simcha613

mentsch- so then this exoctic halachic dinner was absolutely appropriate as many of these foods are probably a one time thing.

Daas Yochid- that’s exactly Newbee’s objections. And since these people are (and I quote) “very wealthy MO BTs who love expensive food and Rov Joseph Ber Soloveitchik (in that order)- “, pashtus is that dan lechaf zechus doesn’t apply, they’re obviously reshaim and avaryanim who are using the Torah to rationalize their bottomless stomachs, and we must assume that they are the lowest common denominator. Not only that, but the mitzvah of hocheiach tochiach es amisecha requires us to criticize them anonymously in a public forum that they probably don’t read because obviously loshon hara and possibly motzi sheim ra doesn’t apply to these beheimos.

Newbee- Let me be clear. I understand your point. You’re criticizing that they’re trying to pretend that their ta’avah is a mitzvah. I think that’s a very cynical and unnecessarily judgmental way of looking at it because you could just as easily argue that they are trying to turn their ta’avah into a mitzvah.

Newbee- so you’ve never eaten at a nice restaurant? you’ve never eaten anything other than bread and water outside the context of a seudas mitzvah? Maybe you’re just as bad as them!

That is chapter 15 in Mesilas Yesharim, most people have to work on zehirus and zerizus before you make them feel guilty over the higher levels. Not everyone is as holy as you are, and shouldn’t jump stages in the Mesilas Yesharim so that they meet your standards of tzidkus.

I wonder if peacock is kosher. I know there’s no Mesorah for it, but mistama it’s still kosher. We know the Biblical word for peacock because the Queen of Sheba gave peacocks to Shlomo Hamelech as a gift, and it is not one of the non-kosher birds listed in Yayikra.

Jewish Thinker- and there are many good arguments how they are no longer binding or how they were never binding. That’s why it’s a machlokes and that’s exactly my point. It’s a machlokes about an obscure Gemara that’s not even brought down lehalachah by the Rosh, Rambam, Rif, or Shulchan Aruch. There are many machlokes in halachah and hashkafah and yet none seem to be as polarizing as this. It’s ironic that the focal point of Zionism usually happens on Yom HaAtzmaus, where we remember how the students of R’ Akiva were punished for not treating each other respectfully. Calling a person who doesn’t say Hallel on Yom HaAtzmaus a heartless sonei Yisroel, or calling someone who does say Hallel on Yom HaAtzmaus a kofer or an apikores (I know I’m speaking in extremes here) seems to be completely the opposite the nature of sefirah. We are disrespecting two legitimate streams of halachic Judaism. Can’t we recognize that this is but a small detail in our Avodas Hashem and admit that there is halachic basis to each side? Can’t we discuss halachah without the poisonous rhetoric?

Joseph-

I guess I shouldn’t have used that terminology. I don’t disagree with the Tiferes Shlomo. I am clarifying what I think he meant. To argue the other side meant to be an argument on those who understand it differently.

His one example is that Klal Yisroel followed Moshe Rabeinu’s “absurd” military advice. I don’t know if Moshe Rabeinu was a military expert (I wouldn’t be surprised if he was), and he was using his Da’as Torah plus his military expertise to make a decision, but even if he wasn’t a military expert, if anyone can extract military expertise from their pure unadulterated Torah knowledge, it would be Moshe Rabeinu. I don’t know if that can be extended to any talmid chacham.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Tiferes Shlomo would agree that one is not lacking emunas chachamim if he doesn’t listen to the business advice of a talmid chacham who has no business experience.

What would be the category of the gedolim of our generation like R’ Kanievsky or R’ Shteinman? I have no idea. I have no idea if their Torah knowledge is great enough to be able to extract information that they have absolutely no expertise in like medicine. But I doubt that anyone other than the upper echelon of Talmidei Chachamim nowadays has the capacity to give advice in an area that they know nothing about, regardless of how much Torah they know.

Isn’t there a Mishnah in Berachos that lists examples of tefilos shav? If I’m not mistaken, one of the examples is davening for a specific gender of a child when a woman is pregnant. The implication is, is that once a woman is pregnant, even though no one knows the gender of the baby, it’s still a tefilos shav to daven for a gender that has already been determined, and it would be a neis to change it. By extension, I would say that seeing a doctor does not change the teva. If a physical reality exists, it exists, whether you know about it or not, and it would be a neis to change it, whether it is recognized or not.

