elite. Those who are elite are also the ones who have put the most effort in Torah.

WIY- a kol korei won’t stop WOW either. The kol korei isn’t for the violaters, it’s for the tzibur to step up efforts to stand up to such people to ensure that their crimes don’t happen again, or just to make a public outcry that we are enemies of those who violate G-d who do such acts.

PBA- what do you mean that Hashem doesn’t act this way with us? According to R’ Aisenstark (at least the way I understand it), at some point you can’t show your child unconditional love (that doesn’t mean you don’t have it) and you must kick him out of the home. At some point, when we reached a low level, Hashem hid his face from us, and kicked us out of our home.

Personally, I’m against gay marriage… but I hear the other side. The fact is, the only reason we know gay marriage to be immoral is because the Torah tells us. If it wasn’t for the Torah, nowadays, in our society, most of us would probably be pro-gay marriage. Now since we have the Torah we think it’s wrong… but if we would recognize that without Torah, we would probably agree with the pro gay marriage platform, how could we expect others to accept an anti-gay marriage platform without Torah? As immoral as we believe it to be, we only believe it to be immoral because the Torah tells us. How could we impose our religion on others? If we could impose our religion on others, what’s stopping them from imposing their religion on us?

I’ve always had an issue with women working in order to support their husbands in learning. Women ideally aren’t supposed to work. They’re supposed to be full time mothers. Kol kevudah bas melech penimah- tznius seems to say that a woman should be living her life in private, not in public. Now, if a woman decides to work because of her menuchas hanefesh (she can’t be in the house all day) or because her husband’s salary isn’t enough to provide for the family, that’s one thing. There is no issur for a woman to work, it’s just a hashkafic issue. I don’t think this hashkafic issue is a reason for a woman to live with less menuchas hanefesh or in poverty (assuming no actual halachos are broken).

Working to support a husband in learning is different though. Talmud Torah is not just an ends in and of itself, it’s also a means to an end. The end being living a life of more Avodas Hashem. Talmud Torah is supposed to make us (and our families) better ovdei Hashem. It doesn’t seem like we’re suppose to make concessions in our Avodas Hashem, and our (or our wife’s) tznius in order to learn Torah. That seems to be backwards. Talmud Torah is supposed to lead to a life of greater tznius, not the other way around.

playtime-

Not a good comparison. No candidate is a missionary for “toeivah” values either. No one is trying to convert the heterosexuals into homosexuals.

Toi- didn’t the Rambam look up to Aristotle? I thought the Rambam said that Aristotle was one level below nevuah.

Shalomtoyou-

I think you mean live and let die.

But seriously, I don’t think live and let live is a Jewish concept. Kol Yisrael areivim zeh bazeh- we are responsible for each other. If someone is in physical or spiritual danger (and with smoking it may be both- dangerous and halachically assur) then it is our responsibility to try and help our fellow Jew.

Also, having a debate on whether a particular action is assur or mutar is something we do all the time in other areas of halachah. We don’t say live and let live, but we try to uncover the truth. I don’t think we should pretend to not care about the halachic ramification of smoking just because it’s a sensitive topic.

Toi-

Not sure if you’re serious or not… but if you are, I don’t think that’s what the Shulchan Aruch meant. The S”A clearly says that women receive reward for learning. I don’t think Adam received reward from eating the Eitz HaDaas.

Rationalfrummie-

It doesn’t sound like it’s a bedieved. S”A opens up with they receive sechar and only then says that it shouldn’t be taught. If sechar was only if they learned bedieved, I would have expected the S”A to begin with that it shouldn’t be taught to them and only then mention but if they do they still receive reward because it’s Torah.

Beniguman- That’s how I understand it. Since they aren’t obligated to do it and some aren’t able to it properly, it shouldn’t be imposed on them. However, a woman who is capable and wants to do it (for lishmah reasons, not feminist ones) can and should learn (as long as it’s not coming at the expense of areas of Torah that she is chayav to learn).

This is a question for posters on all sides of this “machlokes:”

If following years and years of an enemy government occupying the Old City of Yerushalayim and not allowing Jews to even enter, a non-Jewish army miraculously defeated our enemy, took control of Jerusalem, and let Jews return to the Old City of Jerusalem to live and serve G-d there, would we be celebrarting that day as Yom Yerushalayim? Is there necessarily a relationship between Yom Yerushalayim and the Medinah?

As much as it would be nice to win the lottery, it would probably be a curse in disguise. G-d punished the snake that he would have to eat the dust of the earth. It doesn’t seem like a punishment as there is so much dust, the snake will never go hungry. The punishment is that G-d is telling the snake, I don’t want you bothering me for parnassah, I don’t want a relationship with you, take your food and go. Winning the lottery (at least a lottery that would give you enough $$$ for the rest of your life), is kind of like that.

Torah- the common factor is simple, things that a man shouldn’t walk in between. I have no idea why and I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a different reason for all three.

HaKatan- I understand most of the opposition to Religious Zionism but the Avodah Zarah part is beyond me. From what I understand on a very simple level (based on Wikipedia), Religous Zionism is the support of a building of a Jewish State in the Land of Israel. This is something that all of Klal Yisroel believes in, at the very least, when Moshiach comes. We all believe that after Moshiach comes we will have a Jewish State in the Land of Israel. I don’t understand how a concept is Avodah Zarah in pre-Moshiach times, but Avodas HaShem in post-Moshiach times. It’s either Avodah Zarah or it’s not.

In my mind, Yom HaAtzmaus is a day where I express my hakaras hatov for all the good that He has given us through the medinah similar to the way I view July 4 as a day to express hakaras hatov for the good that He has given us through the founding of the USA. Are there bad things that have happened (and that are currently happening) because of the Medina? Of course. But that’s not a reason to ignore the good and to deny hakaras hatov to HKB”H. Some of the good being that there are probably more Jews and more Torah in Eretz Yisroel since the fall of Beitar. I don’t think everyone has to do this on Yom HaAtzmaus, I just find this day meaningful for that goal because it was the beginning of the medina, but I do think everyone should recognize the good that has come from the Medinah and express gratitude towards Hashem for its founding.

The Gemara talks about metzitzah for health reasons. The Gemara also mentions bathing the baby in warm water for health reasons. Poshu pshat is there is no difference among the two, and just like we no longer bathe the baby in warm water because we don’t believe it to necessarily be healthy for the baby, we shouldn’t have to do metzitzah either if we don’t believe it’s healthy for the baby.

Some poskim however claim, that for reasons I don’t understand, metzitzah has become part and parcel of the mitzvah while bathing has not, therefore metzitzah must be done even if it no longer has known health benefits.

My question is, to the best of my knowledge, no where does the Gemara or the early rishonim say that metzizah has to be done directly with the mouth. Metzitzah just means to suction out the blood. It was done then directly with the mouth because their keilim weren’t sophisticated enough. What is the source that when the Gemara says metzitzah it must be done directly with the mouth and that the suctioning cannot be done with a tube? From the health perspective, it seems that both would accomplish the same goal, so why aren’t both valid ways of fulfilling this detail?

Are there Achronim that resolve the contradiction? I always thought that most understood that Rambam pshuto kemashmao, that you’re not allowed to take money for Torah (which includes learning Torah, teaching Torah, being the Rav of a community). Most argue with the Rambam, saying no one become Rabbonim if that were the din, but I didn’t realize there are those who try and reinterpert the Rambam. The Rambam in Hilchos TT only says they are potur from serving in the army, it says nothing of them being supported.