Hakantan- “But since you mention it, and with all due respect, since your faith claims that the Zionist enterprise is “aschalta diGeulah” the RZ, liChaOrah, aren’t praying for the true geulah, but rather that it should be “completed” after its decades-long “start”. “

It seems that two signs of the geulah are the return of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (kibbutz galuyos) and the physical restoration of the Land. Unless you think that all of the Jews in Israel will have to leave, and that Israel will have to become desolate again before Mashiach comes, it’s hard to argue that the geulah has not started.

Little Froggie- you misinterpret lesschumras. He wasn’t saying scholars don’t cause benefit. And he wasn’t ridiculing them either. He was pointing out that there is no source that says Torah provides ABSOLUTE protection, and clearly, historically, it has not provided absolute protection… and he was explaining that to those who claim otherwise.

Israel cannot keep the Palestinians as permanent second class citizens. They really only have two choices, make them citizens of Israel or give them a Palestinian state. No one wants them to be citizens so there should be a Palestinian state.

However, Israel is under no obligation to give them the entire West Bank. Palestine has no historical borders so there is no land to “return” to them. What should be done, and I think what sort of has been done in the past, is Israel needs to offer them a state which comprises say about half of the West Bank carved out in such a way that most if not all of the Jewish communities remain part of Israel. Any Palestinians “stuck” in Israel would become full citizens of Israel and any Jews “stuck” in the new Palestinian state would become full equal citizens in the new state. And if the new Palestinian state would commit act of terrorism against Israel, that would be an act of war by a sovereign nation and Israel should blow them out of the water.

As long as the Palestinian leadership won’t take anything less than the entire West Bank, then the Palestinians won’t get a state, and the only ones to blame are their own leadership.

simcha613- not to mention that what Sam says is correct. There isn’t that much of a difference between the frum Modern Orthodox and the Yeshivish.

EretzHaK- You answered your own question. They protested it because it dealt with it publicly. BUT, it was not trying to legitimize homosexuality as a way of life. They were trying to legitimize homosexuals as people and make people understand the struggles they go through.

Didn’t R’ Shach oppose Chabad very strongly? Didn’t the Gra oppose Chassiudus? When do we write off entire sects of Judaism because some Gedolim oppose them?

HaKatan- I am no expert in R’ Lamm’s writings, but if he did indicate that, it was not meant halachah lema’aseh. He did not make birchas haTorah upon enetering a science lab. If he indicated that, he meant as a hyperbole to demonstrate how valuable science is, but it is not equitable. Even according to R’ Lamm.

Here’s how it will play out- Bayit Yehudi, Yisraal Beiteinu, and Yachad will sit with Likud. The Arab parties, and Meretz will sit with Labor. UTJ/Shas, Yeish Atid, and Kulanu will be up in the air. Whoever gets 2 of those 3 will get the coalition. Since UTJ/Shas will not sit with Yeish Atid, whoever gets Kulanu will win.

KJ Chusid- Both bad and good can be attributed to medinah, but that doesn’t mean we can ignore being makir tov for the good. You listed some of the bad things, but you cannot deny the main good that medinah has brought: there are more Jews and more Torah in Eretz Yisreol than since probably the fall of Beitar. I think that is something priceless and we owe the medinah a tremendous amount of hakaras hatov for that fact alone.

yybc- “And no one said going to the Yankee game is muttar. ” Who said it was assur?

Speaking of shomer negiah, I was under the impression that it is an issur d’orays (lo sikrevu legalos ervah). If so, how come Yaakov Avinu kissed Rochel Imeinu before they married? It is clearly derech chibah. I know that they didn’t necessarily keep the Torah outside of EY, but usually there was a reason.

DY- Saying that a woman is allowed to learn but a woman is not allowed to be taught is essentially saying she’s not allowed to learn. You can’t learn anything, especially Gemara, without a teacher. If she is allowed to learn when she wants to learn, then obviously she is allowed to be taught. Saying otherwise is illogical

DY- I’m not sure if I understand. Why is it only assur for men to teach women certain subjects? If there’s a problem with men teaching women, it should be a problem in all subjects. If there’s a problem with the subject matter, than it should be assur whoever teaches it. I don’t get the logic that it’s assur for men to teach women only certain subjects.

DY- I apologize for making that assumption, but then what is the “classical” way of understanding that S”A?